17.5" rims for trailer

[lockmup68]

Hi all,

Cross posting in 5th wheel and here, figured most with heavy trailers are in this forum, so should ask here. 

I'm upgrading to 17.5 inch rims and tires. I'm going with the Hercules H-902 tires, 6008 lb rating and L speed rating (75 mph). I can find the tires, but for rims that support the weight rating, so far all I can find is the Hi-Spec Series 03 HDs. No one has these in stock and the factory says they don't have any scheduled production date for a couple of months. 

Any other options out there for a rim that supports the 6k weight rating? 

Thanks,

Shannon

[billr]

Try trailer tires and wheels in Ohio. 

http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com

Not sure they have what you want but they might. They should be familiar. 

[lockmup68]

thanks. Tried them. besides the hispec rim, all other rims are 4850 lbs rated. 

[SuiteSuccess]

Vision wheels go up to 4700-4800 lbs but not 6000.  Do you really need 6000 lbs per wheel?  Not criticizing just asking.  Your rim would then be the limiting factor not the tire.  Most of us running 17.5 inch wheels have weights for each wheel position and inflate tires according to weight charts based on that weight.  Rarely is that max cold inflation pressure of the tire although it may be.  Maybe I'm missing something so please educate me.

[rickeieio]

As per Billr above, look here: http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com/17.5-Aluminum-Trailer-Wheels

The heavier rated (and more expensive) wheels are towards the bottom of the page.  I only looked at one wheel, but it was rated 6050#.

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

Southwest Wheel Co sells the Alcoa 17.5".  It lists the wheel for 7000 lbs axles but that is because of the stud piloted 9/16" studs.  The actual wheel is for the full rating for a 17.5" rim.  The normal studs are 5/8" for a hub piloted wheel.

[CHIEFWAHO]

https://trailerpartsunlimited.com/wheels-rims-accessories/

 

[rdickinson]

Whatever wheels you get make sure they do not have a lacquered finish, it cracks. like a spiderweb and the mfgr won't go good for it.

[lockmup68]

5 hours ago, rickeieio said:

As per Billr above, look here: http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com/17.5-Aluminum-Trailer-Wheels

The heavier rated (and more expensive) wheels are towards the bottom of the page.  I only looked at one wheel, but it was rated 6050#.

 

That's the one they don't have. 

[lockmup68]

5 hours ago, CHIEFWAHO said:

https://trailerpartsunlimited.com/wheels-rims-accessories/

 

 

Bingo. Thank you. This place never came up in search. My google-fu must be lacking.

[Big5er]

I'm with Carl. Why do you want the more expensive rims? Assuming your Teton has 9000lb axles in it the 4850 lbs rims will put you over the max carrying capacity for your axles. And whats the GVWR on your trailer? It's 24000lbs, right? The 4850lb rims put you just over 29000. Just because your tires can carry 6000lbs each doesn't mean the rest of your trailer can. 

[lockmup68]

I figured the rims needed to match the rating of the tires. Due to timing, I ended up getting the 4850 lb rims with the 6005 lb rated Hercules tires. Like you said, that will give me 29k of rim rating total, 9,700 lbs per axle. I wasn't trying to say I needed all 6k of tires for weight, just safety factor for blowouts. I was thinking of upgrading axles at some point if needed. Trailer is 24k GVWR with 3 7k axles. Yes, I tend to overbuild everything. On my other flatbed trailer, design called for 5200 lb axles and I put 10k axles on it. I like safety margin. Same reason I always carry two spares.

[SuiteSuccess]

Nothing wrong with safety margin and over engineering.  That is why we pull with HDTs.

[Big5er]

9 hours ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Nothing wrong with safety margin and over engineering.  That is why we pull with HDTs.

Exactly!! 

[Tireman9]

On 4/3/2017 at 4:53 PM, SuiteSuccess said:

Vision wheels go up to 4700-4800 lbs but not 6000.  Do you really need 6000 lbs per wheel?  Not criticizing just asking.  Your rim would then be the limiting factor not the tire.  Most of us running 17.5 inch wheels have weights for each wheel position and inflate tires according to weight charts based on that weight.  Rarely is that max cold inflation pressure of the tire although it may be.  Maybe I'm missing something so please educate me.

