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BInkley hitch head failing


jcsteele

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Henry is making the components, I don't think they are on the website, however.  Give him a call.

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2 hours ago, jcsteele said:

The inevitable is starting to happen. My factory Binkley hitch head is starting to fail on my Trailer Saver.... Wasn’t there an updated one I could buy somewhere??? I looked on the ET site but didnt see anything.

 

What is failing?  Jaws should never fail,  block should be good.  Pins will eventually get sloppy.  The original Binkley is “non-serviceable “ if it’s the pins, although one of the forum members who is a damn good machinist serviced one for RandyA and made it better than the original.  Maybe he will respond.  Otherwise you have to purchase a new head.

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I just purchased a new head from Trailer Saver. $500 plus shipping. Old one was twelve years old.

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I was hoping the super binkley could be purchased for it but it doesnt look like it. 

The swivel pins for the head are wearing drastically, which sounds like a common problem. 

I have been trying to attach pics but they are too big

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If you get it to me in Virginia Beach, I would be happy to attempt a fix.  Cannot say if it is repairable until I take it apart and see.  Not too hard after doing the first one for RandyA. 

I am not a Dr Pepper fan, I drink Diet Coke.  You would have to buy about $30 worth of inch and a half 1045 rod about a foot long.  I might even have enough left from Randy's hitch to do another one.

There was a lot of discussion here:

We will be leaving for Idaho on May 27th.  Be back late June.

 

Chet & Deb
'01 Volvo 660 w/ Smart
'19 Forest River Columbus 320RS 5th wheel
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Retired CWO4, USN and federal service
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Chet (NeverEasy) has developed a method for replacing the pins.  The replacement pins now have an outer shoulder and a retaining plate bolted onto the head that can be removed and replaced an infinite amount of times with individual exact fit pins.  His replacements include grease fittings that work like suspension wet bolts, which are not on the originals.  I am not under the impression that he is going to start a business doing the modification, but he did discuss and explain the process on a thread in late March so others might do the same.  A good lathe, tools, micrometer and plasma cutter are needed.  You can find the thread here.  Chet is an extremely gifted man that has and knows how to use the machining tools in his shop.  What I found unique in his rebuild was that he cut pin blanks from aluminum stock while constantly checking fit in the holes.  On the head he did for me the pins are of different diameters compensating for wear.  He then made steel pins the same diameter as the aluminum test pins once he got the fit he wanted.  I just got the TSLB installed on the Volvo last week so I do not have any test mileage on the head he modified but have absolutely no doubt it will perform flawlessly. 

If my memory serves me well Henry's replacement Super Binkley head has the right plate for the Trailer Saver and can reuse the jaws and a couple of other parts from a Binkley and possibly save the customer a good chunk of change.  Don't toss your old head, the jaws apparently have value.  Like anything Henry builds, this new head will be virtually bulletproof and of the highest quality in materials and workmanship.  If I were starting from scratch and could not repair my existing Binkley head I would put my money into Henry's replacement.  IMHO, we are fortunate to have Henry's engineering expertise and passion for perfection building products for our RV HDT's.

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Randy, Nancy and Oscar

"The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks.

ARS - WB4BZX, Electrical Engineer, Master Electrician, D.Ed., Professor Emeritus - Happily Retired!

 

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Jcsteele, Jack posted a way to upload pictures.  It works for me but things act a little strange on the first click to the link: I get a cookie error.  I just click on the link again and it works.  Just drag and drop a picture or search for one on your computer.  Jack's instructions are here:

 

Chet & Deb
'01 Volvo 660 w/ Smart
'19 Forest River Columbus 320RS 5th wheel
2022 Chev 2500HD Long Bed
Retired CWO4, USN and federal service
Electronics Tech/Network Engineer/Welder/Machinist

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37 minutes ago, NeverEasy said:

If you get it to me in Virginia Beach, I would be happy to attempt a fix.  Cannot say if it is repairable until I take it apart and see.  Not too hard after doing the first one for RandyA. 

I am not a Dr Pepper fan, I drink Diet Coke.  You would have to buy about $30 worth of inch and a half 1045 rod about a foot long.  I might even have enough left from Randy's hitch to do another one.

There was a lot of discussion here:

We will be leaving for Idaho on May 27th.  Be back late June.

 

Dang! I am currently “home” in Central Oregon (5 hours from Caldwell, ID) and even going to Boise over memorial day.... too bad your shop isnt mobile!! I rarely get out to the east coast 😞

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I usually like to go the most frugal route but in this case i really have no time for down time.... is there a way to buy the super binkley already welded on the swivel base that goes in the trailer saver?

