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Running motor while parked


Twotoes

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Not sure if this is the right place to post but here goes. I purchased a new to me class A diesel pusher about 3 months ago. I am full time and will be parked in a space for about 3 months. I know that I should run the generator for about 20 minutes every month but should I also run the motor? Thanks in advance for all your suggestions.

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13 minutes ago, Twotoes said:

Not sure if this is the right place to post but here goes. I purchased a new to me class A diesel pusher about 3 months ago. I am full time and will be parked in a space for about 3 months. I know that I should run the generator for about 20 minutes every month but should I also run the motor? Thanks in advance for all your suggestions.

In the 4 1/2 months we were parked this past winter in Texas, we did not start the big motor or the generator.  We do however, use our generator extensively when we are travel around during the providing electric to the coach so we can use the roof ac's, run the residential fridge, etc.  We average 2-300 hrs yrl on our generator and service it yrly.  I would also recommend you get a diesel fuel stabilizer, such as Biobor,(a small bottle will last a long time) and put some in your tank when sitting for extended periods to help minimize slime build up in the tank.     https://www.amazon.com/Biobor-JF-Diesel-Fuel-Biocide/dp/B007ILFKS6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1498086002&sr=8-1&keywords=biobor

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1 hour ago, bob91yj said:

I would start both and let them run for 15 minutes or so once a month or so just to keep the seals lubricated, burn any condensation out of the engine oil etc.

NO.  Worse thing you can do to a big diesel is start it and not take it out and run it for 30 minutes minimum at normal road speeds.    If you can't take it out, fill up the fuel tank, shut her down, and don't start again UNTIL you are ready to get out on the road.   As for the generator, you need to run it at least 30 minutes (1 hr is better) with at least 1/2 load. 

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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2 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

NO.  Worse thing you can do to a big diesel is start it and not take it out and run it for 30 minutes minimum at normal road speeds.    If you can't take it out, fill up the fuel tank, shut her down, and don't start again UNTIL you are ready to get out on the road.   As for the generator, you need to run it at least 30 minutes (1 hr is better) with at least 1/2 load. 

That depends, on a newer truck with DEF they need to driven at a minimum every two to three weeks and get warmed up. I have several friends in the HDT repair world that love it when you don't run them often. DEF dosier, NOX sensors, DEF filters and DPF filters keep them employed and taking a LOT of vacations to exotic places.

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55 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

Worse thing you can do to a big diesel is start it and not take it out and run it for 30 minutes minimum at normal road speeds.    If you can't take it out, fill up the fuel tank, shut her down, and don't start again UNTIL you are ready to get out on the road.

2

Actually, I was given that same advice from the Ford tech hotline on our gasoline coach. He states that the worst thing that you can do to a modern engine is to start it and let it idle without driving it. If you do start it, then go out on the highway for at least 20 to 30 minutes at highway speeds to get it fully up to operating temperatures. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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I used to worry about starting my Diesel. Because people would say, you are going to shorten it's life. So, instead of 400K to maybe I will only get 350K miles. I no longer listen to people about the shorten life of a diesel. 

I don't mind starting it, when I work on it, nor when I just what to do some testing. 

Most of the shops will run it very often while they are working on it, instead of taking it out and driving it.

Even in today's diesel in automobiles, they are now design to overcome the driver. 

 

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I agree that diesel's should have a load on them when run, turn on the AC and a couple of high draw electrical loads and that should be adequate to prevent cylinder glazing or wash down.  For my $$$ I'd still start it and let the fluids circulate some, get a film of oil back on to lubricated parts that have gone dry..  If equipped with a "high idle" switch, turn that on. 

It's true that modern engines do not require a warm up period like older carbureted engines did, that's generally on a day to day operation.

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6 minutes ago, bob91yj said:

I agree that diesel's should have a load on them when run, turn on the AC and a couple of high draw electrical loads and that should be adequate to prevent cylinder glazing or wash down.  For my $$$ I'd still start it and let the fluids circulate some, get a film of oil back on to lubricated parts that have gone dry..  If equipped with a "high idle" switch, turn that on. 

It's true that modern engines do not require a warm up period like older carbureted engines did, that's generally on a day to day operation.

