Fulltiming with an EV

[RV_]

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States hit electric vehicle owners with high fees, Consumer Reports says

Published Wed, Sep 11 20195:02 PM EDTUpdated Thu, Sep 12 20192:24 PM EDT

Key Points

• A new Consumer Reports analysis shows that of the 26 states have EV fees, 11 charge more than owners of gas-powered cars pay in gas taxes.
• The move in some states to higher EV fees has been led by the American Legislative Exchange Council a think tank advocating policies of limited government, free markets, and federalism.
• Electric vehicles accounted for 1.8% of the market share in the U.S. in March of 2019.

Electric vehicle owners in some states are paying higher annual fees for driving zero-emissions cars than their gas-guzzling friends, according to new analysis by Consumer Reports.

Of the 26 states that impose fees on electric vehicles, 11 charge more for an EV than an owner of a traditional gas-powered car ends up paying in gasoline taxes every year. Three of those 11 states charge more than twice the amount.

Trends for the fees, generally paid through annual registration renewals, don’t look promising either. Another 12 states are considering their own EV fee proposals — seven of which would double over time.

Source: EV Road Taxes

 

[RV_]

16 hours ago, rynosback said:

I knew that you would chime in. It looks like at this time that the logistics for full timing  and staying in campgrounds is going to be troublesome at this point in time. On a side note, my best friend just picked up a model Y a couple of weeks ago. 
 

Has he let you drive the Y yet?

[durangodon]

13 minutes ago, RV_ said:

More:

States hit electric vehicle owners with high fees, Consumer Reports says

Published Wed, Sep 11 20195:02 PM EDTUpdated Thu, Sep 12 20192:24 PM EDT

Key Points

• A new Consumer Reports analysis shows that of the 26 states have EV fees, 11 charge more than owners of gas-powered cars pay in gas taxes.
• The move in some states to higher EV fees has been led by the American Legislative Exchange Council a think tank advocating policies of limited government, free markets, and federalism.
• Electric vehicles accounted for 1.8% of the market share in the U.S. in March of 2019.

Electric vehicle owners in some states are paying higher annual fees for driving zero-emissions cars than their gas-guzzling friends, according to new analysis by Consumer Reports.

Of the 26 states that impose fees on electric vehicles, 11 charge more for an EV than an owner of a traditional gas-powered car ends up paying in gasoline taxes every year. Three of those 11 states charge more than twice the amount.

Trends for the fees, generally paid through annual registration renewals, don’t look promising either. Another 12 states are considering their own EV fee proposals — seven of which would double over time.

Source: EV Road Taxes

 

I posted a link to this report in my last post.  I was surprised to see how much some States were charging in EV fees.

[Ray,IN]

2 hours ago, Lou Schneider said:

Right.  Electric cars are not charged 18.4 cents a gallon Federal and 41 to 75 cents a gallon State taxes for their fuel.  They get a free ride on the roads these taxes build and maintain.

Other maintenance costs are deferred until their battery packs need replacing.

Indiana adds a surcharge onto EV license plates to make up for the loss of road tax, something like $165/yr. Ten states have similar fee structures.https://www.theindychannel.com/news/politics/ind-rep-proposes-annual-electric-vehicle-fee

For RV/Derek, I watch a segment on the sience channel about Tesla's mega-factory, and how batteries are made. Fascinating.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Ray,IN

[RV_]

52 minutes ago, durangodon said:

EV's have tires, 12 volt battery, brakes, axles, bearings, light bulbs, air filters, and other wear items.  They don't have a gasoline engine, but they are not totally maintenance free.

On edit, I found this website article.  https://advocacy.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Consumer-Reports-EV-Fee-analysis.pdf

Don,

Tesla Model Y To Ditch 12-Volt Battery, 95% Less Wiring Than Model 3

https://insideevs.com/news/332478/tesla-model-y-to-ditch-12-volt-battery-95-less-wiring-than-model-3/

As well, my brakes will likely not need replacement as I keep the regenerative braking at the default, very strong. It can stop my car and puts it in hold so it won't creep or move on a hill. I hardly use them in normal driving. 

There are no air filters that I know of other than the cabin air filter.

The motors are expected to last at least eight years or 120,000 miles.

The batteries should last at least the eight years they are warranted.

