Hitch Failures

[SuiteSuccess]

9 minutes ago, phoenix2013 said:

Carl, they are in the process of redoing their entire website ("at my direction"), work in process. But they will sell you just the head if you want, last time I heard $725 plus shipping. I used to sell them for $800. Are your swivel pins really, really loose? From what I remember Binkleys were doing very well on ETs because the anti-chucking built in (the dual dogbone system),  reduces the banging on the pins significantly. If they are just slightly loose, they still have a lot of life left in them. 

Mark Shelley and I designed the new head way back in the beginning because he had almost 30 K trailer and he wore out the Binkley in 13 months, in a TrailerSaver, which is notorious for doing this (lot of chucking). But I didn't offer these for sale, except as a very expensive option, because the only way I could make these was to take the jaw system out of a new Binkley and transfer it into the Super Binkley. I kept using the regular Binkleys during that time. Once it became obvious that Binkleys were going to be not available, I had to invest in tooling to make my own jaws, that's when the switch occurred to the new head exclusively. 

Talk to Brian Fairchild at PopUp 620-4312805, tell him you talked to me, he'll take care of you. Tell him you need the entire head with the bottom swivel. The head and the swivel are now two separate pieces, as are the swivel shafts.

No Henry, my head is fine.  In fact just checked it yesterday and lubed what I could.  Just like to know where to go if I needed replacement in the future and getting the information out for others access.  BTW is the Super Binkley complete for $725 or do they need the old for the jaws etc to build in?

[phoenix2013]

Not anymore, incidentally I redesigned the jaws just before I sold the company to Young's. They are no longer cast, they are water jet cut from solid steel. That's why we can go up in hitch capacity significantly. Gen 6

[phoenix2013]

Carl, picture of the new waterjet cut and machined steel jaws, currently manufactured by Young's Welding and installed in the current hitch heads on ETs.

[SuiteSuccess]

1 hour ago, phoenix2013 said:

Carl, picture of the new waterjet cut and machined steel jaws, currently manufactured by Young's Welding and installed in the current hitch heads on ETs.

👍

[rickeieio]

I find it interesting that most of the discussion is about head wear, not failures.  And while the thread that lead me to start this was about two Comfort Ride failures, thus far nobody's voted one as a failure. 

There's been several failures of  each the brands that I'm aware of, yet folks aren't checking the box.

Edited October 2, 2020 by rickeieio

[SuiteSuccess]

9 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

I find it interesting that most of the discussion is about head wear, not failures.  And while the thread that lead me to start this was about two Comfort Ride failures, thus far nobody's voted one as a failure. 

There's been several failures of  each the brands that I'm aware of, yet folks aren't checking the box.

Sorry my friend, I plead guilty.  Now back to the program at hand.  (Mooo).

[rickeieio]

6 hours ago, geodog1 said:

One must be made aware of the fact that the "Binkley" head was originally designed as a head to be used on "Yard Tugs" not as a road hitch.

 

JMTCW

 

ShortyO

Yes, and it was to be used "upside down" if I recall.  Much easier to lubricate and inspect.

Which leads me to wonder why the heck do hitches come with these things?  They're clearly inferior to the commercial style hitches.  I would think some clever person would design a smaller commercial style and market it.  No need for the side/side pivot either.  The commercial style allows for oscillation without pivots and such.

[SuiteSuccess]

6 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

Yes, and it was to be used "upside down" if I recall.  Much easier to lubricate and inspect.

Which leads me to wonder why the heck do hitches come with these things?  They're clearly inferior to the commercial style hitches.  I would think some clever person would design a smaller commercial style and market it.  No need for the side/side pivot either.  The commercial style allows for oscillation without pivots and such.

Uh oh, detour ahead. 😂

[GeorgiaHybrid]

OK, one failure on the ET hitch with us. Actually, two.... The hitch turned loose at Hutch a few years back while getting weighed by Trey and Susan (Sorry Trey),  and I think he still has nightmares from watching the trailer hit the ground. Thought it was my fault even though I checked the jaws visually. Learned to double check EVERYTHING after that. Fast forward a few months to an RV park in North Carolina.  Hooked up, pull test, backed up yet another 20 feet, pull test again and leave our site. Get to the top of the hill with the entire park below us, start up onto the road and BANG. the trailer hits the ground, the emergency breakaway does its job and the trailer shows it is dead level with the front of the trailer on the ground. Yes, it was a pretty steep hill.

EVERYONE PLEASE NOTE!!! CHECK YOU BREAKAWAY BEFORE EACH TRIP !!!! If ours hadn't worked, there is no telling how many could have been hurt.

