Jump to content

Propane Tank Recertification


WanderingStar

Recommended Posts

44 minutes ago, Ray,IN said:

OPD valve limits filling over 80%, 16# =3.4G is maximum capacity.

The OPD limits the fill to 80% of the water capacity. A typical 20 lb "BBQ" cylinder holds about 5.7 gallons of water (47.6 lbs). 80% of that is about 4.5 gallons or about 20 lbs of propane...

Edited by Dutch_12078

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 55
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

8 hours ago, palmeris said:

Propane Tank Recertification

In regards to the original title of this thread.....Has anyone had to recertify a composite propane tank and was it difficult to find a business to do so?

Interesting! First I guess I did not know there was such a thing. They look interesting. They need to be recertified every five years and for one company at least they have a look up map.

SignatureNewest.jpg.a1bc8322b0862056fd28e25d5b1458db.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Chalkie said:

Interesting! First I guess I did not know there was such a thing. They look interesting. They need to be recertified every five years and for one company at least they have a look up map.

Most portable tanks on RV's are DOT tanks and therefore are required to be recertified 12 years after the date of manufacture. This is why it is seldom an issue for RV'ers, as most don't keep a trailer for that long. 

Mark & Teri

2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350

Mark & Teri's Travels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/28/2022 at 6:51 AM, Kirk W said:

Your propane tank recertification will cost anywhere from $35 to $60. It varies according to the service provider and the weight of the tank.

Your price quote for recertification is one of the reasons I was prompted to make the initial post. I had also posted on the Airstream Addicts FB group inquiring about recertification. Many gave the same price range which is why I posted the place in OKC that charges $15 per tank. I just wanted to inform others in the area or those that may be traveling through the area that it can be done at a much lower price.

 

Houseless But Not Homeless                      

Sioux Falls , SD

2006 34' Airstream Classic LTD

2010 F250 PSD

Hensley Hitch

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mptjelgin said:

Most portable tanks on RV's are DOT tanks and therefore are required to be recertified 12 years after the date of manufacture. This is why it is seldom an issue for RV'ers, as most don't keep a trailer for that long. 

That was reduced to 10 years a few years back...

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, WanderingStar said:

Your price quote for recertification is one of the reasons I was prompted to make the initial post. I had also posted on the Airstream Addicts FB group inquiring about recertification. Many gave the same price range which is why I posted the place in OKC that charges $15 per tank. I just wanted to inform others in the area or those that may be traveling through the area that it can be done at a much lower price.

The LP distributor I use for recerts in upstate NY charges $15 for a 5 year visual recert, and $35 for a 10 year pressure test recert.

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those interested, here is a fairly concise review of propane tank and refilling regulations:  Dispensing Propane Safely Training Manual.pdf (solanosdoitbest.com)

Recertification is required after 12 years and every 5 years thereafter.  Typically for standard 20 or 30# tanks the cost of replacement will be less than recertification.

Also note that a 20# tank is designed with a headspace so it can be filled to 20#.  That includes the 20% headspace.  DOT labeling is typical government nonsense.  Tanks are labelled with a tare weight, usually a bit less than 20#.  Fill capacity is marked as capacity based on filling with water.  A 20# tank will be marked with WC of 47.6 pounds.  The conversion is 0.42 pounds of propane per pound of water for a total capacity of 20# of propane.  There is absolutely no regulatory reason to fill 75 or 80% less than that leaving a tank only about 60% full.  Tanks are best filled by adding 20# to the tare weight.  The OPD valve is an additional safety feature.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, JimK said:

For those interested, here is a fairly concise review of propane tank and refilling regulations:  Dispensing Propane Safely Training Manual.pdf (solanosdoitbest.com)

Recertification is required after 12 years and every 5 years thereafter.  Typically for standard 20 or 30# tanks the cost of replacement will be less than recertification.

Also note that a 20# tank is designed with a headspace so it can be filled to 20#.  That includes the 20% headspace.  DOT labeling is typical government nonsense.  Tanks are labelled with a tare weight, usually a bit less than 20#.  Fill capacity is marked as capacity based on filling with water.  A 20# tank will be marked with WC of 47.6 pounds.  The conversion is 0.42 pounds of propane per pound of water for a total capacity of 20# of propane.  There is absolutely no regulatory reason to fill 75 or 80% less than that leaving a tank only about 60% full.  Tanks are best filled by adding 20# to the tare weight.  The OPD valve is an additional safety feature.  

The 12 year rule was changed to 10 years a few years ago:

"Propane cylinders must be requalified or replaced every 5 or 10 years depending on the cylinder type, condition, and previous requalification method. (Ref. 49 CFR § 180.205(d) and 180.209(e).)"

