When is an HDT too much truck?

[billr]

Nicely put Charlie. Reminds me of how Jeff Foxworthy might have said it ??

 

 

John, in response to your question 'When is an HDT too much truck ?" When you want to put it in your garage, a drive through or other tight space, it can be too much truck, When you are filling the 250-300 gallon fuel tanks or replacing up to 10 tires, it can be too much truck. When you want to buy a brand new one. it can be too much truck. If you have to take it to a shop every time it it hiccups, it can be too much truck. When you are washing and waxing it, it can be too much truck. When you want to park it in your neighborhood and can't, it can be too much truck. When your backing skills are not honed, it can be too much truck. When you can't climb into or out of it, it can be too much truck. When your towed unit is small enough to be towed by a Smart Car, it can be too much truck......BUT when you want to travel in comfort and safety and carry a Smart Car on the back, it's not too much truck. When you are coming down a long,steep grade using only the Jake an/or engine brake, it's not too much truck. When you have superior visibility, it's not too much truck. When you get out of the cab after a full day of driving and you still can walk normally, it's not too much truck........AND, FINALLY....When you smile when you see it, as you are climbing into the cab and while you are driving it down the road and as you toot the air horn in response to the kids in the station wagon beside you, it is not too much truck. just my opinions and your mileage may vary. To each his own. Be safe, Charlie

[johnpsz]

I will approach from a different perspective, one of having dual drivers and a second one of access to the cab. Leaving the business of waxing poetic to those like Winston Churchill or Eric Severied.

 

With DW's ankle having had issues, best let her see if she can mount one of these behemoths. One side of the truck may be easier than the other. She can always slide thru between the seats to the drivers side.

 

Re driving the truck...Mine is a 730 Ishift with a new version of the shifter which replace the old one. I have a detatched flexor tendon in my right thumb and was not able to hit the bump up /down buttons on the inside of the shifter.....moving on.

 

Once the truck is in gear, and up to speed, I engage the cruise control on the left stalk and the engine brake on the right stalk, weather permitting. I may not touch the service or foot brake or the "gas" pedal for hrs at a time. Generally making a pit stop every 2 > 4 hrs. Depending on fluid consumption.

 

What I'm getting at is it is I get tired for no reason. I can be after 2 hrs or 4 or 6. I have to pull over and shut my eyes for a while. With your wife, hopefully, being able to drive, she could spell you off and the trip could continue.

 

Even if she did some of the driving, you could still do the tight maneuvers unless she is able to do a better job parking because of your better hand or voice instructions.

 

Lastly, not sure where in Oregon you are but my plan is to head out to Florida in 3 weeks or so + -. Weather will dictate my route but the Rockies have to be crossed somewhere. Going thru Oregon is a probable. If that happens and depending where you or the trailer is, we could hook it up and take it up and down the steepest hill you can find or do the same with mine. Insurance may be an issue with yours.

 

If there is a decent sized open area have DW give it a try. Driving straight, turns, backing up, truck only. Maybe with the trailer, except backing that up.

 

Let me know

 

Roger

Roger,

 

That is an incredible offer of your time, but please don't adjust your schedule just for us. However, if things work out that you're heading through, we are south of Portland in a suburb town of West Linn.

 

Thanks,

John P.

[rdickinson]

John,

 

It isn't a big deal, really. My route of choice would across the pond from Victoria to Vancouver BC, South to Portland then push on to Salt Lake City thru Boise to drop in on RFMogul the Sat folks.

 

If the mountain weather is poor then I'd drive further South before driving through the Rockies.

 

I want to be in Tampa for the RV show mid January, other than that there is no particular schedule. Departure kind of depends on my Mothers Dementia and available care.

 

When the time came to consider another truck came , the Husky truck stop in Calgary was where it began. If the driver was around, I'd ask him questions and he would always let me climb aboard.

