forxlr8n Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 After talking to a local DMV office they had the Manager over CDL requirements, weights and measures call me. You do not have to have a CDL to pull your camp in the state of va. He said only Commercial vehicles require a CDL. He also stated the CDL book tells what is required but doesn't list the exceptions for that you must use the definitions. He gave this info: VA code 46.2-341.4 this is a snip of it Commercial motor vehicle” means, except for those vehicles specifically excluded in this definition, every motor vehicle, vehicle or combination of vehicles used to transport passengers or property which either: (i) has a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds; or (ii) has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds inclusive of a towed vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 10,000 pounds; or (iii) is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver; or (iv) is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section. Every such motor vehicle or combination of vehicles shall be considered a commercial motor vehicle whether or not it is used in a commercial or profit-making activity.The following shall be excluded from the definition of commercial motor vehicle: any vehicle when used by an individual solely for his own personal purposes, such as personal recreational activities; "If you can not measure it, you can not improve it." Lord Kelvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark and Dale Bruss Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 The full code in State Listing of Drivers Licenses for HDTs VA_46_2_341_4.pdf. That covers Virginia, there are 50 more definitions. Please click for Emails instead of PM Mark & DaleJoey - 2016 Bounder 33C Tige - 2006 40' Travel SupremeSparky III - 2021 Mustang Mach-e, off the the Road since 2019 Useful HDT Truck, Trailer, and Full-timing Info atwww.dmbruss.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forxlr8n Posted March 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 29 minutes ago, Mark and Dale Bruss said: The full code in State Listing of Drivers Licenses for HDTs VA_46_2_341_4.pdf. That covers Virginia, there are 50 more definitions. I printed the whole thing out for my book. "If you can not measure it, you can not improve it." Lord Kelvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'mdonewiththis forum Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 With your HDT I know of no state that requires a CDL. IF and only IF you are using the truck as a commercial vehicle are you required to have a CDL. There are states that require a NON commercial class "A" license, but no CDL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark and Dale Bruss Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 1 minute ago, Mntom said: With your HDT I know of no state that requires a CDL. IF and only IF you are using the truck as a commercial vehicle are you required to have a CDL. There are states that require a NON commercial class "A" license, but no CDL. Blanket statements like that are dangerous. Check out Arizona, DC, Hawaii, and Maryland, Please click for Emails instead of PM Mark & DaleJoey - 2016 Bounder 33C Tige - 2006 40' Travel SupremeSparky III - 2021 Mustang Mach-e, off the the Road since 2019 Useful HDT Truck, Trailer, and Full-timing Info atwww.dmbruss.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPL Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 forxir8n Are you in Va? I live in Chesapeake. I got my CDL after I got the truck but like you said I don't need it For Va. I just wanted it so that I could show that the state of Va said I was Qualified to operate a class 8. I took the test using our 37' Cardinal for a trailer. No problem. But I need the medical phy every year. Blood pressure. At least I'm around to need it! Are you going to be at the ECR? Pat The Old Sailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sclord2002 Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 South Carolina requires a class F license for " Combination of non-commercial vehicles exceeding 26,000 lbs GVW ". Note that SC uses GVW and not GVWR. State requirements are all over the map, so to speak. Charlie Don't ever tell a soldier that he doesn't understand the cost of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemstone Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Hi Mark and Dale and good news. Arizona does not require a CDL. The exception is buried in the regulations. 28-3102. Exceptions to driver license classes; definitions A. Notwithstanding section 28-3101, a person who operates an authorized emergency vehicle, a farm vehicle or a recreational vehicle may operate the vehicle with a class A, B, C, D or G license. B. For the purposes of this section: 1. "Commercial farming" means the intensive cultivation of arable land by raising agricultural or horticultural products as a principal source of the owner's livelihood. 2. "Commercial stock raising" means breeding, raising and caring for domestic animals as a principal source of the owner's livelihood. 3. "Farm vehicle" means a vehicle or combination of vehicles that is used for commercial farming or commercial stock raising and that meets all of the following requirements: (a) Is controlled and operated by the farm vehicle owner or the owner's family member or employee. (b) Is used to transport agricultural products, machinery or supplies to or from a commercial farming or a commercial stock raising operation. (c) Is not used in the operations of a for-hire motor carrier. (d) Is used within one hundred fifty miles of the farm vehicle owner's commercial farming or commercial stock raising operation. 4. "For-hire motor carrier" means a person engaged in and compensated directly for the transportation of goods or passengers. 