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/sites/phmsa.dot.gov/files/docs/propane_en_v3.pdf

 

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

Link to comment
Share on other sites

headerLogo.png

 

 
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
Connect on FacebookFollow Me on TwitterSubscribe via RSS FeedConnect on LinkedInFollow us on InstagramSee our Youtube channel
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
Connect on FacebookFollow Me on TwitterSubscribe via RSS FeedConnect on LinkedInFollow us on InstagramSee our Youtube channel
 

DOT approves NPGA petition on cylinder requalification

October 30, 2020 -  By Brian Richesson

 

The Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA) has approved the National Propane Gas Association’s (NPGA) petition on the requalification of Department of Transportation (DOT)-specification cylinders by hydrostatic testing, also known as the volumetric expansion testing method.

The action, announced by PHMSA in an Oct. 30 final rule, returns the requalification period to 12 years. NPGA reported the development in a member alert.

NPGA says it had previously identified an oversight by PHMSA as part of the agency’s development of a 2016 rule that changed 49 CFR 180.209(e), which reduced the initial requalification period for DOT-specification cylinders following volumetric expansion testing from 12 years to 10 years and increased the time frame for requalification following a proof pressure test from seven years to 10 years.

“In order to comply, thousands of propane marketers would have had to remove from service potentially millions of DOT cylinders to be requalified two years sooner than expected or planned for,” says NPGA President and CEO Steve Kaminski in an email to LP Gas.

PHMSA, an agency under DOT, did not provide any rationale for the changes, which resulted in a significant, negative impact on the propane industry, according to NPGA. The association took the fight to PHMSA and engaged the support of Congress, as well as prepared legal measures in order to secure a correction.

With PHMSA’s final approval of the petition, NPGA estimates regulatory savings of more than $100 million a year for the industry.

“It’s a big victory because the ramifications of the previous rule, which had no technical justification or safety benefit, would have caused widespread disruption across the industry, to the tune of $100 million every year in increased costs,” Kaminski says. “In addition, major changes to existing training materials and procedural manuals would have been required.”

The changes published in the final rule take effect Nov. 30, though voluntary compliance may begin Oct. 30, NPGA says.

After initial pushback from the NPGA, PHMSA released an enforcement notice in March 2017 that stated the agency would not take enforcement action against the requalification of DOT-specification cylinders by hydrostatic testing according to a 12-year period. Instead, the enforcement notice permitted a 12- or 10-year requalification period for volumetric expansion testing. With the latest changes, the enforcement notice will terminate Nov. 30.

Kaminski says NPGA couldn’t take any chances and rely solely on the enforcement notice as it relates to cylinder requalification regulations.

The regulatory action, NPGA also notes, does not impact the five-year cylinder requalification period for the external visual inspection method. It addresses this and other key points in a fact sheet titled DOT Cylinder Requalification Periods, which is available on its member dashboard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, mptjelgin said:

Most portable tanks on RV's are DOT tanks and therefore are required to be recertified 12 years after the date of manufacture. This is why it is seldom an issue for RV'ers, as most don't keep a trailer for that long. 

Well, no that is not true at least according to the manufacturer I linked to.

Quote

Your cylinder will need to be requalified once every five years via a visual inspection by an approved requalifier. This is in accordance with Department of Transportation regulations and ensures that your cylinder remains safe to use. All propane cylinders must periodically be inspected. Viking cylinders are the only composite cylinders that can be requalified by a simple visual inspection.

 

SignatureNewest.jpg.a1bc8322b0862056fd28e25d5b1458db.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, sandsys said:

Are they talking about a motorhome's built in tank vs a replaceable one?

Linda

DOT has no authority over the permanently installed propane tanks in our motorhomes. Those tanks are controlled by the standards set by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME). Only the portable cylinders typically used in towable RV's come under the DOT's Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA).

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Danfreda1 said:
headerLogo.png

 

 
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
Connect on FacebookFollow Me on TwitterSubscribe via RSS FeedConnect on LinkedInFollow us on InstagramSee our Youtube channel
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
Connect on FacebookFollow Me on TwitterSubscribe via RSS FeedConnect on LinkedInFollow us on InstagramSee our Youtube channel
 

DOT approves NPGA petition on cylinder requalification

October 30, 2020 -  By Brian Richesson

 

The Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA) has approved the National Propane Gas Association’s (NPGA) petition on the requalification of Department of Transportation (DOT)-specification cylinders by hydrostatic testing, also known as the volumetric expansion testing method.

The action, announced by PHMSA in an Oct. 30 final rule, returns the requalification period to 12 years. NPGA reported the development in a member alert.

NPGA says it had previously identified an oversight by PHMSA as part of the agency’s development of a 2016 rule that changed 49 CFR 180.209(e), which reduced the initial requalification period for DOT-specification cylinders following volumetric expansion testing from 12 years to 10 years and increased the time frame for requalification following a proof pressure test from seven years to 10 years.