 

The Volvo's predecessor was an '01 IH 4700 DT 530, may it rest in peace. It was a stable platform but underpowered to pull 20.5 up a hill. The exhaust brake was not adequate for an 8% grade. Also being an '01, it was old tech and very noisy in the cab. It may be OK for 13 > 16k lbs. It was explained to me to be 70's technology. Lots of wind noise thru the door and mirrors, bumpy ride as well with 19.5" tires.

 

RV ing will be similar to boating, if the wife isn't solidly on board you will be taking the kids alone.

 

Bring the kids, a day out of my schedule is a non issue.

 

If the weather is OK, find a rip snorting big hill close by to better demonstrate the trucks capabilities.

 

Roger

[RickS]

When is an HDT too much truck?

 

I think the main thing for people is if you are not comfortable driving a HDT........it will be too much truck. My DW has taken here Q endorsement here in our province and is licenced to drive our truck......but she sure isn't comfortable doing so. I do all the driving.

[Jack Mayer]

Given the shop rates and parts rates of the new pickups and super pickups parts failure is pretty close to a "wash" these days. I've sen some of the costs of fixing these new trucks once out of warranty and frankly they really are not any different than an HDT from a repair perspective. At least that is my take on it. There may be "some" areas that an HDT is more....like replacing a fully automated HDT trans....but in general they seem very comparable these days.

[Dollytrolley]

Given the shop rates and parts rates of the new pickups and super pickups parts failure is pretty close to a "wash" these days. I've sen some of the costs of fixing these new trucks once out of warranty and frankly they really are not any different than an HDT from a repair perspective. At least that is my take on it. There may be "some" areas that an HDT is more....like replacing a fully automated HDT trans....but in general they seem very comparable these days.

 

Good points to ponder.....

 

Last spring our Old (1997) GMC 4 X 4 just gave-up at 180K miles and considering the loads it towed and carried much of it's life 180K was very good service.

 

Obviously a 97 GMC is not worth much.......however I liked the truck so.........I cast around for pricing for installing a re-man or new engine and the figures hovered from $6,500 to $8,500 .......However.........It could be more depending on the needs for "additional components and or additional labor".......gulp!

 

So.........how much did I like the old truck........well, it seems that I liked the old truck a lot.......because I unloaded it in our shop and jerked the engine and most of everything out front of the firewall and at the end of the summer the truck was "Like-new-again" and I had only spent about $6,000 on parts and my labor was......FREE

 

"A fool and his money are soon parted" ......according to the old saw and that likely explains my GMC project BUT on the upside it might just go on for another 180K so what the heck.......

 

I did try out a few New pickups but the ones as capable as the old GMC were pretty pricey and I tend to be sorta cheep ( but have greasy hands)......so hence I still have the old GMC....

 

I guess the point is...... that even older pickups are not cheep to work on and the new pickups tend to cost a ton more in the end.

 

HDT's are not cheap to be around but often the HDT parts are comparable or even cheaper than pickup parts .......it's not that HDT parts tend to be cheap but often New pickup parts are very expensive compared to the size and lack of quality of the parts (pickup) .......

 

These are some of the experiences that I have had operating both classes of trucks.........

 

Drive on.........(Sometimes savings are not.......Cheep)

[jkennell]

I tend to camp like you. State parks, local trips. It has NEVER been the truck that is the problem...rather finding a site for a 40' 5r! Any site I could get into with the PU, I can get into with a HDT. (Disclaimer: I'm a farmer and used to driving trailers & trucks of all sizes). The HDT turns tighter, has bigger mirrors, and just plain handles the trailer better. By moving the hitch to the rear tail of the HDT, I can spot the trailer anyplace...far easier than a LDT with the hitch over the rear axle.

 

Cruising down the road...absolutely no comparison. The HDT is smoother and easier to drive. The vIsibility is way better. Fuel economy is no worse that pulling the same trailer with a LDT.

 

Your kids will LOVE it.. Get a dinette and they can play computer games while being the coolest kids on the road.

