Is moving axle 10" worth the effort

[noteven]

I walked into Copper State Cycles in Wickenburg AZ a month ago and there it was... a Combat Wombat 

Me first bike was a fast Yamaha RD350, with a CZ 250 soon after for pasture work 

[jenandjon]

18 hours ago, Lance A Lott said:

Sorry if my typing and my thoughts are not always the same. My intentions are too move the rear axle forward to replace the original front drive axle. I have shortened the frame and installed a gooseneck ball at my desired position. The only other placement for the axle that I have considered is 10" back from the original front axle placement. As this would make more work I was asking if there was a huge reason too move it. 

I did remove the rear axle and test drove the truck and trailer with the devider axle. I had no issues with that setup. I may not have mentioned that my 630 is a vnm so it  is shorter than a vnl already and looks fine singled short.

I had a couple of reasons for test driving with just the devider axle. First I just had to hitch on and pull my trailer. And second I don't know anyone with a hdt so other than over the net info I was shooting blind. I used everything I was able too learn from the vast knowledge you are able to impart and made a choice. So far so good.

If you are going to move the rear axle to where the front is then that's easy. The holes are already there and the original drive shaft should work. I looked at doing that myself. Just make sure you use frame bolts and re torque them after a couple thousand miles.

[noteven]

The interaxle driveline should be a different series/dimension than the transmission to front drive axle driveline - yoke change maybe?

 

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

12 minutes ago, noteven said:

The interaxle driveline should be a different series/dimension than the transmission to front drive axle driveline - yoke change maybe?

 

Yes, when the new driveshaft gets cut, the rear yoke is used to match the diff.

 

[Dollytrolley]

On March 12, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Lance A Lott said:

I am getting ready to put the rear axle back under my 630. I ran it as a test on the devider last summer and it worked fine. Really tunes sharp and handled fine. With my hitch position I liked the wheight shift of the front end. My needs will either let me keep it short or move it back 10". So the question is is it worth the extra work ?. It will go from 182" wb to 192".

Good morning Lott,

Just scratching my head wondering how you arrived at TEN inches to stretch the ole truck? 

 

You say .... "With my hitch position I like the wheight shift of the front end".......so what was the "wheight shift"??

 

So........IF ......if you stretch the wheel base what will it do to the "wheight shift" and what would you do with the "hitch position"??

We do the horse haul thing and depending the trip weights can change a lot from trip to trip so the truck sees a lot of variable loads.....

 

hauling a a nag or a herd of nags can be a adventure....

Drive on..........(Hauling nags can be a......wheighteee adventure)

[noteven]

On a set back wide track steer axle KW model the turn radius will change by approx 1/2 the change in wheelbase dimension. 

Not sure for Volvo trucks

[Jack Mayer]

19 hours ago, Chad Heiser said:

To add a Signature, click on your name in the upper right corner of the Escapees page.  Select Account Settings from the menu that appears.  On the left hand side of the screen, you will see several choices for the settings you can update.  The last one is Signature.  Select that to create/edit your personal signature.

You should also be able to tell your computer that the picture posting page is not a spam/virus page.  The way to do this will be dependent on the browser/operating system you are using.

Anyone got a better picture inserter?  The one I used (that others here use as well) seems to not work right anymore.

 

[Jack Mayer]

In your case I'd be inclined to leave it short, assuming you are not WAY back with the hitch. You will love the maneuvering.  Mine was singled to 182". Big difference over a longer wb truck.

[Chad Heiser]

1 hour ago, Jack Mayer said:

Anyone got a better picture inserter?  The one I used (that others here use as well) seems to not work right anymore.

 

I just tested it (in test posts) and it is still working on my end.

Since we are talking short wheelbase, here is another test picture of my short wheelbase truck:

[noteven]

160” wheelbase

Picture poster tool works except

Jack - a couple times it opens a Google page of some kind first. Close that, click the link again and it opens the picture posting tool. 

[Jack Mayer]

14 hours ago, noteven said:

160” wheelbase

Picture poster tool works except

Jack - a couple times it opens a Google page of some kind first. Close that, click the link again and it opens the picture posting tool. 

Anyone have a tool that does not cause this aggravation???

 

[noteven]

Jack - when I click on the link in the picture posting sticky thread it opens a Google cookie manager page. Close that page and click the link again and the tool opens. 

When I click on the link to the tool I posted direct here: Image posting tool 

it opens without the Google cookie manager page opening first.  Does the same on me PC or IOS devices. 

No idee why.... is something haywire with the link in the sticky? 

 

 

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

182" wheel base

There have been a few sections of concrete highway where I wish the truck was 2 feet longer so it would span the slab sections better.

 

[GlennWest]

Beautiful truck. Is it your commute vechile? 

