Jump to content

Is Microsoft really going to cut off security updates for my "unsupported" Windows 11 PC?


Recommended Posts

Excellent article and I am glad to see it from what I consider one of the most reliable tech writers on Windows anywhere, Ed Bott.

This week: Decoding Microsoft's confusing update policies, finding advanced 2FA options, and getting Google Fiber into your apartment building.

Excerpt:

"I've read that Microsoft says installing Windows 11 on an unsupported PC means it won't be entitled to receive updates in the future. If I do a clean install of Windows 11 on an incompatible PC, is my PC in danger of getting cut off from monthly security updates at some point in the future?

Have you ever heard of FUD? The acronym, short for "fear, uncertainty, and doubt," has been around a long time, but it was popularized in the 1970s as a way of describing how the giant IBM Corporation discouraged its customers from even considering competing products.

FUD is a classic marketing technique used when there's no good technical argument to make against the choice that the customer is contemplating. It's odd, though, to see an example like this, in which the giant Microsoft Corporation is using FUD to discourage customers from installing one of its own products.

The exact language in that warning is interesting:

Installing Windows 11 on this PC is not recommended and may result in compatibility issues. If you proceed with installing Windows 11, your PC will no longer be supported and won't be entitled to receive updates. Damages to your PC due to lack of compatibility aren't covered under the manufacturer warranty. [emphasis added]

This is, of course, the business-school version of "Gee, nice PC you got there. Be a shame if something happened to it." But it really doesn't say that Microsoft is going to cut off your access to updates; it simply says you're no longer "entitled" to those updates. That word is a tell on Microsoft's part, disclaiming legal responsibility without actually saying what it will do. In fact, it would require an awful lot of work on Microsoft's part to configure its update servers to reject requests from PCs based on such detailed configuration information. Doing so would run a risk of snagging customers with valid installations, and it would needlessly anger customers who were otherwise having a perfectly good experience with Windows 11.

Instead, that language is a way of convincing timid customers to retire those old PCs in favor of shiny new ones, thereby choosing the option that puts fresh revenue in the pockets of Microsoft and its OEM partners.

This sort of confusion isn't without precedent. Back in the days before Windows 10 launched, Windows skeptics were convinced that Microsoft was going to pull the rug out from updates based on some confusing language about the "supported lifetime of the device." The world's worst Windows pundit, in fact, was convinced Microsoft was going to start charging Windows 10 customers for updates within two years.

That turned out to be a false alarm, for all the same reasons I outlined in this case.

It's possible, of course, that some future Windows update will cause performance and reliability issues on older PCs, but the idea that Microsoft will punish its customers for following a documented upgrade deployment procedure is, in my opinion, highly unlikely."

More in the article here:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/is-microsoft-really-going-to-cut-off-security-updates-for-my-unsupported-windows-11-pc-ask-zdnet/?ftag=TRE-03-10aaa6b&bhid={%24external_id}&mid={%24MESSAGE_ID}&cid={%24contact_id}&eh={%24CF_emailHash}

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, RV_ said:

Instead, that language is a way of convincing timid customers to retire those old PCs in favor of shiny new ones, thereby choosing the option that puts fresh revenue in the pockets of Microsoft and its OEM partners.

Derik,

Very insightful article IMO. Thank you!

It reminds me of the Windows 8 roll-out.  Marketing was pushing for a unified user interface for Windows on PCs, tablets and phones.  Most individual users and enterprises were pushing back and unhappy with the implementation.  Marketing apparently convinced the highest level MS execs that, although there might be a bumpy road in establishing a unified user interface, a successful transition would be transformational. In the end, the unified single interface proved more disruptive than advantageous.  And the fix was a purge, primarily in marketing.

The current Windows 11 trajectory seems similar, and I suspect the resultant fix will be too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Thanks Dan I could not agree more.