I knew they are revealing cheaper longer lasting batteries this September 22nd. I almost held off but decided in case it was not a big deal I have no worries. But like computers if you wait for advances you will never buy. SO if my batteries need replacement in eight years, and if I am still alive, I will buy the new battery pack. I heard the cost of new packs were about $10k give or take and that is a lot cheaper than buying a new car. As well once the Cyber truck is on the road, likely built in truck country - Texas, they will be producing a compact cheaper Tesla that will cost about what gas cars cost. Wait and see.

Excerpt:

"Sept. 22 will be Tesla Inc (NASDAQ: TSLA) battey and investor day. The company is expected to reveal the new million-mile battery that has been toted by CEO Elon Musk. Many also expect to hear updates on the plaid powertrain Model S and X, along with updates on the Roadster, which has been delayed until next year.

A new report from Electrek details that Tesla is expanding its battery production team, hiring for the Production Associate role. Tesla is currently working on a new battery production facility in Fremont, along with another located in Germany. A job listing shared by a recruiter detailed the position will work alongside engineers on the new pilot line.

Benzinga's Take: Batteries have always been one of Tesla's biggest strengths, and it seems they have new breakthroughs that are almost ready for prime time. Battery day seems like it will have some big reveals, and Tesla is hiring people to work on this still unrevealed technology."

Source with more: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-hiring-battery-production-associates-161526264.html

The motor is supposed to go about as long as the new batteries million miles lifetime? We'll see in September's battery day.

Battery life sources: https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Tesla+Battery+Day&qpvt=Tesla+battery+day&FORM=EWRE

Model Y spec sheet:

https://www.evspecifications.com/en/model/9d0cc4

[RV_]

33 minutes ago, Ray,IN said:

Indiana adds a surcharge onto EV license plates to make up for the loss of road tax, something like $165/yr. Ten states have similar fee structures.https://www.theindychannel.com/news/politics/ind-rep-proposes-annual-electric-vehicle-fee

For RV/Derek, I watch a segment on the sience channel about Tesla's mega-factory, and how batteries are made. Fascinating.

Ray, If you look at my receipt for registering it in CO, I paid a lot more than $165.00.

I agree about the battery videos. It will be totally improved soon. Watch this space on battery day.

[fpmtngal]

It doesn’t surprise me at all that some states charge EV owners higher fees - as people shift to EV autos, their tax revenue goes down.  Some states have huge sales tax on gas and diesel and they depend on that income.  Having once lived in California, I noticed that the fees to register cars went up as the fuel efficiency of autos in general went up as well as the cost of gas.  Fewer gallons of gas sold means less income for the state, so they look for ways to compensate - why not pick on the EV cars?  I dislike such things.

Has anyone tried to maintain/charge an EV from some sort of portable solar array?  I wonder how much solar one would need for it - probably too much for an RV to carry?  I think that would be cool, too, as I like boondocking.  It might be enough for me to consider getting a MH and one (I have a truck and trailer now).

[RV_]

32 minutes ago, fpmtngal said:

 - as people shift to EV autos, their tax revenue goes down. 

RV Answers: You missed the links above from me and DurangoDan. The facts are that EVs pay more than gas owners pay in gas and diesel road taxes. As of today, if everyone switched to EVs now, most states will make more revenues.

Has anyone tried to maintain/charge an EV from some sort of portable solar array?  I wonder how much solar one would need for it - probably too much for an RV to carry?  I think that would be cool, too, as I like boondocking.  It might be enough for me to consider getting a MH and one (I have a truck and trailer now).

RV Answers: What may be possible with the new batteries is for RVs to have onboard Tesla PowerWalls charged from their smaller RV solar systems OR  . . . Charge them from supercharger stations and that is just brainstorming.

For those of us with our own homes a Tesla solar and Powerwall system to run the house for a week is about half what it was just a couple of years ago.  About $15K for two powerwalls and the solar panels.

I have to make a comment. I wanted a powerful silent BEV and got one. There is no concern about ROI anymore than a person buying a Porsche 911 for 2.5 times the cost of my Tesla Model Y. Now if you were going to buy a luxury class car anyway OK there will be ROI.

I say that because I put a 25kW Nat Gas whole house generator on our last house. We only needed for an hour to a day and night at a time over the years we owned it. When our power came on 20 seconds after it went put we did not even move to get flashlights or panic. We would smile and say it was all worth it. It cost installed new with a water cooled engine like we had and the top shelf auto switch about $12k installed. It was not cheaper nor expensive. NO ROI, but lifestyle in that Louisiana semi rural place we lived with all city conveniences but frequent outages - Priceless.

