Car & Driver rates the EV

[bruce t]

RV can't you see the irony?

 

[duraduk]

I don't have a problem with EV's.  I have a problem with the govt. putting pressure on the free market.  Let the consumer decide what they can and want to buy.  I have a problem with the lack of infrastructure.  Electric power is not abundant especially when there are weather extremes.  The grids can barely keep up now.  Where is the talk of govt. investment in the infrastructure.  On a smaller scale I have stayed at several campgrounds in the summer where the campground grid can't keep up with the RV AC's.  Brown outs are common.  Not much is mentioned about the effect of heat and cold on these batteries.  I would consider a hybrid which would give you a safety margin and mitigate (somewhat) the effect on the grid.  We are not ready and can't afford a full EV transition without further investment in the support infrastructure and studying the  effect of mining on the environment 

[Chalkie]

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If I worked at a rig and drove in with a Rivian with a welder on the back I wouldn't care about peer pressure. I am not in grade school.

To this I say maybe or maybe not. It would likely depend on how the union those workers belonged to felt about it. A number of years back my son had the unpleasant experience of the union he belonged to not allowing him to park at the union hall because he bought a truck that "was not made in the USA". Is this the same? Sort of. The union may not approve of mingling with something that is trying to end what they are working on.  Is that logical? I don't know.

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When dealing with people, remember you are not dealing with creatures of logic, but creatures of emotion.  ~Dale Carnegie

 

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Chalkie said:

A number of years back my son had the unpleasant experience of the union he belonged to not allowing him to park at the union hall because he bought a truck that "was not made in the USA".

Before I retired my work used to frequently take me past a union shop, GM plant where the Tahoe and Yukon were built. I would bet that no more than 1/3 of the cars were GM built and another 1/3 at least were imports. It used to really make me chuckle. 

[RV_]

Amen Kirk! Just like the folks that called us unAmerican for driving Toyotas or VWs in the 60s are driving those same brands now.😅

Gary, I don't care at all what others think or say about my owning an EV. When we met you drove a Subaru.  What did you drive back then? I can guess. I am retired.

Kirk since you joined in on changing your topic I'll go along.

I agree a free market should be up to the people and what they want to buy. So stop limiting DTC sales of EVs with no dealers to protect.

I agree the government has no place limiting ICE car sales to people who live in any jusrisdiction/state, nor should government have laws inhibiting DTC sales (Direct To Consumer) sales. You can't defend limiting one and not the other for sales. We are talking only about limiting sales here. When you are not allowed to buy an ICE vehicle in any one or more states then there might be an issue. If Texas made Texans buy their Ice Vehicles in another state regardless of sales method that would be silly because they make fossil fuels. They also manufacture EVs that sell DTC. Whataboutisms like "whatabout pollution controls and climate change" have zero to do with our ability to buy whatever car or truck we want to buy in our free country.

What do unions have to do with it? If you work with a bunch of people, union or not, that want you off a job, that is your problem. I support unions 100% If you don't we will have to agree to disagree.

When I was a kid with my VWs and MGs and Triumph motorcycles in my first tour 1971-1975, folks in Louisiana were very offended by them furrin' cars and motorcycles I drove and rode. Called owning a Brit roadster, a Japanese or European brand (which Mercedes, VW, MG, Porsche, and BMW are), "unamurican." This was when American automakers were producing some of the worst vehicles before or since because they could get away with it. I bought mostly foreign as they were cheaper and build quality in the late 60s through the 70s was better. The competition was good and American manufacturers rose to the challenge only when they had to. Do you call someone driving a Toyota or VW un-american today? Of course not.

I'm fine with folks who don't or do like EVs. I will correct 180° misinformation that is just wrong from both. If facts are fearful then the problem isn't EVs. Our electric dryer is used several times a week and with an electric range and Air Conditioner they use way more power than my Tesla. If someone said RVs are taking too much of our fuel supply and we should dislike them and restrict their use and sales channels as much as we can it would be the same silliness as saying all RVrs are motor-homes and trailers cannot be called RVs. Then having them arguing that misinformation and getting mad when someone shows that the industry considers motorhomes, fivers, bumper pull, and truck campers all RVs would be insane right?

The fanning of infrastructure panic has nothing to do with EVs. It does need attention right now! That whether we have EVs or not. Texas is a great case in point as they formed ERCOT, after the big winter grid meltdown resulting in deaths and property damage in 2011, to harden their system. It had failed several times before and ERCOT was formed to fix it after the big freeze there of 2011. Few EVs there in 2011. And nothing was done. Thus the big freeze of 2021 where hundreds of Texans died! I'd be happy to go into email to discuss that with anyone who wants to discuss it, but not here, as that would get politically laden immediately, but my point is where are you when the grid needs upgrading. Not for me, not for EVs, for you and all those electric heater and Air Conditioners? I worry about my friends there.

Clarify for me, relatively speaking there are few EVs right now. One of the recurring themes is that EVs are going to put too much strain on the grid that does not work now?

Are any of you suggesting that our grid, especially in hot states in the South have no plans to fix existing shortfalls? Not for EVs because in poorer states they wwill be last to change significantly to EVs. Or that with increasing populations the grids should not be hardened for winter and new generating plants be brought on line? I don't care if you use coal or Nuclear or renewables! It will take every technology we have to fix these issues in a timely manner.

So back to the topic.