5. "Recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle or vehicle combination that is more than twenty-six thousand pounds gross vehicle weight rating and that is designed and exclusively used for private pleasure, including vehicles commonly called motor homes, pickup trucks with campers, travel trailers, boat trailers and horse trailers used exclusively to transport personal possessions or persons for noncommercial purposes. John McLaughlin 2010 Volvo 730, D13, I-shift, singled and decked 2014 Lifestyle 38' Fifth Wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 This would exempt you if you were able to register your HDT as something other than a commercial vehicle in AZ, but my understanding is the only way to register the HDT in AZ is as a commercial vehicle. As a result, it requires a commercial drivers license. The above definition of a recreational vehicle would exclude an HDT converted to RV hauler use because it wasn't designed for that purpose. It was designed to haul commercial trailers. I know this topic has been covered several times in the past regarding AZ registration and licensing requirements. I don't know if those topics are still available since the forum has upgraded several times since then. 2009 Volvo 670 with dinette/workstation sleeper - Walter 2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard 2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan 2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage) 2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage) My First Solar Install Thread My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet! chadheiser.com West Coast HDT Rally Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark and Dale Bruss Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Yes, everyone needs to remember that a state may allow a non-CDL license for an RV but you can't register an HDT as an RV. Regulations overlay each other and the "legal" is the option that satisfies all the layers Please click for Emails instead of PM Mark & DaleJoey - 2016 Bounder 33C Tige - 2006 40' Travel SupremeSparky III - 2021 Mustang Mach-e, off the the Road since 2019 Useful HDT Truck, Trailer, and Full-timing Info atwww.dmbruss.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasFlyer Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 "Missed it, by that much!!!" Sorry, couldn't resist. The trials and tribulations of regulations. Though I think it is quite commendable that you sought out the actual applicable regulations, rather than post an excerpt from a driver handbook, brochure, or website or from a conversation someone had with a LEO. John Southern Nevada 2008 Volvo 780, D13, I-Shift 2017 Keystone Fuzion 420 Toyhauler 2017 Can-Am Maverick X3-RS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark and Dale Bruss Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Do I need to repeat that the Arizona Reg is in the Resource Guide. As also for the rest of the states. Please click for Emails instead of PM Mark & DaleJoey - 2016 Bounder 33C Tige - 2006 40' Travel SupremeSparky III - 2021 Mustang Mach-e, off the the Road since 2019 Useful HDT Truck, Trailer, and Full-timing Info atwww.dmbruss.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemstone Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 On 3/25/2017 at 5:53 PM, Mark and Dale Bruss said: Blanket statements like that are dangerous. Check out Arizona, DC, Hawaii, and Maryland, Good news Mark and Dale. Arizona does not require a CDL to drive or pull an RV. A regular operator's license is fine. The exemption is somewhat hidden as Arizona Revised Statutes 28-3102: 28-3102. Exceptions to driver license classes; definitions A. Notwithstanding section 28-3101, a person who operates an authorized emergency vehicle, a farm vehicle or a recreational vehicle may operate the vehicle with a class A, B, C, D or G license. B. 5. "Recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle or vehicle combination that is more than twenty-six thousand pounds gross vehicle weight rating and that is designed and exclusively used for private pleasure, including vehicles commonly called motor homes, pickup trucks with campers, travel trailers, boat trailers and horse trailers used exclusively to transport personal possessions or persons for noncommercial purposes. As long as your truck cannot be used for commercial purposes you don't need a CDL in Arizona. However, taxes are based on the truck's weight, commercial or not. John McLaughlin 2010 Volvo 730, D13, I-shift, singled and decked 2014 Lifestyle 38' Fifth Wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 This is the same definition you posted above. An HDT still does not meet the recreational vehicle exemption in AZ as you have posted it. An HDT is not "designed and exclusively used for private pleasure." It may be used exclusively for private pleasure in your case, but it was not designed for that purpose. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but this topic has been argued multiple times in the past. AZ is just one of those states that is not HDT friendly for the RV world. You say as long as your truck "cannot be used for commercial purposes you don't need a CDL in Arizona." What could you do to an HDT to prevent it from being used for commercial purposes (besides remove all the wheels so you can't drive it)? Converting it to an RV hauler by singling it, removing the glad hands and the commercial hitch does not prevent it from being used for commercial purposes. You could still haul a race trailer to the races, a horse trailer to the rodeo, or deliver 5th wheels for hire as examples. Based on the way the AZ statutes are written there is no way to make an HDT anything other than a commercial vehicle. California is very similar in this, but they at least offer a non-commercial version of their Class A license to drive this type of vehicle for non commercial purposes. Nothing you have posted indicates Arizona does. I know there are a couple of AZ HDT owners on the forum and hopefully they will chime in with their experience, but it is my understanding that they have commercial registration and licenses. 