My next one will wait for the new batteries. Here we have had three outages in the last year and none more than a couple of hours. So no hurry.

Edited July 30, 2020 by RV_

[RV_]

19 hours ago, sandsys said:

Here's how i was taught to avoid having a blind spot in a car. Scoot far left until you can press your cheek to the side window then set your mirror out until you can barely see your own car. Then scoot into the middle of your car where your right cheek would be over a floor shift if you had one and do the same for the right window. Any car approaching from behind will move into your side mirror just as it disappears from your rear view mirror then will appear in your own side vision just as it disappears from your side mirror. Try it; it works. Click and Clack taught me that on their radio program.

Linda

Sounds about right, thanks!

[durangodon]

RV and rynosback,

I'm a big fan and advocate of EV's.  I'm very much aware of the lessened maintenance, including the regenerative braking and so forth.  I was specifically responding to Lou's comment "Other maintenance costs are deferred until their battery packs need replacing".  Maybe I misunderstood what he meant, but just wanted to point out that there is indeed maintenance on any vehicle that rolls down the road, including EV's.

Just like on a gasoline vehicle, how you drive it and how you take care of it will make a big difference in how much maintenance and repair you have to do.  The big battery pack is not the only component subject to failure.

I also firmly believe that battery and charging technology is in it's infancy.  The day is coming soon where charging stations will be commonplace and you'll be able to charge a vehicle in 10 minutes, instead of the 30 to 60 minutes it now requires.  Tesla is leading the research, but others are involved also.

It's an exciting time to be alive, at least in the automotive arena.

 

[RV_]

Don, dang Dan it isn't. I must not have had my reading glasses on and just kept saying Dan Don. 

Anyway, I agree completely, along with Internet anywhere, lunar tourism, and the manned Mars mission. Most will be/is already done by Musk, even more so now that Boeing is likely to go bankrupt due to defective aircraft and buying rocket engines from the Russians. I wish

I had been born 60 years later making me 8 y/o today. More chance to go to Mars, and I expect some science magic from AI and Quantum computing.

Heck, advances in fields yet to be invented or discovered.

But good enough as it is, since nothing can yet be done about aging.

This next five years will revolutionize more than we can guess or list.

Edited July 31, 2020 by RV_

[rynosback]

7 hours ago, RV_ said:

Has he let you drive the Y yet?

He lives in Bethesda, MD and I’m in SD now. I live on the road full time. But when I go back I will. He is also on the waiting list for the Cybertruck. 

[Lou Schneider]

7 hours ago, RV_ said:

Ray, If you look at my receipt for registering it in CO, I paid a lot more than $165.00.

The only thing I saw exclusive to an electric car on your receipt was a $50 Electric Car fee and a 25 cent Electric Car decal fee. Everything else appears to be assessed equally on both gas and electric vehicles.

$50 is equal to the state and federal tax on 123 gallons of gas (CO 22 cents per gallon and Fed 18.4 cents per gallon).  3690 miles of driving a year at 30 MPG, or 10 miles a day.

Still not a fair amount of road use tax.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Lou Schneider

[rynosback]

7 hours ago, RV_ said:

On edit: I erased my middle and last name on my receipt, and my Vehicle ID # only in the tax receipts and registration below..

Lou,

I disagree. Here are my receipts from registering my Tesla Model Y in Colorado. With all the road taxes. Some states are causing EV owners to pay double what gas and diesel owners pay annually in road taxes, trying to stop the inevitable move away from fossil fuels.

 

As well:

"The oil industry subsidies have a long history in the United States. As early as World War I, the government stimulated oil and gas production in order to ensure a domestic supply.

In 1995, Congress established the Deep Water Royalty Relief Act.10 It allowed oil companies to drill on federal property without paying royalties. This encouraged the expensive form of extraction since oil was only $18 a barrel. The Treasury Department reported that the federal government has missed $50 billion in foregone revenue over the program's lifetime. It argued that this may no longer be needed now that deepwater extraction has become profitable.