Thinking to get some money for my old equipment before every "claimed" incompatible system becomes worthless, I did all my upgrades in the past three months. I just replaced my 2013 Dell  AIO 2720 27" touch screen with a Lenovo similar 27" QHD touchscreen i7/16GB/256SSD/1TB HDD storage drive etc. AIO with Windows 11. I might have ridden that excellent Dell into the ground had I read that article before buying. Or not. Prior to that Dell I upgraded ~ every 18 months or less.

My old Windows 10  Dell 2720 the Lenovo AIO just replaced came with Windows 8 which was upgraded free to Windows 8-8.1-10.

I also remember the folks that never had iPad or touchscreen phones unwilling to learn to use Windows Tablets and Surface devices touchscreens.

I have used Linux, and MSDOS/DRDOS/GEOWORKS, then every iteration of Windows from Windows to Workgroups 3.1 to Windows 11. As well I use Tizen 5.5 on my Galaxy Smartwatch, and Fire OS 10 on my Amazon Tablets, which uses a lot of Android code, as well as Android 10 on our Motorola 5G Ace phones. I am not a fan of the Fire OS or Android's filing system. I use ES File Explorer for that but it is clunky to me.

I did like the new user interface introduced with Windows 8, and still do for my phones. However MS could have done what Android did, and still does, and allowed other third party launchers on their platform. I prefer the Windows mobile 10 tiles to the Android launchers I was forced into when MS abandoned the Windows phones and Lumia. I found Squarehome, a launcher that looks and acts exactly like the Windows 10 mobile tile screen looked, and even has the slide out Apps tray! See pic below of my Moto ace 5G with Squarehome Windows phone type launcher main screen.

Yes I could adapt to the regular Android launchers but like the folks who liked the old interfaces for Windows, then and now, I prefer the tiles on my phone. But I can use either one as we did have the Android interface before we got Windows 10 phones. I sure wish Amazon continued development on their Fire phones as now we really have only Android and Apple phone OS regardless of manufacturer. Samsung is trying to break from Android, and may have a new phone OS in addition to their watch OS.

Windows 11 is easy to adapt to but my Hauppauge WinTV HVR 955Q tuners/DVRs that worked flawlessly on my old Win 10 system (Still does until I sell it) crashes almost once daily on Windows 11. I have the error codes sent to Hauppauge and hope they figure it out. I had no crashes on the Surface Pro 8 the few weeks I kept it.

(Edited for incomplete sentences)

RRCs4TFl.jpg

Edited by RV_
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow - you have lots of experience with many system types.

I am almost certainly going to have a Windows 11 notebook and desk side system.  So far, my existing ones work well.  I don't intend to look at switching to Windows 11 until one breaks down, or Windows 11 offers something compelling to me.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have installed Windows 11 on two of my computers.  One meets all of the requirements and the other does not (older CPU and no TPM).  That way I can see how Win 11 behaves in both scenarios.  Neither of these are production machines, simply test beds so I can remain current.  So far I have not found a compelling reason to upgrade so most of my computers will continue to run Linux and Windows 10.  

Safe Travels...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, DanZemke said:

Wow - you have lots of experience with many system types.

I am almost certainly going to have a Windows 11 notebook and desk side system.  So far, my existing ones work well.  I don't intend to look at switching to Windows 11 until one breaks down, or Windows 11 offers something compelling to me.

 

Dan, they are still working out some few glitches, most of which I read about were fixed before I switched to 11 for my main system. So if ever/whenever you switch it is really an easy transition.

I was just trying to make the point that despite being very capable in lots of OS' along the way, and upgrading hardware often, I still like Windows best, and Windows 10/11, for just users, will be no challenge at all.

I still keep Firefox, Outlook, Task Manager, Control panel, Snipping tool, Calculator, Sling TV, Hulu, Netflix, WinTV10, Malwarebytes, CCleaner, Nord VPN pinned to the task bar along with a few others. The calculator is surprisingly quick on a touchscreen as is scrolling and zooming size in and out. I have the TV and Firefox sharing the left half of my screen with the browser on top and the TV, or streaming service under it, and my Email now Outlook (Office Pro 2016) again, on the whole right half of my screen.