Got hooked back up, drove a piece of 2x4 behind the lock block and headed home. Yes, I probably stopped to check that stupid block 50 times that day going home. Once there, Vicki wanted me to drive to Texas and get the hitch off of our old truck as she didn't want the ET on ours again. Not willing to do that, I backed it into the shop, pulled the hitch and tore it apart to see what had happened.

Full disclosure, Henry was getting his knees replaced when our hitch was built so his #2 guy put ours together. After looking at the hitch, it was obvious what had happened during assembly with the fit of the lock block to the jaws. It was a manufacturing issue that I'm sure wouldn't have happened if Henry had assembled the hitch. To Henry's credit, I sent him a photo of the hitch and the trailer damage and he paid the full amount to get the trailer fixed and sent me a new top to the hitch to replace the one we had.

I did re-work things a little to add two hitch pins as a positive lock for the lock block and made several other changes to the hitch but it has been flawless since then. 

Edited October 3, 2020 by GeorgiaHybrid

[phoenix2013]

This incident was the big impetus to get away from the cast jaws to precision cut steel jaws. I really appreciated the fact that David "didn't loose his cool" but instead put his engineering head on with an idea, "let's figure out what the hell happened here". Cast jaws were a real pain in the ass in the amount of secondary rework to make them work properly. Since they were all slightly different that fitting process would take anywhere from 1/2 hour to 2 hours of screwing around (after the initial machining of the raw castings). I was the one who did every single head final fit by hand EXCEPT THIS ONE. Dave and I had a "managerial discussion" about dedicated and eager employees who you occasionally wish were not so eager. To this day I didn't tell him what the consequences of his "eagerness" were, what would be the point, and he would be devastated by that knowledge forever.

After redesigning the jaws to be waterjet cut, I prototyped two sets, inserted one set in the head, pulled the handle and slammed the king pin into the jaws. Bang! Perfect fit around the pin. NO PRIMARY MACHING (WATERJET DID THAT), NO SECONDARY FITTING (UP TO 2 HOURS), WATERJET DID THAT, LORD HAS DECENDED AND BLESSED THIS EARTH.

So this incident and Dave were directly responsible for ending the masochism that building every previous Super Binkley head was!

[SuiteSuccess]

So brings up the most salient point I’m learning from these discussions.  Every hitch that goes out the door from the manufacturer should have a quality control inspection from a checklist (welds, ease of hitching, pins prior to assembly etc.) That inspection should be stickered and recorded.  Secondly every owner should be provided with a maintenance/ inspection checklist to follow at determined time intervals. It’s like pre- trip inspection of our HDTs, bet less than 25% do it as often as it should be done.

[Hewhoknowslittle]

14 minutes ago, SuiteSuccess said:

So brings up the most salient point I’m learning from these discussions.  Every hitch that goes out the door from the manufacturer should have a quality control inspection from a checklist (welds, ease of hitching, pins prior to assembly etc.) That inspection should be stickered and recorded.  Secondly every owner should be provided with a maintenance/ inspection checklist to follow at determined time intervals. It’s like pre- trip inspection of our HDTs, bet less than 25% do it as often as it should be done.

Very well said, and I hope that others head this warning!
Your truck and trailer are your responsibility and you should be aware that your lack of inspection will cause hurt to others.

[jenandjon]

I was just about to bring that up. Pre AND post trip inspections are very important. I learned that lesson again a few weeks ago. I parked the truck and walked away. A couple days later I needed to get some grain hauled. Upon my pre trip I found a tire off the rim. It cost me a few hours that morning when quick walk around when I came home days ago would have found it. I could have fixed it during my down time. I stress to my hired help when you park that truck at night you get it ready for tomorrow. I broke my own rule.

If you spend enough time on the road you would be surprised some of the things you find just by walking around your rig.

[Lance A Lott]

I understand that safety chains are not required with a fifth wheel but should they be used anyway. I pull a gooseneck and they are required with them, on my HDT they will be almost worthless as the front of the trailer will hit long before the chains become tight as they are too far up the pole, something I intend to change, but the trailer and truck would stay together. I wonder how heavy the chains would need to be with some pulling close to 40k trailers.

[rickeieio]

4 hours ago, jenandjon said:

If you spend enough time on the road you would be surprised some of the things you find just by walking around your rig.

Which is why I stress learning your machine.  Walk around and look.  Not just checking air pressures and lug tightness, but while you're walking up to the rig, scan the ground for leaks.  See if anything might be dangling.