Here is a summary of the 2011 oil industry subsidies compiled by Taxpayers for Common Sense in its report, "Subsidy Gusher."11

• Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit - $31 billion.
• Intangible Drilling Costs - $8.9 billion.
• Oil and Gas Royalty Relief - $6.9 billion.
• Percentage Depletion Allowance - $4.327 billion.
• Refinery Equipment Deductions - $2.3 billion.
• Geological and Geophysical Costs Tax Credit - $698 million.
• Natural Gas Distribution Lines - $500 million.
• Ultradeepwater and Unconventional Natural Gas and other Petroleum Resources R&D - $230 million.
• Passive Loss Exemption - $105 million.
• Unconventional Fossil Technology Program - $100 million.
• Other subsidies - $161 million.

Greenpeace argues that the oil industry subsidies should also include the following activities:

• The Strategic Petroleum Reserve.
• Defense spending that involves military action in oil-rich countries in the Persian Gulf.
• The construction of the U.S. federal highway system which encourages reliance on gas-driven cars.

The BEA argues that these federal government activities were primarily done to protect national security and not promote specific activities within the oil industry. Even though the intent was not to directly subsidize it, they may have benefited the industry indirectly.

The Bottom Line

Any financial benefit, whether cash or tax cuts, given by the government to businesses or government organizations is considered a subsidy. Subsidies are given to help companies reduce their costs of doing business. In doing so, the government helps boost certain sectoral activities for the economy.

The U.S. government grants subsidies to the following industries:

• Oil.
• Agriculture.
• Housing.
• U.S. farm exports.
• Automobile market.
• Healthcare through Obamacare subsidies.

The ethanol industry used to be subsidized until 2012 through corn subsidies.

Some economists though are opposed to government subsidies. They believe these end up doing more harm than good in the long run."

Source with additional info on ethanol subsidies:

https://www.thebalance.com/government-subsidies-definition-farm-oil-export-etc-3305788#:~:text= Government Subsidies (Farm%2C Oil%2C Export%2C Etc) ,at the wholesale company's gas pumps. More

You pay this every year?

[Kirk W]

On 7/30/2020 at 11:32 PM, Lou Schneider said:

Still not a fair amount of road use tax.

Which is one of the main reasons that we are seeing such a proliferation of toll roads. Add to the electric & hybrid car factor the huge increase in average MPG for passenger cars and you can easily see that the revenue from fuel taxes is falling sharply if considered on a per vehicle mile basis. 

The Impact of Energy Efficient Vehicles on Gas Tax (Highway Trust Fund) and Alternative Funding for Infrastructure Construction, Upgrade, and Maintenance

Edited August 1, 2020 by Kirk W

[RV_]

21 hours ago, Lou Schneider said:

The only thing I saw exclusive to an electric car on your receipt was a $50 Electric Car fee and a 25 cent Electric Car decal fee. Everything else appears to be assessed equally on both gas and electric vehicles.

$50 is equal to the state and federal tax on 123 gallons of gas (CO 22 cents per gallon and Fed 18.4 cents per gallon).  3690 miles of driving a year at 30 MPG, or 10 miles a day.

Still not a fair amount of road use tax.

Lou

So far not a link or source from you, so here are the exact facts. Bold and italics added by me. Lou the problem in state road taxes is that for years the little economy extremely high 30-50 mpg and especially the hybrids have not been paying their share according to your logic.

Discussing EVs here with just facts is difficult when folks allow their prejudices from whatever source to blind them to researching anything beyond what they want to see. I am not making any personal attack, just pointing out that you keep harping on a tiny portion of road revenues.

What I wonder is why, if indeed you are all about everyone paying their fair share of road taxes, you and others who believe the same have not been all over here and elsewhere since 2000 when the first Prius rolled into the US not paying their fair share because they use more road with less fuel to pay taxes on. I don't believe I have seen anyone here go after hybrids with 100 mpg equivalent and up!

Lou you are simply wrong.

Below is the current research that will show that the economy cars and hybrids as well as inflation et al have already dented revenues years ago. Every state is different and if you look at what percent of registration fees go to road funds in Colorado is much more than other states.

I am glad to clear this up for you and any others who have erred not because of what they know, but what they think they know but just ain't so.

You see, we are getting screwed in many states. If one hates EVs and cheers that great. Some folks hate diesels like I used to drive. But EV owners are simply and easily seen to not be the problem. Economical cars and Hybrids created this.

You see, anti EV folks can't talk one day about how EVs are such a tiny niche market that will not amount ever to significant car sales, and then say EVs are creating a problem when the many the economical gas and hybrid vehicles did. See we are such a small market segment AND pay our fair share in road taxes, and in many places much more than our share. You can't demean a group paying their share and then ignore the gouging states and the long standing folks not paying as much fo gas per mile..

