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Tom Gierisch

Need advise / help

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I own a 1999 VNL Volvo with a Detroit 60 series engine. I have owned this truck since 2005 and always had an electrical gremlin. My drivers display has never worked. No big deal most don't. I had one fuse that blows immediately which is #27 5A for drivers information center. I believe I have had this problem from day one with this truck. It doesn't seem to effect operation or engine performance. Recently I have a second fuse, #12 5A for the drivers information center which now blows immediately when the engine is started.  This fuse/problem has caused loss of power making travel difficult.  I have very recently had the air to air cooler replaced along with srs and trs sensors. The radiator and a/c condenser were  removed to complete this work and A/C was recharged. Fuse #12 blew for the first time shortly after this work was done causing loss of power. After discovering the blown fuse I replaced it and the truck ran fine. I drove from northern Montana to Moab UT with no issues. Upon arrival in Moab the fuse blew again. With that fuse blown I have loss of power again. The fault remains and fuse #12 blows immediately when you start the engine. I have removed all wringing harnesses from the instrument cluster and replaced the fuses. Both fuses blow when the engine is started even with the wiring disconnected to the instrument cluster.

I plan to try and head south today and see how things go. Your thoughts and advise are welcome. This problem may be beyond my level of expertise. I'm headed towards AZ. If anyone knows of a shop with a good electrician it would be appreciated. 

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9 minutes ago, Tom Gierisch said:

. I have removed all wringing harnesses from the instrument cluster and replaced the fuses. Both fuses blow when the engine is started even with the wiring disconnected to the instrument cluster.

This tells me that you have a short in the wiring harness. If you can pull the harness, remove the bundling tape, and lay hands on each and every wire in the bundle, I'm willing to bet you will find some worn insulation.

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  If you go to the resource guide in the HDT section you can find pdf files on your engine. It may be worth your time to read through it. Also look up the Volvo cab wiring. It might make Darryl’s thoughts faster to come into play.

  Not fun sitting along the road .   Wondering.

 

 

 

   Vern in a T-shirt 

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Since this new problem cropped up just after all the a/c work, I'd also look for a pinched/nicked wire anywhere they might have worked.

And BTW, welcome to the forum.

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There are several sensors located on and around the radiator stack.  I would start there and work towards the firewall along the drivers side frame rail for the AC pressure switches.  Check the connections, terminals, etc.  Check the harness for the coolant tank sensor on the passenger side, I've had an intermittent issue with that sensor and harness.  

Check your grounds... there are several behind the kick panels under the dash, I would recommend actually taking the grounds off, cleaning the terminal and reconnecting.  Check all the grounds on the truck.  I solved a bunch of little issues this way. 1998 Volvo 610 Cummins engine 10sp.

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  What you need is a wire tracing tool. You could follow the wire from the fuse and find the other and. Wether it is the bad part that it leads you to or a broken wire. I have one but it’s name is in storage under my hair at the moment.

 

  Just google wire tracing tool. Also watch a YouTube video on said subject.

 

  Just thinking,   Vern in a T-shirt   

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   After brushing my hair this am the name of that tool fell out on the counter. It said tone generator. With this tool you should be able to follow that wire . You should be able to find the other end out under the hood with it. 

 

  Thinking,   Vern in a T-shirt 

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13 hours ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

There are several sensors located on and around the radiator stack.  I would start there and work towards the firewall along the drivers side frame rail for the AC pressure switches.  Check the connections, terminals, etc.  Check the harness for the coolant tank sensor on the passenger side, I've had an intermittent issue with that sensor and harness.  

Check your grounds... there are several behind the kick panels under the dash, I would recommend actually taking the grounds off, cleaning the terminal and reconnecting.  Check all the grounds on the truck.  I solved a bunch of little issues this way. 1998 Volvo 610 Cummins engine 10sp.

I agree with Jim....i had a problem like yours when down in Myrtle Beach a couple years ago.  Found this mechanic shop and he put 2 of his best on it. My rig is a 1997 WIA 64 with a series 60, 11.1.  they found several gremlins when they pulled my dashboard controls.  Full of dust and corrosion.  They cleaned everything up and deoxed all connections.  Bottom line.... problem solved.  They also did the same thing for all the grounds on the truck and under the hood.  Best of luck and welcome.

 

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all good advice above

Basically it's going to be a dig through the wiring harnesses and find worn insulation / pinched wire / etc exercise.  Finding some intel which explains what the fuses are responsible for may give you an easier place to start, but ultimately it'll be a hunt and peck effort. 

Shop's will likely charge out at flat rate, cost depending upon how soon they find the issue will be the gating factor on cost.  Difficult to estimate.

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So on my generic Volvo fuse layout says-

Fuse 27 is Flash to Pass 

Fuse 12 is the Driver Info Center.  

Check the wires on the back plug for the Driver Info Center make sure all the pins are pushed in.   On our '98 Volvo with a Cummins, we had an issue with the Daylight Driving Light module that plugs into the fuse panel.  It caused all sorts of gremlins for a day or 2.

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13 hours ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

So on my generic Volvo fuse layout says-

Fuse 27 is Flash to Pass 

Fuse 12 is the Driver Info Center.  

Check the wires on the back plug for the Driver Info Center make sure all the pins are pushed in.   On our '98 Volvo with a Cummins, we had an issue with the Daylight Driving Light module that plugs into the fuse panel.  It caused all sorts of gremlins for a day or 2.

