Jump to content

$1000 fine for fueling at the wrong pump


10ponies

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 182
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Here's how Arizona law defines the gross weight issue:

"1. "Declared gross weight" means the gross weight in pounds ascribed to a motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer or vehicle combination by the applicant for registration."

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/28/05431.htm

And to further clarify it:

"2. "Declared gross weight" has the same meaning prescribed in section 28-5431. If a declaration has not been made, declared gross weight means gross weight."

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/28/05201.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have fueled at the auto diesel pumps in AZ whenever I can and have had no problems -- yet. After reading this thread and seeing that a $1000 fine was assed on and RV, I'm going to spend the extra few $ and use only the truck pumps when AZ. It's not worth the risk, especially since our MH has a tag and the GVW is over 26,000.

 

I'll just consider I'm giving up two cups of Starbuck's coffee every time I fill up in AZ.

 

Chet

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10ponies,

 

Did they actually issue you a citation? Or just say that they would mail it to you? The reason that matters is that AZ requires personal service, and automatically dismisses after 120 days if you haven't been served. It's why red light and speed cameras collect at such low rates--people are wising up to the rules of AZ courts.

 

I still think it's pretty clear the tax (and penalty) don't apply to you, provided you weren't in fact operating commercially:

 

Starting with 28-5606:

 

2. A use fuel tax is imposed on use fuel used in the propulsion of a use class motor vehicle on a highway in this state at the rate of twenty-six cents for each gallon, except that there is no use fuel tax on alternative fuels and use class vehicles that are exempt pursuant to section 28-5432 from the weight fee prescribed in section 28-5433 are subject to the use fuel tax imposed by paragraph 1 of this subsection.

 

Paragraph 1 is the motor fuel tax:

In addition to all other taxes provided by law, a tax of eighteen cents per gallon is imposed on motor vehicle fuel possessed, used or consumed in this state.

 

So now we go to 28-5432:

 

28-5432. Gross weight fees; application; exceptions

A. This article applies to all of the following:

1. A trailer or semitrailer with a gross weight of ten thousand pounds or less and that is used in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise.

2. A motor vehicle or vehicle combination if the motor vehicle or vehicle combination is designed, used or maintained primarily for the transportation of passengers for compensation or for the transportation of property.

3. A hearse, an ambulance or any other vehicle that is used by a mortician in the conduct of the mortician's business.

4. A commercial motor vehicle as defined in section 28-5201.

 

The intent for the additional tax to apply to commercial vehicles becomes even more clear when you get into the sections allowing for a refund of this tax if the fuel is used out of state, and applies it to fuel brought into the state. It's a tax on the use of fuel in the state, not the purchase of it. The motor fuel tax applies to purchase, use, and possession, and is the $0.18/gal rate that, in my opinion, you should have been charged. The sticker on the pump is required by law, but it doesn't have any bearing on what the law is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's how Arizona law defines the gross weight issue:

 

"1. "Declared gross weight" means the gross weight in pounds ascribed to a motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer or vehicle combination by the applicant for registration."

 

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/28/05431.htm

 

And to further clarify it:

 

"2. "Declared gross weight" has the same meaning prescribed in section 28-5431. If a declaration has not been made, declared gross weight means gross weight."

 

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/28/05201.htm

Dutch, thanks for the clarification of AZ law. I was wrong. How silly that you could simply drop the trailer in the truck stop parking lot, go fill your vehicle and come back over and re-hitch. It probably wouldn't be worth the headache for such a few dollars but as I said before, those with larger fuel tanks will simply avoid fueling AZ and not give them ANY fuel tax.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You fuel where you need fuel. Taxes here or taxes there really don't make much difference. If you are towing at the time you fuel and your total weight exceeds 26,000# I would suggest that you fuel at the truck pumps and pay the (exorbitant .08 cents) tax. If you pull in with a 2 axle dually disconnected from any other vehicle I would (by that I mean me and not you) fuel at the RV pumps. Understand that if you have a P/FJ RV card, you can use it at either location and pay the reduced fee if you swipe the card. If you don't feel right, don't swipe the card. If you think you are within the law, do swipe the card.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have lived in Arizona for over 10 years. I have fueled my 2012 F350 at the regular pumps for 3 years both with and with out the 5th wheel. Arizona DOT had been at the stations several times. Never a second look as I fueled at the regular pumps. This is just my experience, and with the exception of the original post, I haven't seen any responses other than opinions on what might happen, but not actual experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys I would say within the next 5 years or so. We will be paying the same road tax as commercial trucks. As the Government is at all the miles were putting on the road system. But not paying the taxes that commercial trucks have to pay. Just hope it does not come down to each of use having to keep up with the miles in each state, Then if we did not buy fuel in that state have to pay the taxes for fuel we should have bought in each state.

I know we all hate paying more taxes. But next time your thinking man this road is rough why don't so and so state fix it? Remember your fuel tax Dollars should be paying to fix it. But if your not paying it they can't fix it. That is unless the feds keep it all for themselves as there doing now. Tn for one is not getting there fuel taxes from the Fed's. So our roads are falling apart. How many years can we go without repairs before we have no good roads left?

I heard last month through a person that was at the meeting in Nashville, That Tn is looking into more taxes for everything that is using road fuel. And they may well make RV's pay the extra that commercial pay now.

Pete

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trying to stay non-political but if you check, the state portion of the gasoline tax is larger than the Federal piece.