Enjoy.

From Consumer Reports - EV Fee Paper

Rising Trend of Punitive Fees on Electric Vehicles Won’t Dent State Highway Funding Shortfalls but Will Hurt Consumers

Chris Harto and Shannon Baker-BranstetterSeptember 2019

Excerpts:

Some state legislatures have sought special annual fees from owners of electric vehicles (EVs) to make up for declining gas tax revenues, caused primarily by the effects of inflation and further accelerated by improving national fleetwide automotive fuel economy. This paper compares existing and proposed EV fees with the gas taxes paid by the average new gasoline vehicle to determine whether they are placing an additional tax burden on EV owners compared to non-EV owners, then estimates the effectiveness of EV fees at increasing highway funding revenues.

Owners of an electric vehicle in some states could be forced to pay double, triple, or even quadruple the amount that owners of new gas-powered vehicles pay in gas taxes.

○Seven of eight electric vehicle fees instituted or increased so far in2019 will be extremely punitive by 2025, meaning they not only far exceed gas tax-equivalent levels in those states, but also may unfairly discourage electric vehicle adoption.

○At least twelve states have proposed new or increased electric vehicle fees this year that have not yet passed; ten of the twelve proposed fees will require EV drivers to pay more than new gasoline powered vehicles by 2025.

○Of states that already have electric vehicle fees, the percentage that require EV drivers to pay more than newgas-powered vehicles will increase from 42 percent to 69 percent between 2020 and 2025.

●Proposed electric vehicle fees will not make a dent in declining revenues, generating only an average of 0.04 percent of current state highway funding, and only increasing to 0.3 percent by 2025

Putting some of the highest fees into further context, the existing fees in Arkansas and Wyoming force EV owners to pay the equivalent of the gas tax paid by a vehicle that gets 13 miles per gallon. The highest proposed fees are in Missouri and Arizona, which would force EV buyers to pay the equivalent of the gas tax paid by vehicles that get 9 and 10 miles per gallon, respectively.

IntroductionElectric vehicle (EV) sales have been increasing in recent years1as buyers recognize the numerous consumer, public health, and environmental benefits they can provide.2EVs generally score well on Consumer Reports’ road tests, with their quick acceleration making them fun to drive, and typically receive high marks in owner satisfaction surveys.3They can also save consumers money with lower fuel and maintenance costs.4Automakers increasingly recognize the benefits of EVs as well and have committed to investing at least $300 billion worldwide over the next five to ten years to develop and manufacture EVs.5However, as their popularity has increased, EVs have come into the crosshairs of state legislators seeking to make up for sagging gas tax revenues. Over time, decades of inflation and the greatly improved gas mileage being achieved by conventional gasoline-powered vehicles have reduced the amount of money that states can raise through gas taxes.6Rather thanincreasing gas taxes or raising funds for infrastructure through other effective means, some lawmakers are instituting flat annual fees on EVs. It is only fair that electric vehicle drivers should contribute to road construction and maintenance. And they already do: The gas tax is only a small portion of the revenues collected by a state for the purpose of building and maintaining roads, and EV drivers contribute to these purposes through other funding streams. As illustrated in Figure 1, in 2016—the latest year for which data is currently available—state gas taxes accounted for less than 29 percent of state revenues that went to highway funding (see Appendix A for a specific breakdown for each individual state). Other large sources of funding of road maintenance and construction included registration fees, tolls, and many other sources of tax revenue earmarked for highway funding, most of which are also paid by EV drivers. In addition, in most states, EV drivers are already paying a variety of taxes on the additional electricity they use. This paper defines a maximum justifiable EV fee compared with existing gas taxes, and looks at the existing and proposed EV fees across the country to determine whether they can be justified on the basis of parity or whether they are creating an added burden on EV owners. It then estimates how much revenue these fees will raise in 2019 and 2025.

