kudzu Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 Several motor homes built on the Sprinter chassis appeal to my wife and me but, based on what I have been able to find on-line, the numbers look really marginal. And, if it is too good to be true... The following numbers are always cited: 11,030 GVWR 15,250 GCWR 4,410 Front GAWR 7,720 Rear GAWR 5,000 lb Rated Hitch with 500 lb Vertical Tongue Weight What I have not seen are curb weight or OCCC numbers. Besides the weight considerations, there is the horsepower issue. The popularity of the little Sprinter-based coaches is encouraging, and I would like for one of them to work for us. Obviously, others are quite happy with theirs. Based on the partial figures I have found, I just cannot see how a Sprinter-based RV is going to satisfactorily haul two old folks and their necessities, including a small toad of some kind, over hill and dale. Can you help out? Save us from a big ol' E-450! Me, a stranger? Nah, just a friend you haven't met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orvil Hazelton Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 When considering the CCC of the Sprinter, remember to include the weight of your tow vehicle to the GCWR. You may only have a tow weighing 3000 lb or so, but this will effect your total weight. With the Mercedes diesel it should pull the hills OK, albeit slowly. Be sure to gear down. By the way, we drove a Ford 350 class C coach for 16 years with very few issues. That 'ole 460 engine just kept on going with 173,000 miles on it. We chose not to tow with it because with any vehicle we'd choose to tow it wouldn't have allowed enough to also carry our "stuff". oRV 75065 Lifetime Member 2010 Phaeton 40 QTH 2014 Honda CR-V Toad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-n-Dennis Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 You are correct, its tight but doable - sort of. Throw out curb weight, it is unrealistic and really doesn't give you the information you need. Instead, go with real world, real weight ie; Make sure the fuel, DEF, propane, and water tanks are full. Put yourself, your wife and any traveling pets in the rig and go get it weighed. Make sure to do the split on front and rear axles. Subtract that from the 11,030 and you'll get your total cargo carrying capacity INSIDE the rig. No matter the rating, the maximum toad weight is 4220 (GCWR - GVWR) unless you want to reduce your CCC. [Some would argue about the full tanks but by keeping them full you have a built in safety margin if you have to bug out. Simply dump the gray and drain the fresh.] I'm guessing here but I'm thinking you'll have about 660lbs for cargo and from our practical experience (had a 2008 Gulf Stream Vista Mini Cruiser) this is not bad for extended weekend (2 weeks max) trips but we wouldn't recommend it for full timing and at that, the weather would have to be nice enough to allow a good portion of outside time. Berkshire XL 40QL Camphosting and touring Our blog: cndtravels.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudzu Posted July 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 52 minutes ago, Orvil Hazelton said: "When considering the CCC of the Sprinter, remember to include the weight of your tow vehicle to the GCWR." ... "With the Mercedes diesel it should pull the hills OK, albeit slowly." ... "By the way, we drove a Ford 350 class C coach for 16 years with very few issues. That 'ole 460 engine just kept on going with 173,000 miles on it." Thank you, Orville! The addition of a towed vehicle to the equation was a large part of my concern. And, some of the places we most want to go involve hills and mountains. I fear, "albeit slowly" would get old quickly. For years I pulled my daughter's ponies and horses around with an F-250 with the 460 c.i. gas engine. With a two-horse trailer, even with a couple of big fellas riding back there, it did not complain about the hills. Except for a fuel pump problem, I never had a moment's trouble with it in 90K+ miles. Me, a stranger? Nah, just a friend you haven't met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudzu Posted July 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Chris-n-Dennis said: You are correct, its tight but doable - sort of. Thank you, Chris-n-Dennis! That is the most accurate and succinct statement possible of my conclusion after reading and digesting everything I could find on-line. As sexy as the little Sprinter-based coaches are, I do not think my wife and I would be happy with the weight and power compromises. Me, a stranger? Nah, just a friend you haven't met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-n-Dennis Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 We towed a 2014 Jeep Patriot, weight: 3450 lbs behind ours and really did have plenty of power, just not fast power or a screaming engine and that's considering doing Teton Pass, 4th of July Pass and a couple of others in the northern rockies. Power to pull was not the issue, but I would be the first to jump on an engine braking system with one of them if we ever downsized. Berkshire XL 40QL Camphosting and touring Our blog: cndtravels.