gray tank not draining

[Steve from SoCal]

I realize this is a long shot,

 

My 1996 Teton will not drain the kitchen gray tank, the valve linkage moves about as it always has with some resistance but, my pump will pull vacuum and stall.      In looking at the valve there seems to be no way to mechanical open the valve other than the linkage, short of cutting it out is there a way to drain the tank?    

 

Steve  

[HERO Maker]

Steve, you have washing machine hook ups in that Teton, I  suppose.  That means you can not just close your black tank valve and pressurize your grey line from the dump valve.  You will push that water into your laundry area.

After re-reading your post, it sounds like you have a separate drain line for the kitchen? So separate tank?   If so, you can pressurize that system until you unclog it.  But stop short of filling up your grey tank or you will push it up into the kitchen sink. (or your vent pipe under your sink if it has one, and it doesn't seal real well.

[HERO Maker]

If no go, you will have to cut your valve out.  That won't be fun!  At least it is grey water, but that can be pretty putrid if it has been setting awhile.

 

You can't snake it from the kitchen sink, that would be real lucky to exactly hit the drain from there, but you can snake it from the outlet, if your valve is partially open.  Have you tried the walmart chems?

Good luck.

[Steve from SoCal]

Hi Rocky,

 

The kitchen has it's own gray tank that is 10' from the sink.    I opened the insulation around the valve, it screws into the flanges.     I don't think it is a blockage?     I have strainer baskets on the sink and only water for the most part goes down the drain.     My hose from the flojet is clear and other than dark spots in the stream from coffee, not grounds just coffee.    

The clothes washer drain is direct to the outside, it was last on the drain pipe until I split it off.    It drains to the sewer directly.     The kitchen tank is the closest to the pump and in fact the pump is about under where the valve sits!       Looking at the drain valve and where the discharge is, it makes at least a 180 if not a 270 turn from the tank to the pump.   

 

I think the blade in the valve has separated from the actuator, linkage still has resistance like it is moving the valve?     I am going to try and open the valve in the AM, running out of light and need to source a big catch basin.  

 

   

[HERO Maker]

Are you talking about the fresh water pump?  Or a macerator pump, which I don't think they had them back then.

If you've opened up the area around the valve, just have someone else work on the cable while you work directly on the valve.

Is this Teton settin in your shop in Hutch, and could it be frozen?

[Steve from SoCal]

2 minutes ago, HERO Maker said:

Are you talking about the fresh water pump?  Or a macerator pump, which I don't think they had them back then.

If you've opened up the area around the valve, just have someone else work on the cable while you work directly on the valve.

Is this Teton settin in your shop in Hutch, and could it be frozen?

The pump I mentioned is a macerator pump on the bayonet fitting for the drain hose.

The valve has a rod to a tee handle, I can see, it goes through a hole in the frame, not sure I can actually get to the valve?  

It is a balmy 43 in here, the other valves are fine.    In looking at the specs, that tank is 40 gallons and, it is showing full, this should be fun.    I have 4-5 gallon pails and an 11 gallon tub, scrounging for more capacity.

[SuiteSuccess]

Steve,

Could you remove the “p”trap at the sink and run a hose down the pipe and use a siphon pump connected to another hose and empty that way so you can work on it?  I know you have to have a Gomco suction pump somewhere in all that medical equipment you have. 

[Kirk W]

2 hours ago, Steve from SoCal said:

  I opened the insulation around the valve, it screws into the flanges. 

I think the blade in the valve has separated from the actuator, linkage still has resistance like it is moving the valve? 

It sounds to me as though you are on the right track with the blade problem. I have seen that happen more than once over the years. The valve isn't difficult to replace, once you get the tank empty. 

[Steve from SoCal]

I have an 80 gallon stock tank somewhere, need to see if it is low enough to get under the plumbing.    I do have suction pumps but, getting a hose all the way down to the tank is another story.      The sink is 8' from the tank on the other side of the trailer there are at least 135 degrees of bends in that 12+ feet of run.    

One of the bigger challenges will be just getting to the screws that hold the valve together.    The two on the inside of the frame are really easy to access, the two outboard screws are above the bottom flange of the frame rail and, almost against the web of the frame.      This is going to be a wet ugly job no matter what.     

[Jim & Wilma]

Macerators I’ve seen have a rotating blade to break up the waste and a rubber impeller to move the waste. I can see how buildup of hair, plastic or such around the blade could stop the macerator rotation. I don’t see how an upstream blockage of waste would stall it.

If it were me, I’d try reversing the macerator power wires In an effort to run it backwards and see if that frees it. It’s a long shot for sure. Good luck. 

[HERO Maker]

Can you remove the pump and gain more access to the valve that way.  You had said," My hose from the flojet is clear and other than dark spots in the stream from coffee, not grounds just coffee."  That clear water was from the short time the pump ran?

Jim's trick might work.  Not sure if reversing the wires will reverse the motor, but worth a try.  But I'm thinking if that pump goes quiet, then something is wrong at the pump, not the valve.  Remove the pump.

[Steve from SoCal]

The pump works, I was thinking that it was a pump issue at first.    I opened the bath gray tank and it pumped fine.     The pump is pulling vacuum when it slows down.    The sound of the pump wet/dry is distinct and it is not getting fluid.     When a valve is opened you can hear the liquid flow into the the drain pipe normally, I hear no rush of liquid when I open the kitchen valve.     I time the discharge cycles to evaluate the pumps efficiency, the bath discharge time just before this problem was within a few seconds of new.     Typical cycle time for either tank is 120~150 seconds.    