None of that is different with Windows 11.

I think a certain percentage of folks will complain regardless. I believe folks can use their old machines if they were top shelf hardware when new and recent enough to be quad core processors with 8GB of RAM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Roger,

Please post here from time to time and let us know how that non-TPM machine works out with 11. And what the processor/RAM are and whether Windows 11 Pro or Home.

My Surface Pro 7, and Surface Pro 7+LTE tablets are Windows 11 compatible as are our two Surface Go tablets with LTE. I am going to try upgrading the 7+ to 11 later after making a full system image to restore if there are any issues with the LTE. I would rather restore an image than have old windows/new windows kludge left over if I revert.

I ask because I have a new backup system as well I am building now. It's a New Overstock Dell Optiplex 3080 Micro replacing my old backup system HP G3 Micro PC. It is an i5 10500T 6 core processor and came with 8GB RAM in two 4GB sticks and a 128GB M.2 SSD with a 2.5" bay for a SATA SSD. It is Windows 11 compatible but I may just leave it Windows 10 for a year or three. I bought a WD Black SN770 1TB SSD with blazing read speed and 32GB (2X16) of DDR4 3200 Ram.

If I like them in the backup I may upgrade the 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD storage drives on my main system with them. AIOs are more of a PITA to upgrade than desktops, even micros. If that all works out I will install one of my spare 1 TB drives in the Dell 3080 backup system as well. It is hooked up to my Acer Quad HD 27" monitor. I am not scavenging the SSDs from the three systems I am selling. I do feel much better about selling them now too after reading this article so would have no issue selling them to a friend locally either.

This is my first NVME SSD upgrade and the mechanics of R&R are no issue. I plan to image the smaller SSD drive it came with from the factory to the 3.5" HDD in the drive dock, as it is already set up with all my programs, and then use a Recovery USB to restore the system to the new NVME drive, then use the image to restore all my programs and data. That was never a problem with SATA SSDs in the past. If you've already done NVME upgrades and have any tips let me know.

Here are the upgrades, they came in yesterday.     

55JS6xml.jpg   

Edited by RV_
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/27/2022 at 1:14 PM, RV_ said:

Roger,

Please post here from time to time and let us know how that non-TPM machine works out with 11. And what the processor/RAM are and whether Windows 11 Pro or Home.

The non-supported computer is desktop that I built back in 2012.  It has a quad core third generation Core I5 at 3.4GHz, 16GB Ram, a 512GB SSD with Windows 10, and two hard drives for data storage.  I primarily use it for video editing.  What makes this machine great as a test bed is that one of the hard drives is in a tray-less disk caddie.  I can quickly swap that hard disk with another containing a different operating system.  A simple key press at boot time allows me to select which drive to boot from.

The supported computer is an Acer laptop with an 8th generation Core I3 at 2.2GHz, 8GB Ram, 512GB NVMe SSD, and a 1TB hard drive.

Both computers have Windows 11 Education installed (senior citizens in Florida can attend state universities tuition free making us eligible for all kinds of free / low cost software).  So far I have not noticed any obvious differences between them.  I have made a couple of simple GUI tweaks on the laptop while the desktop is completely stock.  I'll report if anything changes in the future.

Safe Travels...

Edited by k4rs
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Thanks Roger. I think they mentioned before that a clean install gets updates and should continue. I look forward to your ongoing reports.

I installed the NVMe 1TB drive and the 32GB of DDR4 PC 3200 RAm today. I used control panel/Backup and restore (Windows 7) and made a full system image of the 128GB NVMe to my external drive dock and storage drive. I pulled the 128 and moved the screw for the longer NVMe 1TB drive and stuck the thermal foam pad back on the drive and just rebooted without the USB Recovery drive I made and the computer went into the same recovery start up. I went to advanced and restored that original image I made today to the new drive. It worked perfectly in no time. 