While it is a good idea to know the actual load on each tire, the better practice is to inflate all tires on an axle to the same inflation. This is done to achieve similar handling and stopping response from the tires.

RE inflation level In trailer application the suspension design results in Interply Shear (forces trying to tear belts off the tire body) that are significantly higher than seen in Motorhome application. Running higher inflation can lower these forces. In your case that would be the max wheel rating.

[Pete Kildow]

Know this is late. But you could have checked with Rickson. Rickson 17.5's Also there was a set of the 17.5's on ebay for sale a few days ago. I have a set of the Old style Rickson 19.5's. That I ran for years when hauling a big Truck camper around. There good wheels for sure.

Pete

[Pete Kildow]

On 4/4/2017 at 7:05 AM, lockmup68 said:

I figured the rims needed to match the rating of the tires. Due to timing, I ended up getting the 4850 lb rims with the 6005 lb rated Hercules tires. Like you said, that will give me 29k of rim rating total, 9,700 lbs per axle. I wasn't trying to say I needed all 6k of tires for weight, just safety factor for blowouts. I was thinking of upgrading axles at some point if needed. Trailer is 24k GVWR with 3 7k axles. Yes, I tend to overbuild everything. On my other flatbed trailer, design called for 5200 lb axles and I put 10k axles on it. I like safety margin. Same reason I always carry two spares.

Makes me wonder if you owned the company that built my Dump trailer? HAHA Its rated for 15,000 lbs. But has dual 12,000 lb axles under it. And 3"x8" Tube frame, Trailer only weights 2950 lbs. And again rated for 15,000 lbs. Why in the world did they in 1979 think they needed 12,000 lb axles on it. 

Pete

[SuiteSuccess]

2 hours ago, Tireman9 said:

While it is a good idea to know the actual load on each tire, the better practice is to inflate all tires on an axle to the same inflation. This is done to achieve similar handling and stopping response from the tires.

RE inflation level In trailer application the suspension design results in Interply Shear (forces trying to tear belts off the tire body) that are significantly higher than seen in Motorhome application. Running higher inflation can lower these forces. In your case that would be the max wheel rating.

Good info, but I have MorRyde Independent Suspension so I suspect it would be different?  Your point about shear is well taken. I have Goodyear G114s and inflate to 110psi (max cold is 120) on all tires. That gives me almost 13% cushion above my individual wheel weights. (my heaviest wheel is 3675 lbs). Are you saying I should just inflate all to 120psi?  Which takes precedence uneven wear pattern or shear?

[noteven]

6 hours ago, wild wolf products said:

Makes me wonder if you owned the company that built my Dump trailer? HAHA Its rated for 15,000 lbs. But has dual 12,000 lb axles under it. And 3"x8" Tube frame, Trailer only weights 2950 lbs. And again rated for 15,000 lbs. Why in the world did they in 1979 think they needed 12,000 lb axles on it. 

Pete

Maybe it dates from The Time Before Accountants Ruled The World...and someone over in customer service said "if the 12 thousands cost $26.76 each more than the 75 hundreds put them in ... " and their warranty costs were zero $ and zero cents ... 

[JPL]

A question IRT steel wheels vrs Alum. i was told that I should order alum wheels instead of steel wheels because they run cooler. Why do most of the car haulers I see have steel wheels. The saleman I talked to had both steel and alum. Was he just trying to make a better sale? I have the tires I just need to get wheels. The tires are mounted on steel wheels with 5/8 holes and my axles (7000lb) have 1/2" studs. The alum look good but is it really worth it?    Pat 

 

 

The Old Sailor

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

Since aluminum wheels are forged, they tend to be truer than steel wheels.  Steel wheel can and will rust.

Are you sure about 1/2" studs.  7K axles usually have 9/16" studs.

5/8" studs do not have tapered seats and expect the hub to provide the centering of the wheel.  You have to be sure you match the hardware.

 

[Tireman9]

On 4/6/2017 at 4:55 PM, SuiteSuccess said:

Good info, but I have MorRyde Independent Suspension so I suspect it would be different?  Your point about shear is well taken. I have Goodyear G114s and inflate to 110psi (max cold is 120) on all tires. That gives me almost 13% cushion above my individual wheel weights. (my heaviest wheel is 3675 lbs). Are you saying I should just inflate all to 120psi?  Which takes precedence uneven wear pattern or shear?