[Roger & Margaret]

1 hour ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

There have been a few sections of concrete highway where I wish the truck was 2 feet longer so it would span the slab sections better.

The ride is my concern also.  We will be going mid with a smart car bed.  I'll use the smart as my daily driver.

Nice looking truck!

[noteven]

1 hour ago, GlennWest said:

Beautiful truck. Is it your commute vechile? 

Thanks Glenn. 

Oh... you were talking about Alie&Jim's ...

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

6 hours ago, GlennWest said:

Beautiful truck. Is it your commute vechile? 

If asking me, yes it's our daily driver as well.

[Lance A Lott]

Ok I am mostly dug out from the third nor'easter this month, it looks like # 4 next week.  The truck was 16840lb stock, 9860 front 6980 rear. With the fifth wheel, rear axle removed and frame shortened it is 14720lb 9460 front 5260 rear. With the trailer on but no bed its is 18340lb 8300 front and 10040 rear. That give a hitch wheight of 3620lb. change in the number horses  won't change that by much. Two and a half of the horse are right over the axles and the rear horse is behind the rear axle.  The trailer is 29 1/2' from the center of the front axle to the center of the hitch.  

So by singleing short I transfer almost a 1000lbs of the front end and anything I put on the deck will still load the rear more than the front by a large margin.

 I don't really want  to move the axle but now is the time to get advice not after I build the bed. The 10" is the distance I can move the axle back by using the rear mounting holes as the front mounting holes on the shackle.  There are other holes further back that could be utilized they are at 16&18 and 26&28 inches. I have every confidence in my ability to Aline the axle in a new position but I hope Volvo did an even better job of positioning things than I can. 

The axle is almost centered under the flat portion of the proposed deck. It looks a little funny with the frame sticking out the back 18" but the boat tail will hide that. I have a few 2x8's screwed together for a test deck.

Jack what would you consider way back on the hitch? And where would you be measuring from? As it now sit it is 59 inches from the center of the axle to the center of the ball. Which this proposed setup I don't see how I could load the rear enough to make the front even 50% lighter than the rear. As proposed the front will be 20% lighter than the rear. I think it about a 40-60 split as proposed.

I value all the input I can get. Someone mentioned road slabs I have yet two have a truck that rode good on those. Even my school bus doesn't like them. I would not want to move the axle back a lot as I think I want the maneuverability of the short truck and long tail with such a long wheelbase trailer, if I am not making a load mistake. Thanks Lance

 

[Dollytrolley]

4 hours ago, Lance A Lott said:

Ok I am mostly dug out from the third nor'easter this month, it looks like # 4 next week.  The truck was 16840lb stock, 9860 front 6980 rear. With the fifth wheel, rear axle removed and frame shortened it is 14720lb 9460 front 5260 rear. With the trailer on but no bed its is 18340lb 8300 front and 10040 rear. That give a hitch wheight of 3620lb. change in the number horses  won't change that by much. Two and a half of the horse are right over the axles and the rear horse is behind the rear axle.  The trailer is 29 1/2' from the center of the front axle to the center of the hitch.  

So by singleing short I transfer almost a 1000lbs of the front end and anything I put on the deck will still load the rear more than the front by a large margin.

 I don't really want  to move the axle but now is the time to get advice not after I build the bed. The 10" is the distance I can move the axle back by using the rear mounting holes as the front mounting holes on the shackle.  There are other holes further back that could be utilized they are at 16&18 and 26&28 inches. I have every confidence in my ability to Aline the axle in a new position but I hope Volvo did an even better job of positioning things than I can. 

The axle is almost centered under the flat portion of the proposed deck. It looks a little funny with the frame sticking out the back 18" but the boat tail will hide that. I have a few 2x8's screwed together for a test deck.

Jack what would you consider way back on the hitch? And where would you be measuring from? As it now sit it is 59 inches from the center of the axle to the center of the ball. Which this proposed setup I don't see how I could load the rear enough to make the front even 50% lighter than the rear. As proposed the front will be 20% lighter than the rear. I think it about a 40-60 split as proposed.

I value all the input I can get. Someone mentioned road slabs I have yet two have a truck that rode good on those. Even my school bus doesn't like them. I would not want to move the axle back a lot as I think I want the maneuverability of the short truck and long tail with such a long wheelbase trailer, if I am not making a load mistake. Thanks Lance

 

Lott,

 

Dolly-the-paint-horse and Dollymoma are likely to graduate from the latest horsewoman ship collage course / clinic (horse-money-pit) so........

 

After I get caught up with my slave-stable-boy-chores ........I might........I might huddle in the corner of the Dollytrolley (v2.5) and run some numbers in the old weight and balance spreadsheet using the somewhat sketchy numbers you have posted so far.