I know I really need to call Henry.......... Lol

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1 hour ago, jcsteele said:

Dang! I am currently “home” in Central Oregon (5 hours from Caldwell, ID) and even going to Boise over memorial day.... too bad your shop isnt mobile!! I rarely get out to the east coast 😞

Your that close to Caldwell and your not coming to the WCR?  😧  You should come check it out.  It’s going to be a good time.

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10 hours ago, Chad Heiser said:

Your that close to Caldwell and your not coming to the WCR?  😧  You should come check it out.  It’s going to be a good time.

I wish I had time 😞 Work takes me all over the place and usually on a very tight schedule.

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This is a photo from the right side of the retainer plate Chet used for holding the new pins in place.  They can now be easily removed.

FEttJ79l.jpg

Below:  The pin in the foreground is the aluminum pin Chet made to determine exact fitment.  The aluminum pin was reproduced in steel for the final assembly.  The pin in the back is the OEM pin.  Note the shoulder on the new pin that acts as a retainer.

SzZbSGrl.jpg

 

 

300.JPG.c2a50e50210ede7534c4c440c7f9aa80.JPG

Randy, Nancy and Oscar

"The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks.

ARS - WB4BZX, Electrical Engineer, Master Electrician, D.Ed., Professor Emeritus - Happily Retired!

 

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TraileSaver head and swiveler replacements are  available from ET Hitches on an exchange basis (old Binkley and old swiveler being a core). It hasn't made the website yet.

zdyllKal.jpg

kMPfmKKl.jpg

Bu7FVbCl.jpg

The head is a brand new Super Binkley (slightly smaller version of the Super Binkley), the swiveler is a TrailerSaver bottom modified to accept the Super Binkley (hence the need for the core).

 

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Quote

Are the pins wearing in the Holland  fifth wheel because it is mounted to the Trailer Saver air suspension - being in constant motion under tow conditions?  

2

From what I can see on the Holland-Binkley head the main problem contributing to the wear is the way the pins were placed without any way to apply sufficent lubricant (non-serviceable according to Hensley).  So, as you asked the wear in the pins would come from the forward and backward tilt of the head as one travels.  The airbags "may" contribute to the movement but when you rotate steel against steel under the pressure or force on the pins without lubricant the wear is inevitable.  I was beginning to see similar wear on the non-airbag Reese hitch head I was using prior to getting the parts to assemble a full Trailer Saver hitch from Dave and Chet.  Since Chet has developed a modification to not only make replacement of the pins fairly easy they can also be lubricated by the same methods wet bolts are on a trailer suspension.   Only time will tell but I expect that with proper maintenance the replaced pins will outlast me.

Henry's new design of his "Super Binkley" head appears to have removed the non-serviceable limitation of the OEM head.

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Randy, Nancy and Oscar

"The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks.

ARS - WB4BZX, Electrical Engineer, Master Electrician, D.Ed., Professor Emeritus - Happily Retired!

 

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Randy or Chet,

I know from GeorgiaHybrid that 1045 is strong steel but does the lube channel in the pin itself weaken the pin and add a point it could crack?  Just wondering if a design change with the grease bathing the pin through a zert would be better.  For example on Henry’s second picture an accessible zert in the tabs?  Just a question for the experts.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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1 hour ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Randy or Chet,

I know from GeorgiaHybrid that 1045 is strong steel but does the lube channel in the pin itself weaken the pin and add a point it could crack?  Just wondering if a design change with the grease bathing the pin through a zert would be better.  For example on Henry’s second picture an accessible zert in the tabs?  Just a question for the experts.

The pins on the Binkley see an awful lot of IMPACT! Up to 1/2G when things are new and most likely several Gs once wear causes for gaps to develop and the force vectors on the pins (up and down and forward and back) change from pressure forces to hammering forces.

The pins see 1G force down of the pin weight constantly, so that's 3-6,000 pounds, but that's nothing compared to 1/2G forward and back on 20-25K trailer (10-12,500 pounds) and that can be a lot more (several Gs) once gaps develop and things travel through open space and then come to an instantaneous stop. That's why hammers work so well when you pound on something. Whatever force you apply to the hammer with you wrist is hundreds of times more when that hammer hits and comes to an abrupt stop.

To mitigate things you need to spread the forces over a larger area. On the original Binkley the forces on the pins act on the  vertical tabs only. Note that in my "modification" I enlarged that area significantly by welding in longer bushings. The inside of the bushings is lined with a high end non-greaseable composite bearing, that material can withstand pressure of 27,000 pounds per square inch, there are over 3 square inches of area in each bearing.

Putting zerks in pins was my initial thought, but I had the same concern Carl has that once you drill grease alleys, particularly sideways to redirect the grease to the "areas of interest" what happens over the time with all that impact and shear forces. So the second thought I had to put zerks in the top of the ears and drive the grease down towards the pins. That required putting access holes in the top of the head and low profile zerks (head rotation clearance), etc., etc, lot of work.