Approach

Defining a Maximum Justifiable EV FeeFor states that decide to institute an EV fee, there is no single answer to the question of what an appropriate EV fee should be. Though EV fees should be determined relative to the gas tax paid by a conventional vehicle, there has yet to be a consensus upon what fuel economythat comparison should be based. The Natural Resources Defense Council makes a strong case that the fee should be based upon the EPA-rated miles per gallon equivalent (MPGe).8Others within the policy community suggest that comparing EVs with some of the most efficient gasoline vehicles (e.g., Toyota Prius) is appropriate. These approaches can be useful for states that want to align their tax and fee structure to reward superior vehicle efficiency. Rather than advocating for a single approach, the purpose of this analysis is to define a “maximum justifiable fee” (MJF) as the highest level that an EV fee could be set in a given state and still be expected to provide the same highway funding revenue as the average new gasoline vehicle. There are certainlystrong rationale for setting EV fees lower than the MJF such as encouraging EV adoption and investment or reducing pollution, but any fee higher than the MJF cannot be justified in terms of raising highway funding revenue, relative to what gasoline-powered vehicles are paying. Because most EVs that will be on the road in the near term will be new or relatively new, they should be compared with other new vehicles rather than the full existing vehicle fleet. Thus, the fleet average CAFE standards for new vehicles is an appropriate metric on which to base the comparison. Any EV fee set at a level that is higher than the gas tax paid by the average new conventional gasoline-powered vehicle would disadvantage EV owners, and thus cannot be justified on the basisof fairness.

The MJF will vary by state. It is calculated for each state using the equation below:

MJF = Average Vehicle Miles Traveled/Fuel Economy Standard x State Gas Tax

For the fuel economy standard in this equation, two values are used in this study. These are the expected average new-vehicle fuel economy based upon existing fuel economy and greenhouse gas standards for model year 2020 and model year 2025.9Including 2025 allows for analysis of how the MJF is likely to change over time as the fuel economy of conventional internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles continues to improve.

EV Fee Classification

Using the maximum justifiable fee, we classify all existing and proposed EV fees as either “punitive” or “non-punitive” depending on whether they are above or below the MJF, respectively. We further differentiate punitive fees by labeling fees that force EV drivers to pay at least 50 percent more than the average new internal combustion engine vehicle as “extremely punitive.”

Estimating EV Fee Revenues

Revenues generated from EV fees are estimated both for the current EV fleet and projecting the number of EVs in each state by 2025. The current EV fee revenues were estimated by multiplying the cumulative number of EVs that had been soldin a given state through 2018, according to the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers.10This value was then compared with the total state spending on highway and road projects in 2016 and adjusted for inflation.11To project EV fee revenues in 2025, some conservative assumptions were made. Future EV sales were estimated based upon Bloomberg New Energy Finance’s projection that EVs will account for 11 percent of the market in the U.S. by 2025.12The distribution of EV sales by state was assumed to stay the same as it was in 2018. State highway spending was assumed to stay the same as 2016 in real terms but is adjusted for inflation based upon the average consumer price index (CPI) over the past 20 years.13

Results

Figures 2 and 3 show the ratio of the existing (Figure 2) and proposed (Figure 3) EV fees to the maximum justifiable fee for each state in both 2020 and 2025 (see Appendix B for state-by-state details). They are color coded to show which fees are non-punitive, punitive, and extremely punitive. From these two figures, we can see a few trends that are moving toward overcharging EV drivers relative to ICE vehicles. The first is that over time, as fuel economy improves, EV-only fees will become much more punitive. The number of existing fees that are punitive increases from 42 percent to 69 percent between 2020 and 2025, respectively. Furthermore, the number of existing fees that are extremely punitive increases from 15 percent in 2020 to 46 percent in 2025. This means that EV drivers in 12 states will have to pay at least 50 percent more than the average new ICE vehicle in 2025.

The other clear trend is that most of the proposed fees are even more punitive than the existing fees. A full two-thirds of the proposed fees are punitive, and seven of the eight punitive proposals are extremely punitive. By 2025, 83 percent of the proposed feeswill be punitive. This is also reinforced by the existing fees that have been passed or increased so far in 2019. As yet, eight states14have passed or increased EV fees this year, and of those new fees, seven of them will be extremely punitive by 2025. This trend signals a dramatic increase in punitive fees that would also be likely to have a negative effect on consumer choice and access to the benefits of EVs

Figures 4 and 5 put the existing and proposed punitive fees on the same scale to show just how excessive some of the proposed fees really are, and how much worse they are than most of the existing fees. These graphs show how much more (in percentage terms) an EV driver will spend on fees than the average new ICE vehicle diver will pay in gas taxes. These figures show that EV drivers in some states could be forced to pay double, triple, or even quadruple what ICE drivers have to pay in gas taxes.