“In order to comply, thousands of propane marketers would have had to remove from service potentially millions of DOT cylinders to be requalified two years sooner than expected or planned for,” says NPGA President and CEO Steve Kaminski in an email to LP Gas.

PHMSA, an agency under DOT, did not provide any rationale for the changes, which resulted in a significant, negative impact on the propane industry, according to NPGA. The association took the fight to PHMSA and engaged the support of Congress, as well as prepared legal measures in order to secure a correction.

With PHMSA’s final approval of the petition, NPGA estimates regulatory savings of more than $100 million a year for the industry.

“It’s a big victory because the ramifications of the previous rule, which had no technical justification or safety benefit, would have caused widespread disruption across the industry, to the tune of $100 million every year in increased costs,” Kaminski says. “In addition, major changes to existing training materials and procedural manuals would have been required.”

The changes published in the final rule take effect Nov. 30, though voluntary compliance may begin Oct. 30, NPGA says.

After initial pushback from the NPGA, PHMSA released an enforcement notice in March 2017 that stated the agency would not take enforcement action against the requalification of DOT-specification cylinders by hydrostatic testing according to a 12-year period. Instead, the enforcement notice permitted a 12- or 10-year requalification period for volumetric expansion testing. With the latest changes, the enforcement notice will terminate Nov. 30.

Kaminski says NPGA couldn’t take any chances and rely solely on the enforcement notice as it relates to cylinder requalification regulations.

The regulatory action, NPGA also notes, does not impact the five-year cylinder requalification period for the external visual inspection method. It addresses this and other key points in a fact sheet titled DOT Cylinder Requalification Periods, which is available on its member dashboard.

Thanks for the head up, Dan! Apparently the PHMSA is way behind in updating their literature that still states the 10 year rule.

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Chalkie said:

Well, no that is not true at least according to the manufacturer I linked to.

 

The manufacturer that you linked to manufactures composite cylinders, which very well may not be DOT approved. But the steel cylinders utilized by 99.99% of RVs are steel and DOT approved, and the 12 year limit applies. 

Mark & Teri

2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350

Mark & Teri's Travels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here in the Yuma, AZ. area propane is pumped by the gallon meter. Haven't seen scales for years. And gallon price must be posted just like gas stations. Also, new portable tanks are now dated for 10 years, look at the stamping on the collars. Another thing to take into consideration, Canada does not accept our recertification, if you may be going to Alaska. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bobsallyh said:

Here in the Yuma, AZ. area propane is pumped by the gallon meter. Haven't seen scales for years. And gallon price must be posted just like gas stations. Also, new portable tanks are now dated for 10 years, look at the stamping on the collars. Another thing to take into consideration, Canada does not accept our recertification, if you may be going to Alaska. 

Do they just pump until the OPD kicks out to know when the cylinder is full?

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Danfreda1 said:

There is a vent and a lot of propane suppliers will crack the vent with a screwdriver and fill until it spits propane then shut the vent and turn the pump off. That is full. Not going by the scale or the gauge. 

That "vent" is the "Fixed Liquid Level Gauge" that's used the same way as the equivalent valve on the permanent ASME tanks.

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, mptjelgin said:

The manufacturer that you linked to manufactures composite cylinders, which very well may not be DOT approved. But the steel cylinders utilized by 99.99% of RVs are steel and DOT approved, and the 12 year limit applies. 

Yes, indeed, but my comment was made in reply to a comment about composite tanks. /sigh/

SignatureNewest.jpg.a1bc8322b0862056fd28e25d5b1458db.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Danfreda1 said:

There is a vent and a lot of propane suppliers will crack the vent with a screwdriver and fill until it spits propane then shut the vent and turn the pump off. That is full. Not going by the scale or the gauge. 

That's exactly what they do when I get my tanks refilled at both a propane supplier or Tractor Supply. However, they both are filling them while sitting them on a scale as the scale is required by Texas law. 

SignatureNewest.jpg.a1bc8322b0862056fd28e25d5b1458db.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Chalkie said:

That's exactly what they do when I get my tanks refilled at both a propane supplier or Tractor Supply. However, they both are filling them while sitting them on a scale as the scale is required by Texas law. 

The Tractor Supply I used here in upstate NY a few days ago also set the cylinder on the scale, but then he just filled it until the OPD kicked off. The scale wasn't even set for the proper weight.

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dutch_12078 said:

The Tractor Supply I used here in upstate NY a few days ago also set the cylinder on the scale, but then he just filled it until the OPD kicked off. The scale wasn't even set for the proper weight.

The OPD valve should never be used to judge a full tank.  At about 11 minutes, this video shows how to fill by volume.  The same technique can be used when propane is sold by weight.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

RVers Online University

campgroundviews.com

RV Destinations

Find out more or sign up for Escapees RV'ers Bootcamp.

Advertise your product or service here.

The Rvers- Now Streaming

RVTravel.com Logo



×
×
  • Create New...