chevy3500 Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 So after sitting for the winter, on Tuesday I put the batteries in our 2000 Kenworth T2000, she fired right up, air built up, but when I attempted to move the brakes on the left rear were locked up (front axle on tandem). It did this last fall after sitting for a while also. At that time it came loose with just a little back and forth rocking. She doesn't want to release this time though. It does not appear that the plunger is moving in and out of the brake can (not sure that's the correct terminology) My questions are; if the brake lining is rusted to the brake drum, would the plunger still move when you release the air? or is it more likely that its the brake can/plunger that's the problem? Any suggestions on trouble shooting? With a fresh 8" blanket of snow this morning it will be next week before its dry enough to do much, but just looking for suggestions. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billr Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 BFH. Give the drum s good whack. Yes rusted to drum. Should free up. Bill and Joan and 3 Collie pups 2001 Volvo VNL 770 "The Doghouse" Singled short, "ET" hItch VED12 465HP Gen 1 Autoshift 3.58 ratio 2005 Mobile Suite 38RL3 2011 Smart Passion loaded piggybacK Weigh-It Portable RV Scales http://www.weighitrv.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldride Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 I would make sure air was drained for water. But if arm is moving I would make sure brake drum is still in contact. If so Big hammer and a couple of well placed hits should free it up. 2011 CAN-AM Spyder Rt SE5, 2010 Alpine 5th wheel, 1998 Vovlo VNL610 Hopefully 2 years 6 month till full time retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 The front axle should not have spring cans on it. The brakes should not apply when parking. This is how mine is configured but I have been known to be wrong on occasion. Ron C. 2013 Dynamax Trilogy 3850 D3 2000 Kenworth T2000 Optimus Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 I think he is talking about the front tandem. Both rear axles on mine had spring brake cans. Nigel 2006 Volvo VNL 430, 2006 smart cabrio cdi, 2000 Triple E Topaz 30' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porky69 Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 It can be difficult to get in so you can hit the brake drum, hitting anything else does very little, can be difficult on some trucks. You may be able to sneak a large prybar in between the drum and dust cover (assuming they are still on your truck) and pry on the metal part of the brake shoe, or you can use the prybar as an extension to hammer on. Like was said before chock the wheels before releasing the brakes and crawling underneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Kildow Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 How cold is it there? If its been below freezing and you parked it with moisture on the brakes. That will freeze it up, or if water gets in on the brake shoes. Then it freezes back up it will do it. But sounds like you need to check your S cam bushing. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 I was also talking about the front tandem. Mine doesn't have spring cans Ron C. 2013 Dynamax Trilogy 3850 D3 2000 Kenworth T2000 Optimus Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob A Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 The pushrod will still move in and out if the shoes are stuck to the drum, we use a dead blow sledge on the rims with the brakes released, this will marr the rims a bit, the other way is remove the dust covers and hit the shoes , make sure wheels are chocked 2014 jayco siesmic 3914 1998 volvo 610, singled short ( bought in 2005) 14 speed volvo tranny 2014 Toyota yaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyates007 Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 My T2000 did the same thing a couple of weeks ago. I knocked them with the hammer, removed the block, jumped in, put in gear and truck moved success. It was very dark that morning. I turned out of the driveway onto the road and proceeded to build speed. As I shifted from 8 to 9 I noticed a squealing. Turns out my front tandem did not release and I was dragging a tire, my brand new tire. Now it has a flat spot. Was not in a spot I could pull off. Fortunately when I locked in the power divider it broke loose. Since I moved to the northwest it seems my brakes are locked up more often than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy3500 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 The front axle should not have spring cans on it. The brakes should not apply when parking. This is how mine is cingigured but I have been known to be wrong on occasion. I definitely has cans on it, previous owner replaced the opposite side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy3500 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 How cold is it there? If its been below freezing and you parked it with moisture on the brakes. That will freeze it up, or if water gets in on the brake shoes. Then it freezes back up it will do it. But sounds like you need to check your S cam bushing. Pete Currently its about 35 degrees, but throughout the winter its been down to about minus 30 on occasion. I don't think its a freezing issue however. It was dry when parked and had a tarp over the tires to block out UV from the sun, plus it had done this late last summer after sitting and it and it was plenty warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy3500 