2009 Volvo 670 with dinette/workstation sleeper - Walter 2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard 2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan 2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage) 2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage) My First Solar Install Thread My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet! chadheiser.com West Coast HDT Rally Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfaulkner Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 I recently tried to register my MDT In AZ without getting a CDL. Could not do it. Jer International 4700LP (2000) Travel Supreme (36RLTSOA) Fulltimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemstone Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 On 3/28/2017 at 0:05 PM, Chad Heiser said: This would exempt you if you were able to register your HDT as something other than a commercial vehicle in AZ, but my understanding is the only way to register the HDT in AZ is as a commercial vehicle. As a result, it requires a commercial drivers license. The above definition of a recreational vehicle would exclude an HDT converted to RV hauler use because it wasn't designed for that purpose. It was designed to haul commercial trailers. Chad, you are correct that Arizona considers only weight when deciding on whether your vehicle is "commercial". There is no RV provision in the registration tax. However, Arizona does specifically exempt RV drivers from the CDL license. I cited the law in an earlier post today. Exempting RV's from being considered commercial would cost Arizona revenue. Not going to happen, but the State doesn't care about your license. I argued the non-commercial point with the Az DMV folks and, as a result, learned that Arizona REALLY wants that money and will have it no matter what. Jer, before I had my Volvo I drove a Freighliner MDT. I never had an issue with my basic operators license. The law (Arizona Revised Statute 28-3102, B, 5) is clear in defining an RV and in exempting RV drivers from the CDL. Below is the operative sentence. The next part of the law defines an RV in a way that covers the HDTs as tow vehicles as long as they are not used commercially in any manner. 28-3102. Exceptions to driver license classes; definitions "A. Notwithstanding section 28-3101, a person who operates an authorized emergency vehicle, a farm vehicle or a recreational vehicle may operate the vehicle with a class A, B, C, D or G license." John McLaughlin 2010 Volvo 730, D13, I-shift, singled and decked 2014 Lifestyle 38' Fifth Wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark and Dale Bruss Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 28-3102 5. "Recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle or vehicle combination that is more than twenty-six thousand pounds gross vehicle weight rating and that is designed and exclusively used for private pleasure, including vehicles commonly called motor homes, pickup trucks with campers, travel trailers, boat trailers and horse trailers used exclusively to transport personal possessions or persons for noncommercial purposes. It is a bit of a stretch to say that a Class 8 Truck is considered as an RV haven't not been designed. Arizona does allow a conversion, like a Renegrade, to be licensed as an RV since it is significantly redesigned from the initial tractor format. One of the requirements is a permanently mounted Black tank, i.e no Porta-Potty. Chad Heiser fought this battle. You have to also watch State Regulations, which are not required to be posted like State Codes. These are usually defined by the Head of the Department of Transportation (or appropriate State name). This is where nitty griity issues like the Blank tank gets defined. Please click for Emails instead of PM Mark & DaleJoey - 2016 Bounder 33C Tige - 2006 40' Travel SupremeSparky III - 2021 Mustang Mach-e, off the the Road since 2019 Useful HDT Truck, Trailer, and Full-timing Info atwww.dmbruss.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 What you have posted still does not exempt you from a commercial driver license in AZ. This is from the AZ DOT website: Commercial Driver License (Class A, B or C) A commercial driver license (CDL) is required for drivers of heavyweight vehicles, 26,001 lbs. or more gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), vehicles hauling a trailer that is 10,001 lbs. (GVWR) or more where the combined GVWR is 26,001 lbs or more, vehicles capable of carrying 16 or more passengers (including the driver), or vehicles required to be placarded for hazardous material. An HDT RV hauler is not a motor home as you have indicated above. It has to be registered as a commercial vehicle. It will have a GVWR of greater than 26001 lbs, requiring a CDL. Your 5th wheel trailer will also have a GVWR of greater than 10001 lbs (an assumption on my part, but a 5th wheel of any decent size will easily exceed this), again requiring a CDL license in combination with an HDT per the above. AZ does not offer a non commercial license type to operate a vehicle that is above 26001 lbs or tows a trailer above 10001 lbs (with a combined weight greater than 26001 lbs), unless you fall within one of the specified exemptions (of which RV is one). You are not an RV as you have already indicated and you are not a farm vehicle or one of the other exemptions. Your only choice for a license is a commercial class A, B, or C. There are no other options. The AZ class D is for normal cars and the class G is for teenagers driving normal cars. There is nothing else left other than a class M which is only for motorcycles. I don't agree with this. I don't think you should have to get a commercial license, but AZ DOT says you do. There's no way around it to be legal. 