Putting some of the highest fees into further context, the existing fees in Arkansas and Wyoming force EV owners to pay the equivalent of the gas tax paid by a vehicle that gets 13 miles per gallon. The highest proposed fees are in Missouri and Arizona, which would force EV buyers to pay the equivalent of the gas tax paid by vehicles that get 9 and 10 miles per gallon, respectively.

EV Fee Revenues

Putting aside the appropriateness of the levels of EV fees, there remains a question as to whether or not they are effective in achieving their goal of helping to close gaps in state highway budgets. On average, EV fees currently generate 0.04 percent of current state highway revenues15in states where they have already been instituted. Proposed EV fees, of which two-thirds have been proposed at levels the analysis defines as extremely punitive, will also generate only an average of 0.04 percent of the current state highway funding. Looking out to 2025, even with rapid EV growth,16existing and proposed EV fees will generate only an estimated average of less than 0.3 percent of the expected state highway revenues.

Discussion

The results show that the trend on EV fees increasingly disadvantages EV owners, while raising very little revenue to support highway construction and maintenance. Of the eight newly passed or increased EV fees so far in 2019,17seven of them will be extremely punitive by 2025. In addition, all but two of the proposed fees will be punitive by 2025.

Even when EV fees are below the maximum justifiable fee, they are far from an ideal solution. For one, they apply uniformly to all vehicles regardless of the number of miles traveled, so an EV used for a short urban commute and driven only a few thousand miles a year pays the same as an EV used by a rideshare company and driven thousands of miles a month. The nature of flat fees is that they are inherently unfair to low-use consumers. EVs are also still a small portion of the vehicles on the roads, so these fees will not generate anywhere near enough revenue to fill the gap left by decades of under spending on our roads, with the resulting potholes and worn bridges.18At best, EV fees will generate an average of 0.3 percent of state highway funding revenue by 2025, an amount of revenue that won’t do much to make up for the continued erosion of gas tax revenue from the combination of inflation and improving fuel economy.19Furthermore, EV fees can also act as a deterrent to EV adoption. Research from the University of California, Davis used stated and revealed preference methods to estimate the effect of EV fees on sales and found that instituting an EV fee is likely to have a measurable impact on EV adoption, at least in the short run.20

States that want to encourage EV adoption in order to help meet emissions reduction goals and spur innovation can consider avoiding EV fees altogether at minimal cost over the near term. If lawmakers decide that EV fees are the right policy for their state, they could phase in the fees slowly over several years or tie them to certain targets related to EV marketshare to help minimize the potential for the fees to suppress the rate of EV adoption. They can also look to other road-funding approaches that are more uniformly applied to all vehicles.21

There is no doubt that states need to find ways to raise more revenue to pay for transportation projects and maintenance. As they look to do so, it makes sense to consider EVs and make sure that as they grow in market share, EV drivers contribute to funding the infrastructure that they use. However, in order for funding mechanisms to be tied to actual road costs, they should take into account actual road usage, consider direct impact in terms of road damage and congestion, and not punish cleaner vehicles that make up a small portion of the market. The current and proposed EV fees fall well short on most or all of these accounts.

Source: https://advocacy.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Consumer-Reports-EV-Fee-analysis.pdf

And yes folks we pay our share and more. And yes I love my Model Y. After the pandemic is over come on by for a ride.

Edited August 1, 2020 by RV_

[RV_]

I also intend to deprive the utility company from getting revenues from charging my car. I can afford it because I invested in Tesla. I'm getting a system with two Powerwalls and sufficient panels to keep the house running for five days just from that system. In between power outages they can charge my Tesla too. How? By talking away more of the house use than the on grid Tesla charging costs. We pay 7.7 cents/KW of electricity. If ROI matters to some by all means decide for yourselves. I had no ROI from my 25kw system, well maybe it helped sell the house, but added nothing to the sale price really. We made a lot because of the sweat equity. But I don't want a bunch of folks here inside and out until next year or whenever we cab be vaccinated for it. We'll be getting our annual flu shot soon too.

One of our lady members here said something along the lines of "We are living today with the consequences of decisions made 20 or more years ago." I could not agree more.

Edited August 1, 2020 by RV_

[RV_]

13 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Which is one of the main reasons that we are seeing such a proliferation of toll roads. Add to the electric & hybrid car factor the huge increase in average MPG for passenger cars and you can easily see that the revenue from fuel taxes is falling sharply if considered on a per vehicle basis. 