I already agreed that except for very light trailers for local camping or towing that EVs are not yet ready for towing a 36 foot fiver 300 miles like my 30 gallon diesel tanked 1 Ton Ram dually could  pulling one. It got 17-20 off load and hauling local things but got 10 mpg give or take 1 mpg hauling the 36 fiver full time 7 mpg with Kansas headwinds and climbing mountains and at altitude. Our needs after we came off the road did not make any real difference in mpg locally.

Carrying a dresser in the back of my EV or a refrigerator or a generator, which weighs no more than two 150 pound people, makes no more noticeable difference in my range than in my Subaru. Carrying a welder or generator in the Rivian won't make any more difference than two skinny guys, me and one passenger. Range anxiety was years ago with 75-100 mile range early Leafs and EV smart cars. There are some really inexpensive EVs for urban use only coming.

My videos and articles proved what I have already said. EVs do not need charging any more often than my Subaru Forester in normal use. I used a 1 ton Ram Diesel dually full timing. Since coming off the road fulltime, 99.9% of the time there was nothing in my 4 Ram 2500 diesel SRW long bed and one short bed truck beds. Like most folks in town and suburban we use them as country Cadillacs.

If I decide to get back on the road and buy another fiver I would also buy a diesel 2004.5- 2006 Ram Cummins without all the smog stuff and fluids and 20 mpg off load, even if I had to have it rebuilt. Some greenie huh?

But that's not in the plans so I will buy and drive my EVs and play with my new toy, the Rivian whenever it comes in. Loving life with fast vehicles and superb handling with much cheaper prices for the performance. The fastest production car in the world today is a Tesla Model S Plaid. ~$130k and beats the $175k-million dollar plus supercars like the fastest Ferraris, Porsches, Lambos, etc. I am a performance guy. And Invite anyone passing by to stop in for coffee and a look at my past projects. We can go for a spin or not.

Life IS good. To quote Bruce's buddy in his videos "Those are the facts, you don't have to like them."

[Kirk W]

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You wouldn't worry so much about what others think of you if you realized how seldom they do.      -Eleanor Roosevelt.

 

[RV_]

Amen Kirk, I have always been a straight shooter and never worried much about what others thought. Some folks think everyone is focused on them. Heck except for friends I pretty much dismiss most of the crazy stuff folks believe today. I don't know why they think they are on my radar screen.

I have found one thing lately and that is despite facts, folks don't want to hear your opinion, they want to hear their opinion coming out of your mouth!

 

[Dutch_12078]

6 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Before I retired my work used to frequently take me past a union shop, GM plant where the Tahoe and Yukon were built. I would bet that no more than 1/3 of the cars were GM built and another 1/3 at least were imports. It used to really make me chuckle. 

Years ago I was sent on a computer system service call at a Ford plant in Buffalo, NY. The parking lot had the first several rows closest to the building signed as "Reserved for Ford Products Only", and then several rows of "American Made Cars Only", and finally the rear rows were "Foreign Cars". I was driving a company Chevy at the time, so I was glad the visitors parking in front of the building wasn't restricted...

[Chalkie]

10 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Before I retired my work used to frequently take me past a union shop, GM plant where the Tahoe and Yukon were built. I would bet that no more than 1/3 of the cars were GM built and another 1/3 at least were imports. It used to really make me chuckle. 

Well the sad part was that his truck was made in Kentucky by UAW employees but it was badged Toyota and therefore a foreign car.

 

[TXiceman]

13 hours ago, Chalkie said:

Well the sad part was that his truck was made in Kentucky by UAW employees but it was badged Toyota and therefore a foreign car.

 

The last new car we bought for my wife was a Toyota Camry and it had more US content than Ford or GM.

Ken

 

[RV_]

American company Tesla, makes models for the US in Fremont California and near Austin Texas. Rivians also an American company are all made in Normal Illinois. Because they are respectively the first popular mass produced EV cars and first EV truck to go into production they also have to make most of their parts locally as suppliers won't have much for them. Batteries are both made by Tesla and a couple of suppliers. Rivian buys 100% of the batteries foreign so far. But Kentucky is ginning up battery and recycling plants to create jobs due to amazing demand for EVs.

European Teslas will be German Made in the Berlin Gigafactory, and Asian Teslas will be made in the Shanghai Gigafactory.

I was surprised that there were no comments on the Rivian truck beating the Mustang Mach e in that race in my video. It walked away from it handily. No one expected that. But make no mistake that Mustang is faster than my Model Y by a hair and either will impress with the launch with full torque. Of course I have asked and few here have test driven an EV of today.

The topic is Car and Driver rates the EV and Kirk's second link about EV trucks and towing. I am just going with the flow.

I have bad news for folks who think car enthusiasts who own EVs are some kind of greenie. Some are and some are not just like some folks who drive ICE cars belong to PETA.

Look up the 2011 Texas power grid failure and the deaths then. Not many renewables to falsely blame, and there were only Tesla Roadsters and I doubt many in Texas.

Tesla did not start producing retail Model S vehicles, its first from its first US factory until 2012! Can't blame EVs

"Tesla officially took possession of the site on October 19, 2010, and opened it on October 27.^[2] The state of California has supported the renewal, expecting tax income from sustained jobs. The first retail delivery of the Tesla Model S took place during a special event at the Tesla Factory on June 22, 2012.^{" Source:} https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Fremont_Factory