The V5_PV776_370_99218_2_Headlights_VN_B5_99 schematic has a little note beside F 27 that says prior to 11/99 it was F 30.  I have yet to find a schematic with F12 nor a _98 schematic with either in a circuit.  The Start and Charging schematic has both but are dead-ended.

A suggestion on a way to proceed.  

Attempting to isolate location of a shorted wire.  The correct way to look for this would be to use a “time domain reflectometer”.  The ones for checking metallic wires are expensive.  They will tell how far away from a wire end a short exists. 

This may be worth a try.  The theory is that the fuse blows due to a dead short either to a wire in the harness or to some place on the chassis.  With a way to monitor the wire’s impedance, a person might be able to locate the short by wiggling the harness and watching for an impedance change.  A good digital voltmeter would work.  Stick one end of the meter on ground and the other in the load side of the fuse.  One person watches the meter and another start wiggling.  Any change in impedance can show a possible location of a problem.  This would even allow a person to disconnect plugs until the ground goes away.

An alternative would be to use a simple test light that has an incandescent light bulb.  Put one end of the light to a known good 12 VDC source and the other in the load side of the fuse.  Bulb should light.  Do the wiggle thing watching for a change in intensity of the light.  Probably best done at night.

 

Edited by NeverEasy

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   The idea of the 12vdc light As stated above is a very easy way to look for your problem.  With the light one could do it by yourself.   Just need some patience to remove one connection at a time. If that is not the problem reconnect that connection. Then move to the next one. And move one part of the harness at a time.

 

 Just limit the bad words that escape. Then when you fix it you can leave good words fly as much as you want.

 

  Thinking,   Vern in a T-shirt 

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 Call Volvo for wiring schematics for your vin.number. Have the vin number ready and call there tech support. There number should be in the resource guide.  I have it in my truck I do believe. It may take some time to find it.

  If you get a helpful person on the other end they may point in the the correct place real fast. They should be there 24/7.

 

    Vern in a T-shirt 

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For schematics, Dale Bruss has them on his site.  Follow the link via the HHRG,  Under Repairs/Maintenance, click Volvo Schematics.

Thanks, Dale!

 

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Thanks for all of the replies.

I'm in Sedona AZ and looking forward to the good weather after leaving MT about ten days ago.

The engine ran fairly well on the way down. I definitely have an electrical issue but I'm not convinced it's directly related to poor intermittent engine performance. The hunt will start today looking for a fault. Again thanks for your comments and I'll post updates on what I find. 

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Started my project yesterday. Found a few surprises but none solved my problem. I knew it would not be simple and I'm usually not that lucky.

I have not been successful to find the link to Dale Bruss's wiring diagrams. Can someone help me out.

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I have been pretty busy for the last few days trying to run down my short.

1. Checked wiring under the hood where work was recently done. I did not find any issues.

2. Pulled all the lower panels under the dash including the dog house. Inspected wiring, removed some wire ties, removed screws securing fuse panel, visually inspected wiring, looked for signs of a ground to chassis,  and wire to wire. Tried to move wire harness a little bit to see if that would help. Removed and cleaned all ground wire to the fire wall of the engine. Replaces some worn wire loom but no obvious problems. Since I had the batteries disconnected during this exercise I cleaned all the battery terminals any wiring before reassembling.

3. After starting the engine both of my problem fuses #12 and #27 blew immediately. 

4. After the fuses blew I checked the voltage at the fuse panel, 19.5 volts. Then checked at the alternator, 19.5 volts. That does not sound so good. Sounds like I need a new alternator. I believe the voltage should be 14/14.5 volts. This may not be the answer to my problem but I think it has the capabilities to create more problems.

What do you think?

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Checked battery voltage this morning. Volt meter read 17.5 V. Obviously that can't be right. Got another volt meter, battery voltage read 12.7 V. Started engine, 14.3 volts at the alternator about the same at the batteries. I guess the good news is I don't need to go to Phoenix to buy a new alternator.

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Can you trace either #12 or #27?  Basically you want to follow the path and see where the circuit is pulling greater then the allotted amperage.  If you do some internet searches for like "diagnosing blown fuses" you'll find some examples.

good luck

 

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I have searched through all the schematics I can find on the Gen 1 Volvo.  I cannot find where either the F12 or F27 fuse feeds on a truck built before 11/99.  Is your build date on your 99 before November?  The only place I can find them is on the starter/alternator schematic and they are dead-ended there.  

A good place to start might be to check the resistance to ground on the load side of the fuses with the truck batteries disconnected.  Check again with the switch on but batteries disconnected.  Is there a constant ground on the load side of the fuses or only when the truck gets turned on?  

Have you tried my suggestion to put a lamp with 12VDC on one side and the other on the load side of the fuse ?  If the bulb lights, there is a ground on the load side.  Put some long leads on the bulb and take it with you to the spot you are wiggling.  Try it with the truck batteries disconnected, switch on and switch off.  Is there a difference in the intensity of the light?   

Sounds like a nightmare.  Wish I was there to help.  

 

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8 minutes ago, NeverEasy said:

Sounds like a nightmare

Just a minor inconvenience. Looking and wiggling isn't going to cut it here. The bundles need to be pulled apart, and each wire individually physically examined. A wiring diagram is a help in a situation like this, but isn't a requirement. The advantage they offer is a shortcut to places to disconnect the wire in the bundle, then the lightbulb in place of fuse can help narrow down the section of bundle to autopsy. Without diagrams, just more time hands on wires. Just time, no magic bullets.

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