I like to put on the exhaust brake for a load if I have to idle for a load. if you can

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1 hour ago, gatorcq said:

I used to worry about starting my Diesel. Because people would say, you are going to shorten it's life. So, instead of 400K to maybe I will only get 350K miles. I no longer listen to people about the shorten life of a diesel. 

I don't mind starting it, when I work on it, nor when I just what to do some testing. 

Most of the shops will run it very often while they are working on it, instead of taking it out and driving it.

Even in today's diesel in automobiles, they are now design to overcome the driver. 

 

But that shop knows that once done, the owner is going to DRIVE that vehicle again.  

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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59 minutes ago, Ed ke6bnl said:

I like to put on the exhaust brake for a load if I have to idle for a load. if you can

How does that get all of the working parts in the whole engine lubricated, up to working temperatures, etc.   Have you asked Cummins about that procedure?

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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1 hour ago, bob91yj said:

I agree that diesel's should have a load on them when run, turn on the AC and a couple of high draw electrical loads and that should be adequate to prevent cylinder glazing or wash down.  For my $$$ I'd still start it and let the fluids circulate some, get a film of oil back on to lubricated parts that have gone dry..  If equipped with a "high idle" switch, turn that on. 

It's true that modern engines do not require a warm up period like older carbureted engines did, that's generally on a day to day operation.

Are you talking about the engine or the generator.  For the engine you need to get it out and up to normal driving speeds for 30 minutes or so.  For generators, yes the AC would be fine, or a heater (if it is winter) running and make some popcorn in the microwave, etc.  

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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4 hours ago, bob91yj said:

I would start both and let them run for 15 minutes or so once a month or so just to keep the seals lubricated, burn any condensation out of the engine oil etc.

Cummins states to only start their engine if you can drive the vehicle until reaching to normal operating temperature for at least 20 minutes. They further state; an engine at low idle will never reach normal operating temperature, and in fact will slightly cool when idled after driving. That is in my Cummins ISC owners manual.

 

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The worst thing that most motorhome owners do to their engines is the "dry start" according to an RV maintenance seminar at the Dallas RV Show a few years ago. They defined a dry start as one in which the engine oil has drained to the point that nearly all lubrication effect is lost. They told us that in their testing it takes about 2 weeks for most engines to loose nearly all trace lubrication. Looking at the notes I have from that seminar, the speaker said that this issue was pretty much the same for either gasoline or diesel engines. He stated that the largest of industrial engines have pre-lube systems to circulate oil before starting for that reason. 

They also indicated that no vehicle engine ever gets up to normal operating temperatures without being driven under load for at least 20 minutes at highway speeds and pointed out that engines used for frequent short trips typically fail if far fewer miles than those used mostly on the highways. He stated that the same is true for an automatic transmission. It was his opinion that it takes 10 to 20 miles at highway speeds to drive off any collected moisture from condensation in either the transmission or engine, He said that starting and idling tended to increase the amount of moisture from condensation collecting in engines and transmissions. 

Unfortunately, I didn't write down who the speaker was and I only remember that he seemed to know his subject. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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FWIW its been some time but my step father and I used to own and lease diesel trucks and we were advised to exercise an engine on a regular basis BUT ONLY IF you drove them a sufficient time to achieve operating temps iE don't just start and let idle and think you did a great thing. On a genset I start and run them UNDER LOAD for at least say 30 minutes once a month. A dry start when enough time has passed there's little oil film left is hard on an engine in my opinion. If there's no pre lube pump system to avoid such If available I like to 1) Use oil filters that have the anti drain back valve feature,,,,,,,,,,,,,,2) Use oil such as Castrol Magnatek that "supposedly if you believe advertising" leaves more of an oil film residue on bearing surfaces,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,3) Use snake oil like Lucas Stabilizer that again if you believe advertising leaves more of an oil film residue on bearings.

 I'm NOT saying if the above works or don't work whatsoever, do as you like, its just a practice I use and cant prove nor disprove if it helps any if at all, just a thought to ponder. To each their own

 John T

 

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I'm new around here, my back story, I was in the Navy for 13 years, MM1(SW), I worked in the engine room on 1200PSI super heated steam (975*F) plants, after that, I was an Allison Transmission field service tech for 10 years, some Detroit Diesel experience while working for an Allison Transmission distributor.  I currently work at a Cadillac dealership.  I'm pretty good at what I do, career changes have back stories, another time, another place.