As for the missing numbers I will make some WAG's and fill in those numbers that I deem ok........ok?

 

The. Spreadsheet is exact.........the rub is the numbers we put in the spreadsheet tend to be not-so-exact so.........junk in, junk out.........but hey it a darn truck so it's like horseshoes ........close counts......some.

We are out in the middle of nowhere Az so net service is a bit sketchy so hang in there....

 

Drive on.........(lotsa numbers from nowhere........maybe)

[Lance A Lott]

Dollytrolley, what numbers would help you? I appreciate the help, but don't put yourself out.  Us stable boys have to take our leisure when we can. The truck and trailer rode and handled well on my test drives. Now that I am getting ready to exchange the axles, I was wondering if there was a major reason to due the extra work of re-positioning the axle.  I will try to put in a picture I took before I put in the goose neck hitch, I think this was the orientation I ended up with. The frame is now a bit shorter, the red label is gone. This makes it 64'6" overall

My other truck and trailer

amazing how you can''t find the pictures you want

[Dollytrolley]

17 hours ago, Lance A Lott said:

Dollytrolley, what numbers would help you? I appreciate the help, but don't put yourself out.  Us stable boys have to take our leisure when we can. The truck and trailer rode and handled well on my test drives. Now that I am getting ready to exchange the axles, I was wondering if there was a major reason to due the extra work of re-positioning the axle.  I will try to put in a picture I took before I put in the goose neck hitch, I think this was the orientation I ended up with. The frame is now a bit shorter, the red label is gone. This makes it 64'6" overall

Lott, good morning,

Dolly-tha-paint-horse graduated with honors from the latest horse collage / money pit last night and this morning I have a........PH.D. (Pile it Higher& Deeper) ........so we have to evacuate the horse collage-camp so that a new herd of victim-equine-operators can move in and unload a bunch of $$$$.......

 

So.........about the numbers that might missing.........hummmm.......looking at the image of your rig it looks like the fuel tanks hold more than 5 gallons.......is there another fuel tank on the passenger side? Fuel adds up ........or it subtract down on these trucks depending on.......well the fuel level so if you have TWO 150 Gal tanks that are full it weighs more than 10 pounds.......it has a sleeper and sleepers tend to gain weight and then more weight and, and,.......

 

So where the devil-is-in-Tha-details is .........variable loads AND the LOCATIONS of those loads so many BIG RV owners just think that they can load anything anywhere a pretty soon they have Trey an Sue scale the rig and are amazed that they are amoung the 57% of RV rigs that have one or more wheel position overweight.

 

So the numbers needed often are a WAG.......but I have calculate enough rigs that I get lucky some of the time.

 

Drive on .......( what do you mean you put TEN , 42 pound bags of cat litter under the sleeper bed.........(true ))

[Lance A Lott]

Congrats to Dolly and Mom for successful graduation from the horse collage and you for surviving another money pit. You do know how to make a small fortune with horses, start with a large one.  I have always wondered where I could get the large one to start with.

 

Back to the truck, only one tank. I will be putting my generator on the other side. I was going to put the Sherpa T on the deck but Nadine want's the Spider, we will see.   No cat litter any way, Zeva the devil dog goes for walks. You are correct about trucks and trailers gaining weight, much like me.

[Dollytrolley]

On 3/17/2018 at 11:16 AM, Lance A Lott said:

Congrats to Dolly and Mom for successful graduation from the horse collage and you for surviving another money pit. You do know how to make a small fortune with horses, start with a large one.  I have always wondered where I could get the large one to start with.

 

Back to the truck, only one tank. I will be putting my generator on the other side. I was going to put the Sherpa T on the deck but Nadine want's the Spider, we will see.   No cat litter any way, Zeva the devil dog goes for walks. You are correct about trucks and trailers gaining weight, much like me.

Lott ,

We are on the Lamb near Wickenburg but only net service is when we wonder by the library so I will crunch abbunch of numbers and confuse you more then ever...

 

Ain't the equine-mobility-Gig a few tons-of-fun.....

Hang on LOTT of number headed your way.....

 

Drive on ......(equine-mobility-Gig.....tons and tons of fun)

 

[Lance A Lott]

Dollytrolly no hurry still over a foot of snow and cold. I do have to get the volvo, wish i could think of a cool name for it, out of the garage so i can use the lift to fix the plow truck. My parents arived today from Texas and i had to plow a place for dads garage to park. I was pumping more gas on the ground than i can afford.

[Dollytrolley]

Hay Lott,

We just landed back at Last Chance Peak on our return trip from Equine-Collage Via Wickenburg, Az and Hole-In-The Wall-Horse-Camp at the Mojave National Perserve......so......in a break between cleaning corrals I cobbled together some numbers for your Weight & Balance loading(s) ...........C. G 's varied from 99" to about 127" ..............