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 I tried whacking with hammer the other day, but wasn't sure that was the proper thing to do so didn't hit it too hard. Pretty tough to get at without taking the fairings off. Was thinking possible an air chisel with a flat punch on it and try to work it around the drum. Also hard to tell if the push rod is moving when your doing thing by yourself, so I will have to get my wife out there to push the air release in. In the future maybe it would be better to just chock the wheels and leave the air off? On a related note what are the indications (if any) that the cans need to be replaced? As noted above previous owner had replaced the opposite side. And Thanks for all the replies so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 When the air eventually leaks out the spring brakes will come on anyway. Nigel 2006 Volvo VNL 430, 2006 smart cabrio cdi, 2000 Triple E Topaz 30' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Dreamer Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Use a good solid pipe thru a wheel hole up against the drum and that is long enough to hit the pipe from outside the wheel. Much easier than trying to get to the back side and safer as you are not where the truck can run you over in case your blocks do not hold. You can give it a good hit with a 3lb sledge. 2005 Freightliner Century S/T, Singled, Air ride ET Jr. hitch 2019 46'+ Dune Sport Man Cave custom 5th wheel toy hauler Owner of the 1978 Custom Van "Star Dreamer" which might be seen at a local car show near you! Check out http://www.hhrvresource.com/ for much more info on HDT's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy3500 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Use a good solid pipe thru a wheel hole up against the drum and that is long enough to hit the pipe from outside the wheel. Much easier than trying to get to the back side and safer as you are not where the truck can run you over in case your blocks do not hold. You can give it a good hit with a 3lb sledge. Well now that's thinking!! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy3500 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 When the air eventually leaks out the spring brakes will come on anyway. Nigel Good Point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollytrolley Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Once in a while the spring brake axle will "hang a brake" so I let the air build up to 120 lbs then apply brake off and on up into the +100 range until I have used the air down to 100 pounds ........seldom do we apply more than 30 lbs of air to the brakes in normal braking but the rapid +100 lb applications tend to exert huge forces that often break the rust or ice bond.......it's worth a try..... Drive on.........(Maybe......) 97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickW Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 I basically do the same as Dollytrolly. I wait until the air tanks are full signaled by the spitting of the dryer. Then before I release the park brake I firmly depress the foot brake. Harder than I ever press it when driving. Once pressed I hold it for 2 to 4 seconds then release. Repeat 2 or 3 times. I use to not do this until one day the brakes would not release. At our previous home the truck was parked in the driveway. There was a incline to the driveway. Where the truck was parked, if I turned the wheel all the way to the right, placed the truck in gear (2nd) and released the park brake the truck would roll in the alley, slip in to gear with out having to clutch it and off I would go. The first time the truck would not start rolling after sitting for a spell, I knew exactly why but then I was struck with fear knowing the truck was parked on a incline and lying under the truck pounding the brake drums with a hammer to release them kinda sounded like a "darwin" moment waiting to happen. I should also mention that this neighborhood had buried electric lines. The transformer was directly in front of the truck on the opposite side of the ally on a concrete pad. So if things went bad, at least it was going to be "spark"tacular. I was not liking my options. After thinking about it for a few minutes I figured it should not take too much pressure/movement to get the rust to break free. Sure enough, the 2nd time I depressed the brake pedal (harder then the first attempt) the truck started rolling as I released the pedal. So now anytime the truck has been sitting this is what I do before I attempt to move the truck. I also figure it gets all the moving parts of the brake system moving incase they are stuck/sticky from not moving in quite some time. Shortly after I bought the truck I had a slack adjuster freeze up on me. The mechanic told me that it was not the first time he had seen one freeze up that was working fine before the truck was parked for a extended period of time. My trucks slack adjusters did not have grease fittings and his theory was if used daily the grease less ones worked fine but without fresh grease and lack of movement they would freeze up over time. 2017 Entegra Anthem 44A SOLD - 2004 Volvo 780. 