 

In 5 years, we may have a miles traveled based taxing system based upon GPS modules. That is a way to get electric cars to contribute to the road they travel like everyone else.

 

The miles travel could be tweaked for the weight on the vehicle, heavier vehicles cause more road wear.

 

Whatever tax system used, we need to get back to applying the taxes collected for using roads (gas, tolls) to the roads and not other great ideas for a better world. The gasoline and other road taxes are excise taxes that were passed only for the basis of betterment for the people paying the taxes. I.e. roads not museums and bike paths.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pete, RV'ers don't put near the same mileage on the road as commercial trucks. That is why personal vehicles do not have to track mileage in states other than the one they reside in. Visitors pay usage tax via fuel purchases in that state. When states like AZ charge big RV'ers extra,(as in more than other PERSONAL vehicles) then the big RV's are simply not going to buy fuel in AZ. That is Arizona's loss, not their gain. And as Mark pointed out, state fuel tax is much greater than the federal taxes. The people in TN might want to ask where their tax money is being spent, because the fuel tax doesn't get sent to the feds and then come back to TN. That tax was paid in TN, and stayed in TN. You can't blame the feds for your road issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pete, RV'ers don't put near the same mileage on the road as commercial trucks. That is why personal vehicles do not have to track mileage in states other than the one they reside in. Visitors pay usage tax via fuel purchases in that state. When states like AZ charge big RV'ers extra,(as in more than other PERSONAL vehicles) then the big RV's are simply not going to buy fuel in AZ. That is Arizona's loss, not their gain. And as Mark pointed out, state fuel tax is much greater than the federal taxes. The people in TN might want to ask where their tax money is being spent, because the fuel tax doesn't get sent to the feds and then come back to TN. That tax was paid in TN, and stayed in TN. You can't blame the feds for your road issues.

 

Not sure about that. Gallon for gallon (that's where the tax is based) if a 26,000# truck drives 500 miles and a 26,000# RV both drive 500 miles they did the same amount of damage to the same amount of road but the trucker has to pay more tax. At the 26,001# mark they both pay the same but the trucker might be as much as 4 times heavier than the RV but at least they make a bit of that upfrom the extra damage by the heavier RV. The trucks just have to keep refilling (paying more tax) and the RV gets to park. If it were truly far there would be an escalating tax but not at the pump. You would need to have your vehicle odometer certified and verified at least annually and you would pay a rate based upon mileage and weight. Wow! I just created a whole new Governmental agency!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trying to stay non-political but if you check, the state portion of the gasoline tax is larger than the Federal piece.

 

In 5 years, we may have a miles traveled based taxing system based upon GPS modules. That is a way to get electric cars to contribute to the road they travel like everyone else.

 

The miles travel could be tweaked for the weight on the vehicle, heavier vehicles cause more road wear.

 

Whatever tax system used, we need to get back to applying the taxes collected for using roads (gas, tolls) to the roads and not other great ideas for a better world. The gasoline and other road taxes are excise taxes that were passed only for the basis of betterment for the people paying the taxes. I.e. roads not museums and bike paths.

 

 

X2 and a great big thank you Mark

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Not sure about that.

How are you not sure, Bill? What I said was " RV'ers don't put near the same mileage on the road as commercial trucks. " Which part of that are you unsure of?

 

Weight alone is not what damages a road. Weight and USAGE damage the road. Drive 80,000 lb's down an asphalt road ONCE and you will not create a single pot hole. Drive it down that same the same road 10 times a day for 6 months and the road will be fairly trashed. My RV doesn't put the same mileage on a road as a commercial truck. FACT. My RV also doesn't carry the weight that a comparable sized commercial truck does, normally . Also FACT. You are trying to compare apples to apples, but in real life that won't work. This is an apple to orange comparison. There are always the exceptions to the rule, but the average RV will do less damage to the road than the average commercial truck. And as I said, THAT is why personal vehicles do not have to track their mileage in other states, like a commercial vehicle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read all of this and I'm still confused. My solution. Since AZ doesn't make it clear at the pumps then I will not go to AZ. Nothing there I need to see anyway. Too many other places to go see. Like I often say... My money, My choice. If that bothers anyone... Tough Taters. I'm confused enough without being confused as to which fuel pump to use.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Lostinaz

Well, their intent was to charge use fuel trucks eight cents more then POVs.

I was there buying fuel when this law took effect. That made Arizona's tax per gallon 26 cents.

Under IFTA, you are supposed to calculate your fleet average mpg, divide that into miles driven in Arizona,

then pay Arizona 26 cents per gallon burned, even if you did not buy fuel in Arizona. All the states in IFTA are like that .

With Texas's tax rate only 20 cents, and the fuel cheaper, it paid to not buy any fuel in Arizona. In the long run, it hurt fuel sales in Arizona.

 

This thread concerns a rather isolated incident of over zealous enforcement at the Quik Trip in Phoenix..

It was unfortunate, I hope the original poster gets out of the fine.

Even though I live in Arizona I never buy fuel here, so they won't have any chances to mess with me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

RVers Online University

campgroundviews.com

Our program provides accurate individual wheel weights for your RV, toad, and tow vehicle, and will help you trim the pounds if you need to.

All the water you need...No matter where you go

Country Thunder Iowa

Nomad Internet

Rv Share

Dish For My RV.

RV Air.

Find out more or sign up for Escapees RV'ers Bootcamp.

Advertise your product or service here.

The Rvers- Now Streaming

RVTravel.com Logo



×
×
  • Create New...