I am pretty sure the valve is the culprit.

[rickeieio]

10 minutes ago, Steve from SoCal said:

   I time the discharge cycles to evaluate the pumps efficiency, the bath discharge time just before this problem was within a few seconds of new.     Typical cycle time for either tank is 120~150 seconds.   

Steve, I thought I was the only one that anal.....

[Dutch_12078]

If you can access the bolts on the valve body, slide what ever bucket or pan you have that will fit under the valve and just loosen the bolts to the where the leaking starts. That will give you a more controlled flow that you can suction with your macerator as it fills up. Once the tank is drained, you can then replace the valve or take any other needed actions without worrying about a flood.

[Steve from SoCal]

9 minutes ago, Dutch_12078 said:

If you can access the bolts on the valve body, slide what ever bucket or pan you have that will fit under the valve and just loosen the bolts to the where the leaking starts. That will give you a more controlled flow that you can suction with your macerator as it fills up. Once the tank is drained, you can then replace the valve or take any other needed actions without worrying about a flood.

That is my plan, was not sure of the ability to modulate the flow.     The two screws that are feel only are the wild cards.

 

[Steve from SoCal]

20 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

Steve, I thought I was the only one that anal.....

Great minds think alike😁

[Dutch_12078]

52 minutes ago, Steve from SoCal said:

That is my plan, was not sure of the ability to modulate the flow.     The two screws that are feel only are the wild cards.

 

Just crack the "feel only" bolts a couple of threads and then loosen the bottom ones a thread or two at a time until you get a manageable flow that your pump can keep up with. If the flow starts to get too much tighten the bottom bolts up some. Better too little flow than too much. You can always cycle the pump as needed.

[Steve from SoCal]

Sitting here warming my hands after doing all the precursor work, I have 40 gallons of pails if needed.    When I took off the macerator pump there is a coating of slime along the side of the drain pipe.     I wonder if a bit of caustic after this is back together would take care of that?      The piping and valves all seem to be black ABS, the pump impeller/seal are the questionable items?   

 I had to remove the pump to have good drain access to the valve, the pump is free but, it is not submersible.     I can try the pump but, not sure I will be able to pump the gray water?       The fall back is to fill buckets and empty them in the shop bathroom.     That was the reason for all the buckets, it is a 200 foot walk with an obstacle course around the camper to the drain.     The pump goes to another drain that is 100 feet away but far worse to get to.   

Time to dive in,  hope this goes well!!!😝 

[Wrknrvr]

  When you get it flowing again I would suggest using Simple Green cleaner to clean the inside of the tank,

 just pour about 3 cups into the sink and flush down with 10 or so gallons of water. Do this with the valve closed. It is a degreaser that takes time to work. I would do several treatments. It will get rid of that scum inside the pipes and in the tank.

 

 I just did our gray water tank today as the bathroom sink was slow going down yesterday.

 

  No swearing today on that job,    Vern

[Steve from SoCal]

Well,

The drain valve is OK, there was, is something upstream of the valve.     I took a piece of 1/4" air line and snaked it up the elbows to the tank.     Blasted a little air and I got some flow, it is still only draining maybe a gallon a minute.    

I am going to take the valve out and try getting some larger tubing up the drain like an auger.    The blockage had to be tough enough to hold back 30+ gallons of water?     

[Dutch_12078]

The blockage may be the piece cut out that wasn't retrieved when the drain line fitting was attached to the tank. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened after working fine for years.

[adept99]

Pardon me for arriving late to the party, but...

When we had that same problem, after several disgusting episodes, I go a really good look at the valve in question and realized that the cable had a kink which made me think that the issue was the valve because of the resistance in trying to open or close the valve. 

The valve is a sandwich valve. Has a flange face on the pipe side, and a flat face on the valve blade side. I bought a new cable and a new set of guts for the valve. 

Loosen but don't remove the valve body screws (should be 4). With a little wiggling, you should be able to pull the blade out. Minor clean up, replace the cable, install the new blade, tighten flange screws & give 'er a little test.

Not exactly right, but you get the idea. This valve is a bit different than what I suggested, but it should get you aimed in the right direction.

https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Sewer/LaSalle-Bristol/34466N11AB36GM.html

Edited December 1, 2019 by adept99

[Steve from SoCal]

I think I am going to replace the valve based on age and difficulty factor.    I pulled my macerator apart to inspect it and I will put a new impeller in, it is loose on the shaft.   

The RV store down on Hwy 50 should have both of these in stock tomorrow.   

 

[Steve from SoCal]

Paul,

In looking at your link, my valve is rod actuated but, that is neither here nor there.    The FRAME is preventing removal as you suggest.     The frame has a 2X2" window where the rod go through, the valve body is trapped by the frame.

 

[Wrknrvr]

  I have seen that buildup in the 3” drain line when we use a macerator pump over time. I did discover using Simple Green dissolves it with a little time.

 

 this is grease from a ham that we had for thanks giving. The grease was put in the container Friday am and set outside till yesterday morning. Notice how it is sticking to the side of the glass.

 

 so this photo is about 4 hours later. All I did was to add some Simple Green. It has stayed in the same spot since it was sit there. There is only water, pork grease and simple green in the bottle.

 I will take a photo in a little while to see if the thinness has changed.

 

Hope this is helpful,    Vern

Edited December 2, 2019 by Wrknrvr
New photo