 

Downsides? Yep. You have to climb up into the cab..can your wife handle that? You can never forget you are driving a BIG heavy truck. Slow down and take it easy. (It will actually stop better than your current trailer/LDT--but not when driving the truck by itself!) My truck is Manual shift, so small roads and stoplights are a pain. You have to maintain a special vehicle for camping (sorta like having a Class A). Finally, don't get a high top. It will limit your "daily driver" travel options, at least out east. Of course, the trailer is that high, but there are times you need to run to the store--and that 11' clearance bridge is always on the way!

Tires/parts/oil changes are more.

 

I strongly suggest you find one of the members on here near you, or go to one of the rally's and get a ride. Your wife may think this is the best thing since apple pie...or she might send you to the doghouse! I'd suggest that her feelings about it after you have had a chance to ride in one is gonna be the determining factor!

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

The other idea to remember is that many of us here have either moved into heavier/bigger rv's that overwhelmed our current pickups, or we started out with big rv's and spent a lot of money and time on band-aid fixes to improve the performance of the pickup to no avail.

Personal opinion- If you use 80-100% capacity of your truck every time you move, you will wear parts out faster. The truck in general will wear out faster. With an HDT parts can be more expensive. Even on our old '98 model the alternator was $400....gulp..... BUT the warranty is for 200,000 miles from purchase. It will likely take us 5-6 years to put that many miles on it using it as our daily driver. So parts may be more, but they last longer. If your planning on a 15-17k pound 5th wheel, then a new model dually is more than capable. If you go heavier then having more truck is better!

[rynosback]

Just Google it... I didn't find anything new, either. My computer must be too old...

You do not have a 2020 computer?

[Jaydrvr]

You do not have a 2020 computer?

Oh, THAT'S what's wrong....

[johnpsz]

OK, so here's what I have done this week...

 

I went to the local Ram dealer, my preferred brand, and worked on pricing out the trucks with options I wanted and so forth.

The lowest price with fewest options "I could live with" was just about $67,000 after the current rebates and all, and the "truck I would want" was $10-12K more than that. Even after discussing trade/down payment options, I was still looking at between $550-750 a month.

 

Today, I got a call back from Gregg at RVHaulers.ca. I talked with Gregg for more than 20 minutes with my 2 year old little girl wanting my attention in the background, even with all the distractions I got pricing, talked options, trucks in his pipeline, and all. After talking to Gregg I really think I was bit by the HDT bug without ever getting near a HDT, lol.

 

If I can find a way to get one of Gregg's HDT's financed like our 5th wheel was, with a 15 year loan and I could write off the interest (due to it being a "second home", according to my accountant) I think even with the cost of a done HDT RV hauler we could get less of a payment then the cheapest new Ram 1 ton truck I priced out. Next step is researching financing options, so the search of the forums on that topic begins, lol.

[Dollytrolley]

OK, so here's what I have done this week...

 

I went to the local Ram dealer, my preferred brand, and worked on pricing out the trucks with options I wanted and so forth.

The lowest price with fewest options "I could live with" was just about $67,000 after the current rebates and all, and the "truck I would want" was $10-12K more than that. Even after discussing trade/down payment options, I was still looking at between $550-750 a month.

 

Today, I got a call back from Gregg at RVHaulers.ca. I talked with Gregg for more than 20 minutes with my 2 year old little girl wanting my attention in the background, even with all the distractions I got pricing, talked options, trucks in his pipeline, and all. After talking to Gregg I really think I was bit by the HDT bug without ever getting near a HDT, lol.

 

If I can find a way to get one of Gregg's HDT's financed like our 5th wheel was, with a 15 year loan and I could write off the interest (due to it being a "second home", according to my accountant) I think even with the cost of a done HDT RV hauler we could get less of a payment then the cheapest new Ram 1 ton truck I priced out. Next step is researching financing options, so the search of the forums on that topic begins, lol.

 

John....Just "spit-balling-here".......but what would your accountant's calculations look like pertaining to retained-asset-value of the HDT compared to the 15 year-old Ram...........HDT values tend to level-off while a 15 year old Ram is often slightly above scrap-weight-value.......