However the partition was 128GB with the remainder as unallocated space so I downloaded the Minitool partition wizard free: https://www.partitionwizard.com/free-partition-manager.html I've used it for years free and love it. Since my original drive is safely removed if I goof I can format and start over. No real risk to my system and data/programs.

I expanded the C partition using all the unallocated partition space giving me the full 940 GB or so in my C partition. It went very easy and the speeds it now operates at is incredible.

So now I'm shopping a 1 or 2TB SSD in marketplace as the storage drive. I can use a good used one for that as I have a lot of 1 and 2TB 3.5 HDDs I use for backup storage and images of each system. I have  A 1TB WD Passport portable HDD drive and five 2.5" enclosures with 640GB and 500GB 2.5" HDD drives in them to assign one to each of our two Surface Pro 7 256GB/7+ 128GB and two Surface Go2 systems with 128GB SSDs. I have one 500GB 2.5 for Lynda's 27" All in one but she rarely has more than 150GB on her systems.

I just don't want to hit an HDD slowdown when accessing my local storage in any system.

So I'm a happy camper as the upgrade of RAM and NVMe 1TB WD Black took under an hour including making the system image!

Since NVMe drives are here to stay I'm looking at NVME drive docks to use for clones like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09K2WVT3M/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?pd_rd_i=B09K2WVT3M&pd_rd_w=elehV&pf_rd_p=1f2c02dc-66c8-4296-801a-31d671985c95&pd_rd_wg=JCetb&pf_rd_r=FEF14DVNJY4KFB9CJ5DC&pd_rd_r=bed6f464-2d2a-44ed-b887-f84d56934b27&s=pc&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyVERQMjlRUDNWWFdQJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDM1MzEzMTJTU1ZWRlU0RFdKNCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNDY2NzE2VzJENk1FQlRNR01MJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsMiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

I need one to format my original drive and I still have external cooling fans I can use with these. They get very hot in prolonged use. Still shopping them. Since they clone but the smaller drive holders won't clone I may get one of these since I can restore after format using these the restoring images directly to the drive installed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0892BK5L6/ref=sspa_dk_detail_9?pd_rd_i=B0892BK5L6&pd_rd_w=BCMdw&pf_rd_p=b9951ce4-3bd8-4b04-9123-0fda35d6155e&pd_rd_wg=3K1dH&pf_rd_r=WCDEZZQATY1B265TH0BZ&pd_rd_r=86730038-ffe5-49a9-95c8-9d86277f958d&s=pc&smid=A41S1C1L96T2O&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFPU1YxTTVLN0owQTkmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAyNDIwODkxQTZYN1gwQ1RIV0pTJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAzNDM4MjAzRUlTOFZXQ0FXNktQJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1

Edited by RV_
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have used CCleaner for many years but recently came across Glary Utilities. It has everything that CCleaner has and more. It's available here:

https://www.filepuma.com/download_glary_utilities_254/

I've been using the free version and it will prompt you to activate it. It will gladly upgrade you to the paid version. I've been using the free version for several months with no problems. There is no need to activate it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Tom_M said:

I have used CCleaner for many years but recently came across Glary Utilities. It has everything that CCleaner has and more. It's available here:

https://www.filepuma.com/download_glary_utilities_254/

I've been using the free version and it will prompt you to activate it. It will gladly upgrade you to the paid version. I've been using the free version for several months with no problems. There is no need to activate it.

What all do you use it for?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Tom_M said:

I have used CCleaner for many years but recently came across Glary Utilities. It has everything that CCleaner has and more. It's available here:

https://www.filepuma.com/download_glary_utilities_254/

I've been using the free version and it will prompt you to activate it. It will gladly upgrade you to the paid version. I've been using the free version for several months with no problems. There is no need to activate it.

This is the main website: https://www.glarysoft.com/

I just installed the program and used it,  like it better than CCleaner at first use. It includes automatic program updates, even for Chrome browser.

Update: I just used it again, this time I clicked on remove trackers. It found and removed over 10,4xx trackers. Now all my browsers run much faster.