And then my pet peeve:  Turn off the music.  Quit playing with the gps.  Don't be checking the side/rear view cameras so much. Drive in silence and feel the vibes.  Your machine talks to you.  Learn when it's happy, so that when it's not, you'll know it long before the alarm goes off. (Or the hitch falls apart.) You'll be surprised how much you feel through your feet.  You farmers and pilots know what I mean.

Will someone please take this soapbox before I fall off?

Edited October 3, 2020 by rickeieio

[GeorgiaHybrid]

10 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

Will someone please take this soapbox before I fall off?

Too late 😎

[SuiteSuccess]

25 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

Which is why I stress learning your machine.  Walk around and look.  Not just checking air pressures and lug tightness, but while you're walking up to the rig, scan the ground for leaks.  See if anything might be dangling.

And then my pet peeve:  Turn off the music.  Quit playing with the gps.  Don't be checking the side/rear view cameras so much. Drive in silence and feel the vibes.  Your machine talks to you.  Learn when it's happy, so that when it's not, you'll know it long before the alarm goes off. (Or the hitch falls apart.) You'll be surprised how much you feel through your feet.  You farmers and pilots know what I mean.

Will someone please take this soapbox before I fall off?

Well put Rick.  I owned a Cessna 182 for many years. Learned to fly in it and logged 900 hrs in it.  You’re right after awhile your machine is part of you and I could feel any changes in sound or vibration.  Ten years in the truck but not quite to that point yet but getting there.

[phoenix2013]

5 hours ago, jenandjon said:

I was just about to bring that up. Pre AND post trip inspections are very important. I learned that lesson again a few weeks ago. I parked the truck and walked away. A couple days later I needed to get some grain hauled. Upon my pre trip I found a tire off the rim. It cost me a few hours that morning when quick walk around when I came home days ago would have found it. I could have fixed it during my down time. I stress to my hired help when you park that truck at night you get it ready for tomorrow. I broke my own rule.

If you spend enough time on the road you would be surprised some of the things you find just by walking around your rig.

My wife and I were pilots and aircraft owners as well as RV owners in our younger days, at the same time. No, our retirement fund did not grow substantially during those years, but boy did we have fun. Why both, we loved traveling, we had friends all over the country and events to participate in all over the country.  Airplane is great, it gets you places far and quick and back, but has no accommodations for existence once you get there. RV has those but it's slow getting there.

When you become a pilot certain things are drilled into your head besides ability to fly it. First, before you get into the aircraft, you walk around and check lots of things, there's a list for that. When you get in, there is a list for what to look for. When you turn the key on there's  a list for what to look for and settings to put in. Another list when you actually start the engine. A list before you push that throttle and start moving that aircraft. Another list before you actually taxi the aircraft onto the runway and push that throttle hard in. 

OK, so what's the point. Imagine, two pilots going RVing. The fifth is loaded with everything for the trip and stay, pickup is backed into the king pin, wife indicates that hitch sprung shut and the handle is secured. We do few last minute chores, get into the truck and take off. I take a sharp turn from the side lawn (RV spot) onto the street in front of the house. Bang, what the hell was that! We both get out and look at the hitch, hitch is fine and latched. Ah, the dumbass put down the gate to back the truck in, didn't lift it and latch it before take off. The two front compartment doors now have a nice slice in them (for optional airing), the gate edge has a divot in it. In subsequent rallies I would peek at other tailgates, if I saw that divot I would start a "conversation" with the truck owner, "yes, indeed I did 'modify' my doors too".

Wife said, "we are both pilots, how idiotic is this? I'm coming up with a 'walk around list', we both do it, independently, every time, no questions asked"!

Few years later, short trip (200 miles) to a regional Escapees Rally, friends of ours also following us to the same Rally. Return trip, wife does her walkaround, calls me, "you didn't put the padlock on the hitch handle". "It's buried someplace, I couldn't find, we are just going from here to home", I answered. The other couple is following us, they suggest that we visit her father in Connecticut (half way). We park our rigs in a commuter parking lot, her father picks us up and we have a nice visit. We return, wife gets into the drivers seat, the friends are following us. Quarter mile down, just before entering on ramp to the interstate, BANG! We stop in the middle of the road! The friends see it too, stop and come over. The king pin and the fifth are sitting in the back of the truck, held by the rim of the deck (it was a MDT conversion). It didn't take long to figure out what happened. While we were "visiting" some asshole pulled the latching handle on the hitch open. The wife takes a long look at her husband, the pilot. It wasn't a look that would kill, it didn't have to be. We dropped the legs, re-hitched and brought it home. More to that story, the fifth didn't look right after that. Eventually I dropped down the belly skin around the pinbox, the frame was cracked in several areas, the insurance company totaled the fifth.