 

Points to ponder......

 

Drive on........(HDT's tend to retain level.......values)

[rdickinson]

With the pickup, you could use that as a tow vehicle as well as a daily driver. Plus, DW could drive it. The PUT could pack kids around ad be easier for DW to get in and

 

out. RE the HDT, are you planning to use it as a daily driver or just a trailer puller. DW still may not be able to get in or out or be able to or want to drive it. Also if you

 

went the HDT route and got a Smart, where would the kids ride? Not in the Smart.

 

Roger

[GeorgiaHybrid]

If needed, you can always rent a vehicle. We have done that several times when the FL was too big for the area or we needed to haul passengers. Enterprise will even deliver and pickup...

[the sailor]

My, I did not know all these good things about my truck, I just know I would not trade my $30,000 HDT for two $70,000 one ton pickups. We love ours, have put about 40,000 miles on it in the last three years....Merry Christmas to all,,,,The Sailor

[phoenix2013]

John, in response to your question 'When is an HDT too much truck ?" When you want to put it in your garage, a drive through or other tight space, it can be too much truck, When you are filling the 250-300 gallon fuel tanks or replacing up to 10 tires, it can be too much truck. When you want to buy a brand new one. it can be too much truck. If you have to take it to a shop every time it it hiccups, it can be too much truck. When you are washing and waxing it, it can be too much truck. When you want to park it in your neighborhood and can't, it can be too much truck. When your backing skills are not honed, it can be too much truck. When you can't climb into or out of it, it can be too much truck. When your towed unit is small enough to be towed by a Smart Car, it can be too much truck......BUT when you want to travel in comfort and safety and carry a Smart Car on the back, it's not too much truck. When you are coming down a long,steep grade using only the Jake an/or engine brake, it's not too much truck. When you have superior visibility, it's not too much truck. When you get out of the cab after a full day of driving and you still can walk normally, it's not too much truck........AND, FINALLY....When you smile when you see it, as you are climbing into the cab and while you are driving it down the road and as you toot the air horn in response to the kids in the station wagon beside you, it is not too much truck. just my opinions and your mileage may vary. To each his own. Be safe, Charlie

 

X2 on Charlie's take, here's another take.

 

Any salesman who with a straight face puts in front of a buyer a "document" to sign, amounting to $67,000 for a glorified, gussied up pickup, ought to be incarcerated for grand larceny without possibility of parole.

Somebody mentioned "retained value", what retained value. Watch the depreciation of that $67,000 go down like and elevator cab with cables that just let go.

I looked at 36 foot Elkredges, the are claiming 11K weight and 2K pin weight. If you went through two clutches in quick succession they must be lying through their teeth and you do not have enough truck for what you are "really pulling"

OK, in 42 years of RVing I went through 4 pickups, 2 MDTs and 1 HDT.

The first pickup pulling 32' 8K fifth was a perfect combination.

 

Safe and just enough truck for the fifth.

Once I started pulling 13K and more with pickups the white knuckle braking routine was firmly established at every stop.

I actually pulled 22.5K fifth with one of these pickups.

 

The fear factor associated with stopping this pair was on par with discovering a rattlesnake in the cab that's not happy being driven around.

 

The MDTs eliminated the stopping fear factor.

 

But the ride in the MDT was on par with traversing Grand Canyon pathways on a rented and bony ass that the rental company put on a diet.

The speed that the MDT would pull that fifth uphill was like that of a male turtle that discovered that the female turtle might be "receptive" so he better get a "move on".

 

Now to HDT, I've experienced almost all of the givens that Charlie describes, including $5K "stopover" in Michigan (engine work), $2K "stopover" in Florida (front end), another $2K "stopover" in Kansas (more engine work) and scores of "lesser events". But there was a "strange occurrence" after the check was presented or my charge card was processed. The moment the key was turned and that big diesel came to life and the truck moved, THE SMILE WOULD RETURN INSTANTLY!