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandsys Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 One of the things we liked about our Sprinters was we didn't need to tow because they could be parked nearly anywhere. Stopping for groceries and/or laundry when moving from one campsite to another just became routine. My primary advice about buying any rig is to make a trip over a truck scale part of the test drive. Knowing its true capacity before you buy is priceless. When a salesperson insisted on going with us for the test drive we made him get out before we drove onto the scale. Linda Sand Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/ Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 First, let me welcome you to the Escapee forums! One thing that is very important to keep in mind when you consider the choices is the fact that the Sprinter is diesel and as such has better torque than most gasoline engines. I have not owned a Sprinter, but have knows several owners and they have all been more than satisfied. Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce t Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Sprinters are very popular all around the world. Both as commercial vehicles and RVs. They are 'almost' bullet proof. We owned a long wheel base commercial van and it exceeded all our expectations. And. And it was more than capable of getting the occasional speeding ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudzu Posted July 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 12 hours ago, sandsys said: My primary advice about buying any rig is to make a trip over a truck scale part of the test drive. Knowing its true capacity before you buy is priceless. Even the possibility of doing that would not have occurred to me. That would be ideal! Me, a stranger? Nah, just a friend you haven't met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudzu Posted July 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 12 hours ago, Kirk Wood said: One thing that is very important to keep in mind when you consider the choices is the fact that the Sprinter is diesel and as such has better torque than most gasoline engines. That is exactly what was giving me a spark of hope in spite of the numbers. When I view the facts as I wish they were, I am all excited about the Sprinter-based coach. In more realistic moments, I fear I would regret that choice. The final outcome will likely be decided where, in that cycle, I am when I commit. And, of course, SWMBO, who is also the family CFO, has a lot of say in this decision. Me, a stranger? Nah, just a friend you haven't met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Joyce Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 The Mercedes engine works with B5 diesel and they do not recommend using the more common B20 diesel. https://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalAssets/pdfmb/serviceandparts/biodiesel_Brochure5.pdf says this: Mercedes-Benz USA approves the use of B5 according to ASTM specification D975 [Ultra-Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) with a maximum of up to 5% biodiesel] in all Common Rail Injection (CDI) and BlueTEC® diesel engines. The only approved processed biodiesel for B5 blending is one that meets the ASTM D6751 specification, to prevent damage to the engine and fuel system from deposits and/or corrosion. The use of diesel fuels containing a higher percentage of biodiesel, (B6 to B20) according to ASTM D7467 as well as straight biodiesel (B100) according to ASTM D6751 may cause severe damage to your engine and fuel system, and are not approved by Mercedes-Benz. The Mercedes-Benz New Vehicle Limited Warranty generally does not cover damage caused by the use of fuels that do not meet Mercedes-Benz approved fuel standards. I 2004 40' Newmar Dutch Star DP towing an AWD 2020 Ford Escape Hybrid, Fulltimer July 2003 to October 2018, Parttimer now. Travels through much of 2013 - http://www.sacnoth.com - Bill, Diane and Evita (the cat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudzu Posted July 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 28 minutes ago, Bill Joyce said: The Mercedes engine works with B5 diesel and they do not recommend using the more common B20 diesel. Thank you, Bill! This is clearly important information and must be considered. I have read that finding B5 in the U.S. is not a problem. Since I read it on the Internet, it HAS to be true, right?! Seriously, do you see it differently or what are you telling me? Me, a stranger? Nah, just a friend you haven't met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Joyce Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 21 minutes ago, kudzu said: Thank you, Bill! This is clearly important information and must be considered. I have read that finding B5 in the U.S. is not a problem. Since I read it on the Internet, it HAS to be true, right?! Seriously, do you see it differently or what are you telling me? I run a Cummins diesel that can handle B20, plus we have a 150 gallon tank. Since we have a big rig, we often fuel with the trucks and many of those pumps are labeled B20. You would have more options with a Sprinter, due to size, but I am no expert. 