The Impact of Energy Efficient Vehicles on Gas Tax (Highway Trust Fund) and Alternative Funding for Infrastructure Construction, Upgrade, and Maintenance

KIrk,

I tried your link in Edge and Firefox, it is broken and won't open for me.

EVs are not the problem. At least you added the long standing problems.

Edited August 1, 2020 by RV_

[Dutch_12078]

22 minutes ago, RV_ said:

KIrk,

I tried your link in Edge and Firefox, it is broken and won't open for me.

EVs are not the problem. At least you added the long standing problems.

Try this link, Derek:

https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/25139/dot_25139_DS1.pdf?

[RV_]

Got it Dutch Thanks!

[RV_]

Oofta Kirk, that is the 2012 final edition. Only 2500-3000 Tesla model S cars had been produced here in 2012 their first year of production and first year manufacturing at the Fremont first factory. The 2008/2009 Roadsters were manufactured in the UK by the Lotus plant.

But good research because it shows our current growing number of EVs and eventual replacement of ICE age vehicles had nothing to do with current and recent shortfalls. His data was mostly 2010 stats from ten years ago.

I never saw a single resentful post or article about the economical vehicles getting away with paying nothing, at best an egregious over-generalization. As we know, all over-generalizations are wrong including this one!

Thanks!

Edited August 1, 2020 by RV_

[RV_]

On 7/30/2020 at 10:37 PM, rynosback said:

You pay this every year?

Oh nooo. That was also including my sales tax for a new car. Ask me again next year, and deduct my tax credit which here in Colorado comes back as a refund if I have less than $4000.00 to pay in income taxes, most of which is military retirement earned after 27 years,  and Social Security I paid into. My Tesla capital gains was from 2018 and paid already in 2019, and we already did our 2019 taxes. Our 2020 Tesla tax credit we get when we file in 2021.

Edited August 2, 2020 by RV_

[rynosback]

RV, have you looked into Nio? With a battery subscription looks interesting. As you will keep up with newest battery technology. I have been in it for about a year and cost averaged as it went down. 

[Lou Schneider]

I saw the Consumer Report editorial the first three times it was posted, thanks.

Rather than further add to the word count on this thread I'll just repeat the only electric vehicle specific fees on your receipt are $50.25.  Everything else is applied to ALL registered vehicle, regardless of fuel source.  In fact, if you look at this document you'll see there are a couple of emission related fees you AREN'T paying on your Tesla.

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sites/default/files/Motor Vehicle Registration Fees.pdf

Even Consumer Reports says EVs in Colorado and several other states aren't taxed enough to make up for the fuel taxes they aren't paying.

[RV_]

Lou, read a few more times until you get it. If it's a hare EVs or jealousy thing with you I can't tell. I drive my Tesla. You go ahead and try to convince others. Everyone reading got it, and just peer pressure won't blind everyone.

2 hours ago, Lou Schneider said:

In fact, if you look at this document you'll see there are a couple of emission related fees you AREN'T paying on your Tesla.

Even Consumer Reports says EVs in Colorado and several other states aren't taxed enough to make up for the fuel taxes they aren't paying.

Why would the state charge an emission free car emissions fees, unless they had a factory in Colorado, and then it still would not be the end user paying it?

No Lou, Kirk's link shows that the reduced revenue is and has been a problem of better fuel economy, hybrids, and that was 2010 data from before we had more than a few hundred EVs in country.were the tables showing the percent of the regustration fees that go to roads state by state? Notice Colorado being much higher than most?

Sorry Lou, you are way off base. And the black and white is there for all to see, as I only posted all of the report once, and earlier a one or three line excerpt with just the link. I've already learned most folks don't open links and get into the gist. For that, you need an open mind.

But the oil trillions in taxpayer subsidies was OK by you?

Missed that fuel taxes only paid for 30% or so in road revenues varying from state to state? 

Go to Appendix A - State Highway Funding Sources

Look at Alabama, one of the overcharging EV States, and Colorado. Look at column one for each, the percent gas taxes pay for State hwy funding, then column two the percent of state highway funding that comes from registration fees.

Alabama gas tax pays 60.7% registration fees 16.1%

Colorado gas tax pays 27% registration fees 47.6%

And if you don't like it. Vote differently in your state. I'm non partisan - I have an EV, and a an ICE age Subaru Forester. I swing both ways.

As far as you not liking what we pay in my state well . . .