465hp and 10sp Auto Shift (from 2010~2017) SOLD - 2009 Montana 3400RL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollytrolley Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 I basically do the same as Dollytrolly. I wait until the air tanks are full signaled by the spitting of the dryer. Then before I release the park brake I firmly depress the foot brake. Harder than I ever press it when driving. Once pressed I hold it for 2 to 4 seconds then release. Repeat 2 or 3 times. I use to not do this until one day the brakes would not release. At our previous home the truck was parked in the driveway. There was a incline to the driveway. Where the truck was parked, if I turned the wheel all the way to the right, placed the truck in gear (2nd) and released the park brake the truck would roll in the alley, slip in to gear with out having to clutch it and off I would go. The first time the truck would not start rolling after sitting for a spell, I knew exactly why but then I was struck with fear knowing the truck was parked on a incline and lying under the truck pounding the brake drums with a hammer to release them kinda sounded like a "darwin" moment waiting to happen. I should also mention that this neighborhood had buried electric lines. The transformer was directly in front of the truck on the opposite side of the ally on a concrete pad. So if things went bad, at least it was going to be "spark"tacular. I was not liking my options. After thinking about it for a few minutes I figured it should not take too much pressure/movement to get the rust to break free. Sure enough, the 2nd time I depressed the brake pedal (harder then the first attempt) the truck started rolling as I released the pedal. So now anytime the truck has been sitting this is what I do before I attempt to move the truck. I also figure it gets all the moving parts of the brake system moving incase they are stuck/sticky from not moving in quite some time. Shortly after I bought the truck I had a slack adjuster freeze up on me. The mechanic told me that it was not the first time he had seen one freeze up that was working fine before the truck was parked for a extended period of time. My trucks slack adjusters did not have grease fittings and his theory was if used daily the grease less ones worked fine but without fresh grease and lack of movement they would freeze up over time. Rick, Good points..... Regarding the parking brake set.........this is not on any air brake test that I have ever seen and many mechanics do not even know...... that the air circuit exists...... but there is a sneaky little-noticed air line from the air brake servo valve over to the tee line at the spring brake modulating valve (the little green or black or blue lines between the two valves on most systems ) this little known line is the service brake to spring brake balance line in that this line relieves the spring brake pressure as you apply more and more service pressure.......this is a over-stress relief system that keeps the brake slack adjusters, S-cams and brake shoes becoming over-stressed if the combined pressure of the spring brake and service were both exerted at the same time......Whew So IF you have the park brake set (spring brake) and then you apply the service brake.....as the service pressure increases and the spring brake pressure decreases to the point that the service brake pressure equals the nominal release pressure of the spring brake system...whew...whew..... Drive on.........(Sneaky air lines........) 97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy3500 Posted March 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Got'em loose after a bunch of beating on the drum!! Pretty loud POP when they finally broke free Any thing to do to prevent this in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Got'em loose after a bunch of beating on the drum!! Pretty loud POP when they finally broke free Any thing to do to prevent this in the future? Plastic sheet cutting boards between at least one of the shoes and the drum. I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncohauler Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Use a good solid pipe thru a wheel hole up against the drum and that is long enough to hit the pipe from outside the wheel. Much easier than trying to get to the back side and safer as you are not where the truck can run you over in case your blocks do not hold. You can give it a good hit with a 3lb sledge.Best way if the ground is wet or trucks to low. I use to have this problem with my work trucks all the time, if I took a week off. And they're parked in sunny San Diego CA. Now we have all wheel disks, problem gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollytrolley Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Got'em loose after a bunch of beating on the drum!! Pretty loud POP when they finally broke free Any thing to do to prevent this in the future? Chevy, Funny you mention the word..."prevent"......the company had a older KW service truck that sat idle too much time in Fairbanks and it can get COLD in Fairbanks.........so the crusty old mechanic we used would chock the wheels and crawl under the beast and install the cage bolts in the spring cans and retract the shoes off the drums and bingo problem solved.......not something that you do with your tux on........and not much fun uncaging the brakes at -15f.....before you could use the truck again......burrrrrr But it's better than trying to break loose a brake at -15f........ Drive on.......(Cold messy ......choices) 97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hone eagle Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 prevention-maybe I never 'set' the brakes on the last day before winter storage. The truck is up on planks and wheels chocked,in a day or so the brakes settle on the drums with the temp equalized - no sticking yet. you may need a helper to chock the truck if you are on any kind of a incline. 2005 volvo 670 freedomline singledNewmar Torrey Pine 34rskswoot woot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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