Hence my current "solution", chop the old ears off, re-weld new ones on with larger bushings and bearings. Re-utilize the old swiveler to hold the cost down and re-utilize the old jaws and block from the old Binkley again to hold the cost down.:D 

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39 minutes ago, phoenix2013 said:

The pins on the Binkley see an awful lot of IMPACT! Up to 1/2G when things are new and most likely several Gs once wear causes for gaps to develop and the force vectors on the pins (up and down and forward and back) change from pressure forces to hammering forces.

The pins see 1G force down of the pin weight constantly, so that's 3-6,000 pounds, but that's nothing compared to 1/2G forward and back on 20-25K trailer (10-12,500 pounds) and that can be a lot more (several Gs) once gaps develop and things travel through open space and then come to an instantaneous stop. That's why hammers work so well when you pound on something. Whatever force you apply to the hammer with you wrist is hundreds of times more when that hammer hits and comes to an abrupt stop.

To mitigate things you need to spread the forces over a larger area. On the original Binkley the forces on the pins act on the  vertical tabs only. Note that in my "modification" I enlarged that area significantly by welding in longer bushings. The inside of the bushings is lined with a high end non-greaseable composite bearing, that material can withstand pressure of 27,000 pounds per square inch, there are over 3 square inches of area in each bearing.

Putting zerks in pins was my initial thought, but I had the same concern Carl has that once you drill grease alleys, particularly sideways to redirect the grease to the "areas of interest" what happens over the time with all that impact and shear forces. So the second thought I had to put zerks in the top of the ears and drive the grease down towards the pins. That required putting access holes in the top of the head and low profile zerks (head rotation clearance), etc., etc, lot of work.

Hence my current "solution", chop the old ears off, re-weld new ones on with larger bushings and bearings. Re-utilize the old swiveler to hold the cost down and re-utilize the old jaws and block from the old Binkley again to hold the cost down.:D 

Thanks Henry.  I’m slowly learning about sites of potential stress and failure.  Now it gives some perspective to why in big projects welds are xrayed for defects and same with concrete.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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Nothing less than what I would expect from Henry's amazing engineering brain!

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Randy, Nancy and Oscar

"The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks.

ARS - WB4BZX, Electrical Engineer, Master Electrician, D.Ed., Professor Emeritus - Happily Retired!

 

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2 hours ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Randy or Chet,

I know from GeorgiaHybrid that 1045 is strong steel but does the lube channel in the pin itself weaken the pin and add a point it could crack?  Just wondering if a design change with the grease bathing the pin through a zert would be better.  For example on Henry’s second picture an accessible zert in the tabs?  Just a question for the experts.

I am not a metallurgist nor do I have the knowledge Henry does about "such things". My only claim to fame was being a straight A student in Physics many years ago.  But, IMHO, I believe that there is a lessened chance of this happening than one would have with the hole cross drilled in the OEM pin that has a small retainer pin pressed in as the retainer.  Now, if one neglects to keep the assembly greased I can see wear issues quickly returning.  There is no doubt that Henry always builds a better mouse trap and it is a crying shame he is not the president of Lippert.  But Chet has devised a way to circumvent the "non-servicable" component with something better than their original factory engineered design.  The possibility of cracking cannot be tossed away, but the likelihood of it happening with a recreational fifth wheel in the weight class we (I, Chet or you) are towing is pretty darn small.  I feel safer with Chet's design and mod than I would with the OEM pins.  Yes, I would also like to have Henry's upgrade and perhaps one day I will.  But, right now I am as happy as a pig in mud to have what I do and can't thank those enough that worked to see that I had a proper, safe hitch for the heavier trailer we bought after the fire that did not have the TrairAir airbag pin box.

300.JPG.c2a50e50210ede7534c4c440c7f9aa80.JPG

Randy, Nancy and Oscar

"The Great White" - 2004 Volvo VNL670, D12, 10-speed, converted to single axle pulling a Keystone Cambridge 5th wheel, 40', 4 slides and about 19,000# with empty tanks.

ARS - WB4BZX, Electrical Engineer, Master Electrician, D.Ed., Professor Emeritus - Happily Retired!

 

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3 hours ago, phoenix2013 said:

The reason I am "so smart" because I spent all my life listening to guys like Chet.

Proving that you are "wise" as well.

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6 hours ago, phoenix2013 said:

The reason I am "so smart" because I spent all my life listening to guys like Chet.

Henry I have remembered some of your phrases when you did my hitch at the ECR and even applied one or two so I might be as "smart" but my dad always said listen and learn.

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