2004 40' Newmar Dutch Star DP towing an AWD 2020 Ford Escape Hybrid, Fulltimer July 2003 to October 2018, Parttimer now. Travels through much of 2013 - http://www.sacnoth.com - Bill, Diane and Evita (the cat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandsys Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Bill Joyce said: The Mercedes engine works with B5 diesel and they do not recommend using the more common B20 diesel. That's why I stopped fueling at Flying J. They upped their diesel to B20. In the Upper Midwest I fueled at Holiday. In the South and West I fueled at Valero. Be sure to pick ones near freeways, though, as ones further away sometimes have pretty old fuel. I also discovered that stations that advertise no ethanol often have non-bio diesel. Linda Sand Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/ Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff & Suzanne Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 Hi Kudzu. . .take a look at our posts in the Class B and the Class C topics on this forum. We don't pull a toad because, as Linda Sand mentioned, we can park our Phoenix 2400 Sprinter pretty much anywhere. We have just adjusted our RV lifestyle to get the shopping done before we get to our destination; but if we do need to break camp to re-provision or go see something, we use quick detachable water fittings and other "break camp quick" things that we are comfortable with. We use Anderson levelers https://www.amazon.com/Andersen-Hitches-3604-Camper-Leveler/dp/B001GC2LVM when possible which make leveling easy. As for climbing hills, our six cylinder diesel does it with power to spare; and we get 13 to 15 mpg pretty much all the time. After a bunch of research and a factory tour, we chose Phoenix Cruiser because of their service reputation, build methods and longevity of being in the business. Jeff and Suzanne with Scout and Sydney, the Cocker Spaniel Sisters touring in Fawkes the 2012 Phoenix Cruiser 2400 Sprinter "What happens in Vagueness, stays in Vagueness" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudzu Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 Jeff and Suzanne, thanks for a lot of food for thought! Going with a Sprinter-based RV and doing without a toad is something we have considered. I had not looked at Phoenix Cruiser's Sprinter-based models, but have spent a lot of time looking at and thinking about their 2551 on the E-450 chassis. It seems to me here is a lot to like about Phoenix Cruiser RV's. We are going to do something but, right now, we are still all over the place as to what. After countless hours of research and discussion, I thought we were settled on a 25'ish-foot motor home on the E-450 chassis. Last night, right at bedtime, bleary-eyed and confused from studying that subject too long, my wife says, "maybe we should consider a travel trailer again." That gave me severe mental whiplash! But, having committed to nothing, we are free to consider all possibilities. In other words, I do not know where we will windup. Me, a stranger? Nah, just a friend you haven't met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff & Suzanne Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 50 minutes ago, kudzu said: Jeff and Suzanne, thanks for a lot of food for thought! Going with a Sprinter-based RV and doing without a toad is something we have considered. I had not looked at Phoenix Cruiser's Sprinter-based models, but have spent a lot of time looking at and thinking about their 2551 on the E-450 chassis. It seems to me here is a lot to like about Phoenix Cruiser RV's. LOL. . .we know what you mean. We started looking at RV's in 1995 when we had a tricked out van with a microwave, fridge and hand pump sink and wanted something better. We ran the gamut from popups to Class A and all in between. It's a fun but not easy road. Good luck to you. Jeff and Suzanne with Scout and Sydney, the Cocker Spaniel Sisters touring in Fawkes the 2012 Phoenix Cruiser 2400 Sprinter "What happens in Vagueness, stays in Vagueness" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobo John Posted July 5, 2017 Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 On 7/3/2017 at 0:25 PM, sandsys said: That's why I stopped fueling at Flying J. They upped their diesel to B20. In the Upper Midwest I fueled at Holiday. In the South and West I fueled at Valero. Be sure to pick ones near freeways, though, as ones further away sometimes have pretty old fuel. I also discovered that stations that advertise no ethanol often have non-bio diesel. Linda Sand I was