Edited October 3, 2020 by phoenix2013

[NeverEasy]

Pictures of a Trailer Saver and Keystone Everest wreck.  I probably posted the pictures earlier.  Truck weight is 18,000.  Everest weight 14,400.  Smart around 1,900.  

Click For Full-Size Image.

 

Click For Full-Size Image.

I have often wondered if a couple of mods to the Trailer Saver would have prevented the rollover. It might have meant taking the truck over with the trailer.  With the weight difference, I don't think the truck would have rolled if the hitch held.  

The Binkley Head did not let go.  I had to pull the bolts in the trailer hitch out to get the trailer separated from the hitch.  

The welds on the Trailer Saver broke.  I inspected them and they appeared to have been solid welds.  The mod I would propose would be to limit the upward travel of the swing arm.  If the back of the swing arm would have stayed within the frame rails and not put all the leverage of the swing arm on the front welds, the hitch might not have failed.

The head of this hitch is the one I modified for Randy A.

 

Edited October 3, 2020 by NeverEasy

[rickeieio]

Was the hitch damage the cause, or result, of the incident?

[noteven]

Rick - for your survey - my fifth wheel is a Holland FW0001. 8000lbs vertical load/32,000lbs gross semi trailer weight. It has additional pin clearance to allow the use of “no lube” plastic discs on the upper fifth wheel on the trailer.

Installed in approx 1999 when truck was rigged? There is “box liner” overspray present same as the truck deck. 
The truck has approx 300,000 miles. 
I am not original owner but somewhere between new and about 280,000 miles the bulk of the total miles were made in commercial light hauling service subject to MOT/DOT safety inspections / certifications. Our safeties do not all for much wear in a fifth wheel at all...
I will not testify the FW0001 is original in every way but it kind of looks it. 
 

 

 

 

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

Chet, My old Trailersaver has 2 tabs welded on the main body that limit the upswing of the swing arm.  I know they won't hold if the 24k  trailer rolls, but it limits the upswing travel of the arm.  

[NeverEasy]

The result but perhaps a contributing factor to the end result.  The cause was some errors committed by DW.  She was in a construction zone, doing 5 under the posted limit in Oklahoma, I-40.  She saw a sign with an arrow that indicated a need to turn right.  She did and then realized it was an exit.  She started to turn back, decided it was too late and jammed on the brakes.  The trailer decided to pass the truck. We know it was perpendicular to the truck at one point because the roof of the trailer took out an exit speed limit sign 15 feet off to the side (big dent in roof of trailer).  Also  a blown front left tire (18 months old) on the trailer may have contributed to the rollover.  It was on the top of the trailer as the trailer was on its right side. The rim was mangled to pieces.  Don't know when it blew during the event.  When it blew, the TSPS went off and I jumped out of the sleeper.  The Volo barely twitched during the whole event.  Another note is that arrow sign was not accompanied by an exit sign.  We looked at all those on the rest of the trip and they all were paired.    

The worst result is that Deb will no longer drive the rig.  I did not blame her for any of it.  Stuff happens.  

There is a dash cam video on Youtube.  Look for "Volvo Pulling Everest".  Watch the right-front mirror.  Only time you can see the trailer come around the truck.

[NeverEasy]

37 minutes ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

Chet, My old Trailersaver has 2 tabs welded on the main body that limit the upswing of the swing arm.  I know they won't hold if the 24k  trailer rolls, but it limits the upswing travel of the arm.  

My new one does not have the limiter.  Insurance would only "replace" so I have a new Trailer Saver although it has three air bags and is rated heavier.  

I will have to look into adding the travel limiter.  

Now, for RandyA:  Are you willing to pull out one or both the modified pins to check for any signs of failure?  Any idea how many miles you have on the modified hitch?

[phoenix2013]

Travel limiters on hitches should not be an afterthought, they are part of "Hitch Design 1.01"

First, the airbags , be it from Firestone,  Goodyear, or whoever clearly spell out the operating limits for their airbags.

In this example 9 inches fully extended and 2.5 inches fully compressed. Why? Their specs state clearly that compressing the bellows below the minimum height will cause the bellows to come in contact with surfaces below and above and cause bellows wear leading to failure. They are far more "firm" with having an upper limit stating in BOLD LETTERS that it can lead to retaining ring failure and bag explosion. Couple of examples. Bags exploded on this TrailerSaver when the platform kept going.

Rear two airbags exploded when the platform kept going on this ET, past the stop limiters.

The instant I saw those stop plates allows this, regardless of what caused it, they were beefed up massively. Next time they were tested they did what they were supposed to do.

 

The plates held half the truck up off the pavement and the trailer in the ditch. Note that the older style Binkley head also did the job without any ill effect.