Edited by Ray,IN
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Roger,

I decided to use an HDD instead of a much expensive SSD for 1TB additional storage behind the 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD primary drive storage. I ran across a neighbor who does computer repairs like I used to do and he had a lot of 2018 lightly used 7200rpm performance 1 TB 2.5" WD and Toshiba HDDs. He tested them and I decided that with that blazing fast M.2 WD Black NVMe primary drive that I'd save some bucks and use an HDD for the additional storage for 2TB total. I also have five external cases for 2.5" drives that had a ragtag range of old drives in them I had a decade ago from 100GB to 640GB. When he offered to sell me six of them for $60.00 I bought them, installed them in the 3080 and the external drive cases, and am disposing of the old ones after military wiping them.

So my micro Dell 3080 Optiplex system has 2TB storage and I have five 1TB portable drives too for little or nothing. And now the 5000 Mbps SSD and 32GB of very fast DDR4 RAM makes it pretty state of the art yet didn't break the bank.

I also ordered a 1TB tiny NVMe drive 1TB SSD for Surface pro 7+ and Surface Pro8 for my Surface Pro 7+ (plus) LTE which has the 11th Gen Intel Core i5-1135G7 @ 4.2GHz Turbo speed https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/208658/intel-core-i51135g7-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-20-ghz.html that's said to be faster than the 10th gen i7. While it only has 8GB of RAM that can't be upgraded, I'd despaired of finding this: 1TB Surface Pro SSD

So it will be fast too. If it goes well on install as the WD Black did in the Dell 3080 (make a system image to my external drive from Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Backup and Restore (Windows 7) put in the drive go advanced on the system boot and choose to restore the image to the new drive, then mini tool partition master free to recover the unallocated space onto the C Drive) then I'm keeping the i5/8GB/1TB Pro 7+ LTE and selling my i7/16GB/256GB Surface Pro7. That still leaves us with two (Lynda's and mine) Surface Go 2 10" LTE tablets with the M3 processor/8GB RAM/128GB SSD, and one Surface Pro 7+LTE for tablets.

Upgrading and building is easy but since I am more a user these days, it takes some refresher reading for what's new in drives and RAM.

I'll post once I've received my new Surface Pro SSD and installed it.

Edited by RV_
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like a good deal.  I have several external USB cases for SATA drives.  Some have SSD and the rest are HD.  I only have one that uses an M.2 drive.  It is blazing fast when hooked up to a Gen2 USB port.  Unfortunately it fell off the back of my desk and I have been unable to locate it.  :o

Safe Travels...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roger, I know. I bought one of those toolless NVMe external USB 3.2 cases not dock. It was freakin amazing! But I bought it to clone a new bare drive and it would not clone, just worked like a USB Flash drive. I was going to use an SSD for the Pro 7plus without the black case you see in the link in the previous post, but it did not work to clone it, and downloading the Microsoft system files was not working so I returned both. Now since NVMe drives are here to stay I'm getting both, an NVMe drive dock and an external NVMe USB case. Which did you own/lose (link?)  Recommend it?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't recall the specifics about the case.  I bought it from either Amazon or Newegg.  I had an mSata SSD laying around and did not have a computer to install it in.   I have looked behind the desk and crawled around on the floor underneath but have been unable to locate the drive.  It must have found some nook or cranny to slip into.   I have WAY TOO MUCH on the desk to move it away from the wall.  I expect that sometime long after I am gone, someone will eventually find it and wonder what it is. :D

Safe Travels...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roger, even if organized we both have way too many tech toys. 😂🤣😉 I realized that my toys need to go to others who will be as thrilled with them as I was until I got the new ones. I wish I had kept them all but it would require a warehouse. And we are moving again so I am going back to the fulltimer's rule. If I haven't used it in a year out it goes, sold, donated, or landfill. When I get something new, something old has to go.

I am getting one of these: M Key M.2 NVMe drive dock

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...