Independent suspension is not an issue for tire inflation level. Unless you are driving a race car the best practice is for ALL tires on each axle to carry the same inflation.

Unless your trailer has "passive steer" axles as seen on some 6 axle dump trucks the Interply Shear forces are the result of the tires being dragged around every curve. This generates a high slip angle which results in higher shear forces that are trying to tear the belts and tread off the tire body. Increased inflation will lower (but never eliminate) the shear force.

 

Uneven wear can mean the tire wears out before it fails.  Shear can mean it fails before it wears out.  Your choice.

[rdickinson]

Tireman 9.5, you're back...You and I conversed a couple of years ago.  So here is what I did re my rig.  Trailer is 22.5 lbs, truck is 20k lbs.  Trailer is running 17.5's at 4800 lbs capacity max pressure cold is 110, I think.  Deduct 20% for the hitch divide by 6, and calculate the rest out, I'm running the trailer and truck at 90 psi cold.  They generally warm up 10 psi when running and high pressure or temp alarm is set at 15% above cold.

Running Crossfires on the truck duals.

Am I in the general area?

 

Roger

 

[Tireman9]

4 minutes ago, rdickinson said:

Tireman 9.5, you're back...You and I conversed a couple of years ago.  So here is what I did re my rig.  Trailer is 22.5 lbs, truck is 20k lbs.  Trailer is running 17.5's at 4800 lbs capacity max pressure cold is 110, I think.  Deduct 20% for the hitch divide by 6, and calculate the rest out, I'm running the trailer and truck at 90 psi cold.  They generally warm up 10 psi when running and high pressure or temp alarm is set at 15% above cold.

Running Crossfires on the truck duals.

Am I in the general area?

 

Roger

 

Well you have a good start but I really need more details.

Here is a post I made on another RV forum.

 

"Some general comments and requests to those posing questions about tires and specifically about how to set the inflation.

As reported in more than one thread on the topic of inflation, the answers and information can be confusing to many.
The specific numbers for one RV are seldom correct for another RV even of the same make, model and year, as the amount of "stuff" one person carries is never identical to the stuff someone else carries.

It will also help if when you post your initial question you provide the following facts. This will save everyone time and confusion.

FACTS that are needed include:
1. Full tire size including load range and tire company
2. GAWR for Front, Rear and Tag if so equipped. Also GVWR. This is on your "Certification label"
3. RV Co recommended tire inflation for each axle. Also on the Cert. Label
4. Actual "4 corner" weights for each axle when the RV is at its heaviest. If you don't have "4 corner weights" then individual scale weights for each axle. (If you have a TAG it would be "6 corner scale weights")

When we do not know the above information, we end up having to ask for the missing information which can add to the confusion with questions and quote answers sometimes generating more questions which makes it harder for those of us offering answers to keep the information of who said what and what question is being answered clear.

NOTE. If you discover that any of your scale weights exceed the max load rating of an axle or the vehicle you must do something to bring the coach in compliance at once. Doing calculations and setting pressures will simply need to be redone after you lower the RV weight.

Your assistance will be greatly appreciated."

 

The above is aimed at motorhomes. For trailers I would need actual measured load on each tire or at least on each axle. I know this will take a bit of work but based on many many measurements using individual scales almost no RVs have their tire loads split evenly side to side or evenly between axles.  If you only have scale weight on the total for 6 tires I would suggest you may have as much as 20% of the total on one tire rather than the average of 16.6%.

Also for trailers the axle & suspension design results in trailer tires getting significantly more than normal "Interply Shear" I have covered this in my blog but basically the tires are dragged around every turn and this results in high force tryint to tear the belts off the body of the tire. The best thing you can do to lower this shear force is to run the max pressure molded on the tire sidewall or the max pressure rating for the wheel.

 

We want to know the tire load on trailers not to help set cold pressure as we do with motorhomes but to ensure we are running at least a 15% margin of load capacity based on inflation vs the measured tire load.  This is to offset the side to side load shift due to cornering, wind and road crown.