************************************************************************************************************************* 

 

L. Lott- Baseline and trial Weight & Balance Calcs for various wheelbases and hitch locations.

 

1# Baseline Truck (as weighed NO trailer)

Wheelbase 182”

Front Axle : 9460 Lbs (Station 0”) = 64.27%

Rear Axle : 5260 Lbs (Station 182”) = 35.27%

Hitch Pin: 0 Lbs (Station 241”)

Total: 14720 Lbs

 

 

2# Baseline Truck (as weighed WITH trailer)

Wheelbase 182”

Front Axle : 8286 Lbs (Station 0”) = 45.18%

Rear Axle : 10054 Lbs (Station 182”) =  54.82%

Hitch Pin: 3620 Lbs (Station 241”)

Total: 18340 Lbs

 

 

3# Lott Truck Wheelbase increased +10 inches from baseline truck(as calculated WITH trailer)

Wheelbase 192”

Front Axle : 8536 Lbs (Station 0”) = 46.54%

Rear Axle : 9804 Lbs (Station 192”) = 53.46%

Hitch Pin: 3620 Lbs (Station 241”)

Total: 18340 Lbs

 

 

4# Lott Truck Wheelbase increased +16 inches from baseline truck(as calculated WITH trailer)

Wheelbase 198”

Front Axle : 8674 Lbs (Station 0”) = 47.29%

Rear Axle : 9666 Lbs (Station 198”) = 52.71%

Hitch Pin: 3620 Lbs (Station 241”)

Total: 18340 Lbs

 

 

5# Lott Truck Wheelbase increased +18 inches from baseline truck(as calculated WITH trailer)

Wheelbase 200”

Front Axle : 8718 Lbs (Station 0”) = 47.53%

Rear Axle : 9622 Lbs (Station 200”) = 52.47%

Hitch Pin: 3620 Lbs (Station 241”)

Total: 18340 Lbs

 

 

6# Lott Truck Wheelbase increased +26 inches from baseline truck(as calculated WITH trailer)

Wheelbase 208”

Front Axle : 8886 Lbs (Station 0”) = 48.45%

Rear Axle : 9454 Lbs (Station 208”) = 51.55%

Hitch Pin: 3620 Lbs (Station 241”)

Total: 18340 Lbs

 

7# Lott Truck Wheelbase increased +28 inches from baseline truck(as calculated WITH trailer)

Wheelbase 210”

Front Axle : 8926 Lbs (Station 0”) = 48.67%

Rear Axle : 9414 Lbs (Station 210”) = 51.33%

Hitch Pin: 3620 Lbs (Station 241”)

Total: 18340 Lbs

 

 

8# Lott Truck Wheelbase increased +28 inches from baseline truck, PLUS move hitch aft 28 inches PLUS add Smart car (2000 Lbs @ station 182”)(as calculated WITH trailer)

 

Wheelbase 210”

Front Axle : 8710 Lbs (Station 0”) = 42.82%

Rear Axle : 11630 Lbs (Station 210”) = 57.18%

Hitch Pin: 3620 Lbs (Station 269”)

Total: 20340 Lbs

 

 

9# Lott Truck Wheelbase increased +28 inches from baseline truck, PLUS move hitch aft 28 inches PLUS add Smart car (2000 Lbs @ station 182”) PLUS increase hitch weight to 4620 Lbs (as calculated WITH trailer)

 

Wheelbase 210”

Front Axle : 8429 Lbs (Station 0”) = 39.50%

Rear Axle : 12911 Lbs (Station 210”) = 60.50%

Hitch Pin: 4620 Lbs (Station 269”)

Total: 21340 Lbs

 

 

10# Lott Truck Wheelbase 182” (baseline truck), PLUS move hitch aft 28 inches PLUS add Smart car (2000 Lbs @ station 182”) PLUS increase hitch weight to 4620 Lbs (as calculated WITH trailer)

 

Wheelbase 182”

Front Axle : 7252 Lbs (Station 0”) = 33.98%

Rear Axle : 14088 Lbs (Station 182”) = 66.02%

Hitch Pin: 4620 Lbs (Station 269”)

Total: 21340 Lbs

 

 

11# Lott Truck Wheelbase 182” (baseline truck), PLUS move hitch aft 28 inches PLUS REMOVE Smart car (-2000 Lbs @ station 182”) PLUS increase hitch weight to 4620 Lbs (as calculated WITH trailer)

 

Wheelbase 182”

Front Axle : 7252 Lbs (Station 0”) = 37.50%

Rear Axle : 12088 Lbs (Station 182”) = 62.50%

Hitch Pin: 4620 Lbs (Station 269”)

Total: 19340 Lbs

 

Drive on.............(where is my wheelbase.......today)