I have had frequent heated discussions over the years with engineers over design operating parameters and real world operating conditions.

In my head, a Cummins engineer stating that dry conditions occur in two weeks, AND dry starting is the worst thing you can do to an engine (I agree with that)...why would they not recommend starting the engine every two weeks just to keep parts lubricated (as was my theory, but on a monthly basis)?   Sure, normal operating temps would be great to obtain, but certainly not required to keep rotating parts and their seals lubed.

A little more food for thought, if engineers are so accurate in their designs, why do we need service departments!

It's the internet guys, I'm attempting to be humorous, but have a serious discussion at the same time...campfire style!

 

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If you are in farm country, ask the farmers if they go out and turn over the diesel motors on all of the big farm equipment during the winter.     The strange look you will get will be a strange look and usually a He** no.   I've never seen anything from Cummins (either at rallies or in my operating manual) that says the engine has to be turned over every two weeks - in fact the opposite, do not start unless you are going to get out and move on the road for 20-30 minutes.    We try to schedule  taking the coach out about every 2 months during the winter 6 month stay in AZ.  Usually drive to have maintenance done, or to get something fixed, some renovation done, or just get her out and get everything charged up (stop in an empty parking lot and run generator for an hour or so) and then put her back in storage, throw the disconnect switches, cover windows, tires, wiper blades, and see her again in another 2 months or so. 

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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8 hours ago, bob91yj said:

I have had frequent heated discussions over the years with engineers over design operating parameters and real world operating conditions.

While my background (also starting in the Navy) is electromechanical, I have had that discussion many times. I used to tell the designers that we techs are the ones who make the equipment work in spite of the way it was designed.  :D That is the very reason that I got my information for the service side of RV community. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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I only use Mobil 1 synthetic in my coach's gas engine and have been told that it leaves a better film (longer lasting) than conventional oil and you won't have as many dry starts. Is this true?

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   aunut, I heard and read the same thing about Castrol Magnatek Synthetic Oil and Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer IE it "supposedly" leaves a better longer lasting film of oil on bearing surfaces which "supposedly" reduces dry start problems, is it true or not ??????????????????? I wouldn't bet the farm one way or the other lol and exact scientific proof or disproof hmmmmmmmmmmm. REGARDLESS I use BOTH and I'm stickin to it since its not very expensive.  As far as what brand of oil or which if any additives, I wouldn't try and convince anyone, to each their own choices.

  John T

 

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4 hours ago, oldjohnt said:

I heard and read the same thing about Castrol Magnatek Synthetic Oil and Lucas Synthetic Oil

Part of the problem is that it can be very difficult to prove what has been prevented. I don't use them, but I do wonder sometimes. My diesel truck has been running Lucas diesel fuel treatment in every third tank since new and so I have continued, just to be sure.  ;)

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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When we farmed we only started the engine when we needed to.  Some of our equipment was pretty old but still ran fine.  I have read that the correct method to start a deisel engine that has not been used for awhile is to cutoff the fuel and crank it to allow the oil to circulate before starting it.  I don't start our truck unless I am going somewhere.  We have owned it for a number of years and the last time it was started it ran fine.

Randy

2001 Volvo VNL 42 Cummins ISX Autoshift

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Cummins engines have utilized their ECM to prevent startup until it detects oil pressure for many years now. I forget the year the change was made. The ECM detects oil pressure before being displayed by the pressure gauge in some instances. My 1999 Cummins ISC owners manual states that anyway.

Prior to the ECM modification, one had to disconnect the fuel solenoid until oil pressure registered.

 

2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country.  John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961

 

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Not all owners come back as soon as the work is done. maybe a day, week or even a month before it is driven again. 

 

Let's state some real facts within the last 10 years. From real owners.

Who have really experience a problem that has concrete proof, that running / starting the Diesel has caused a shorten life ? 

 

In the real world this is how we engineers would gather information. 

Susan & Dale
DaGirls Rv 2008 Alfa Gold SoLong ISL 425 Cummins
2015 Ford F-150 XLT Tow / Roadmaster Setup
1600W@45Vdc Magnum Inv/Chg&Solar

880AmpHr
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