2009 Volvo 670 with dinette/workstation sleeper - Walter 2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard 2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan 2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage) 2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage) My First Solar Install Thread My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet! chadheiser.com West Coast HDT Rally Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasFlyer Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 It all comes down to how your registration lists your vehicle, if it says Private Truck or Motorhome and you APPEAR to be using the vehicle as an RV at the time you are pulled over, you are most likely fine. If you are driving a vehicle that has a Commercial Truck registration, it doesn't matter what you are doing at the time you are pulled over, you had better have a CDL and all the trimmings. The Arizona provision which exempts recreational vehicles is for, Recreational Vehicles. It is not by simple chance that they register an HDT as a commercial vehicle. You may have operated an MDT for some time without a CDL, but that does not change the laws. In reference to laws, Arizona Revised Statutes lists the following: 28-601. Definitions 1. "Commercial motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle or combination of vehicles that is designed, used or maintained to transport passengers or property in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise, that is a commercial motor vehicle as defined in section 28-5201 and that is not exempt from gross weight fees as prescribed in section 28-5432, subsection B. The underlying problem with that definition lies with the word DESIGNED. Since the HDT was originally licensed with a manufacturer's declaration that the vehicle was designed as a commercial vehicle, it was, is and will remain as DESIGNED as a commercial vehicle, as far as the State of Arizona is concerned. That fact alone is what will keep an HDT as a commercial vehicle for as long as Arizona maintains that definition. As you can see, with that definition, an HDT will be a CMV by design and a Smart Car could become a CMV by use. The big difference being that if the Smart Car is no longer used as a CMV, it could cease to fit the definition of CMV because it was originally designed as a non-commercial vehicle. John Southern Nevada 2008 Volvo 780, D13, I-Shift 2017 Keystone Fuzion 420 Toyhauler 2017 Can-Am Maverick X3-RS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegas Teacher Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Well all of that legal jargon aside how do I register my truck (volvo 780) to be a private non commercial vehicle in the state of NV? I have heard this is possible. I am in Las Vegas so which DMV do I go to to do this? Later, Vegas Teacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasFlyer Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 For Nevada, you go to DMVand tell them that you want to register your truck, as a non commercial truck....... That's it. Be glad that they are not as complicated as Arizona or several other states. John Southern Nevada 2008 Volvo 780, D13, I-Shift 2017 Keystone Fuzion 420 Toyhauler 2017 Can-Am Maverick X3-RS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegas Teacher Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Thanks Flyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xboaters Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 On 3/25/2017 at 5:53 PM, Mark and Dale Bruss said: Blanket statements like that are dangerous. Check out Arizona, DC, Hawaii, and Maryland, And California! I talked with DMV in Sacramento this week and was told I would have to register the truck commercially, have a class A commercial license to drive it and stop at all weigh stations! That certainly threw a wet blanket all over my plans. 2000 Freightliner Century Class w/ sportsbed, 10 sp autoshift, Cummins N-14 475 hp, 3:73 rear and Trailersaver Hitch 2016 Voltage 3805 Toy hauler 1987 Chenowth Baja racer, 1835 CC VW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahoe Shark Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 18 minutes ago, Xboaters said: And California! I talked with DMV in Sacramento this week and was told I would have to register the truck commercially, have a class A commercial license to drive it and stop at all weigh stations! That certainly threw a wet blanket all over my plans. That has thrown a wet blanket over a lot of us. Still tempted, but for now I will continue using the "Volvo Lite" Tim & Cheryl 2022 Luxe 47FB “Hauley” 2017 Kenworth T680 - 13 Speed Ultra Shift - Herrin Hauler Bed “Buddy” Happily Living Somewhere In Nevada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 33 minutes ago, Xboaters said: And California! I talked with DMV in Sacramento this week and was told I would have to register the truck commercially, have a class A commercial license to drive it and stop at all weigh stations! That certainly threw a wet blanket all over my plans. This is mostly correct. It would have to be registered as a commercial vehicle just like a pick up is a commercial vehicle in CA. You would have to stop at scales solely because of the weight of the vehicle and you would have to have a Class A license if your 5th wheel had a GVW of greater than 15000 lbs. You would not have to have a commercial Class A, however. In CA, unlike AZ, they offer non commercial versions of all their licenses. 2009 Volvo 670 with dinette/workstation sleeper - Walter 2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard 2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan 2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage) 2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage) My First Solar Install Thread My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet! chadheiser.com West Coast HDT Rally Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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