looking through the iExit app and online at gasbuddy.com and i didnt see anywhere whether their diesel listing was B5 or B20 - only prices. Is this info online or do folks just drive up and hope for the best? If you have experience calling ahead, has that been successful? I'm wondering whether someone answering the phone would know this or would know how to find out. SKP# 136386 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakbob Posted July 5, 2017 Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 We drove our Wini -Sprinter 126,000 miles , mostly pulling a 12 foot cargo trailer . We drove 5 states on a route that included eastern mountains working craft shows , Certainly enough power to climb as well or better than the tractor trailer rigs . Our trailer loaded weighed in at about 6,500 lbs . Millions of these trucks climbing mountains all over the world , it ain't like it is all up hill . Ours was an 07 with the 5 cylinder engine , would probably still be driving it except it got struck by lightning , and insurance took it away from us . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandsys Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 On 7/5/2017 at 3:45 PM, Matilda and John said: I was looking through the iExit app and online at gasbuddy.com and i didnt see anywhere whether their diesel listing was B5 or B20 - only prices. Is this info online or do folks just drive up and hope for the best? If you have experience calling ahead, has that been successful? I'm wondering whether someone answering the phone would know this or would know how to find out. Originally I just drove up and looked for the sticker on the pumps. Once I eliminated Flying J then discovered Holiday and Valero I just went there. Some Valero stations don't have diesel, though, so you are still taking your chances. I rarely make phone calls so that didn't even occur to me. Linda Sand Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/ Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbaraok Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 So Cummins builds a better diesel than Mercedes. Interesting Barb & Dave O'Keeffe 2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 14 hours ago, Barbaraok said: So Cummins builds a better diesel than Mercedes. Interesting Do you avoid B20 or even concern yourself with the amount of bio-fuel in your diesel fuel with the engine that you have? My truck is a 2003 Cummins and I really haven't given that a lot of thought. Just so it is clear, biodiesel does not contain any ethanol, but rather has a vegetable or animal fats added, per this link. Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff & Suzanne Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 We have traveled From Florida to Illinois when we brought our 2012 Phoenix Cruiser Sprinter home; since then Illinois to TN, KY, NC, IN, MO, OK, AR, TX. . .well, you get the idea. We avoided way-off-the-road diesel pump places, and usually chose Valero and other fuel stops that had pay at the pump diesel, since having to walk into a truck stop cashier's counter is tough on my mobility issues. In every fuel stop, we had no problems with the diesel and never really noticed whether it was B20 or B5 or whatever. Just sayin'. . . Jeff and Suzanne with Scout and Sydney, the Cocker Spaniel Sisters touring in Fawkes the 2012 Phoenix Cruiser 2400 Sprinter "What happens in Vagueness, stays in Vagueness" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertraveler Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 The stickers on the pumps that indicate the percentage of biodiesel in the fuel are often small. The two most common ones that we have encounter state that the fuel contains up to 5% or that it can contain between 11-20% biofuel. At one point, Flying J had announced that all their fuel would contain up to 20% bio and in our travels through numerous states East Coast to the Rockies that seemed to be true. Since my truck owner's manual says not to use over 5%, we stopped fueling at Flying Js. Some Murphy's stations now carry only biodiesel and in my experience if they do it is always labeled 11-20%. So far, the Kroger chains (Smith's, Fry's, Dillon's, etc.) and their convenience store chains (Turkey Hill, etc.) have not carried biodiesel. Their fuel card helps with a discount to their usually competitive pricing and you can use a cashback credit card. I can not recall encountering biodiesel at Shell stations. Shell also has a discount program that gives 3-5 cents per gallon and lets you use most credit cards including those that give cashback on fuel. In our travels through Missouri and Illinois the past couple of years, it has been hard to find pumps not labelled with the 11-20% sticker. As I said, the sticker can be small and even though I try to look carefully, I have on occasion not noticed the sticker before starting to pump fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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