Commissary's being attacked again

[nana25k]

Theaters, bowling alleys etc were generally made available for troops on base. In years gone by they didn't have cars or much else in transportation. In our new era most have transportation and unless really in the boonys there is also bus transportation. They can go shopping and to entertainment wherever they want. If one checks closely there is very little activity at bowling alleys except leagues and most of that are local retired

MWRs don't offer a lot in discounts any more either

Maybe its time we walk away from this addiction to percieved benefits such as this. Empty out the Exchanges etc and put the money supporting them into sonething truly worthwhile

[jamtracy]

Theaters, bowling alleys etc were generally made available for troops on base. In years gone by they didn't have cars or much else in transportation. In our new era most have transportation and unless really in the boonys there is also bus transportation. They can go shopping and to entertainment wherever they want. If one checks closely there is very little activity at bowling alleys except leagues and most of that are local retired

MWRs don't offer a lot in discounts any more either

Maybe its time we walk away from this addiction to percieved benefits such as this. Empty out the Exchanges etc and put the money supporting them into sonething truly worthwhile

I agree with a lot of what you say. When I was in the Navy (82-02) every year standards changed and lower ranks were able to live off base rather than live on the ship in port or in the barracks. Lots of young sailors pulled their money and rented a house or an apartment. When I lived in Washington we had a house about 5 miles from the base so we used the commissary a lot because it was convenient and consistent on prices. Here in Norcal we live about 40 miles from Travis and rarely go to the base. When we do If I had to put a percentage on it I would say 50% of the patrons are retired. I'm just guessing. I will pay more attention while I'm there. I don't recall going to the movies on a base except in the 70s when I was a Navy Brat and we live right next to a Navy base that had a back gate by our neighborhood. That was pretty awesome. It was like living on base but not.

 

James

[marspec2003]

The Coast Guard has quite a few units that don't have access to commissaries. I was in seventh heaven when stationed at the CG Institute and could use the commissary at Tinker AFB. This was before super Wal Marts. I once visited a station where the nearest MacDonalds was at least 10 miles away. Now that's being out in the "boonies" especially when you're not on isolated duty. (Think LORAN.)

[Sehc]

15% below market sounds pretty good. The main complainers are the suppliers and manufactures?

[Darkhorse]

A lot of places could do with a cut back with no problems. We are 35 miles from town. We used to go to the movies quite often, we bowl a lot so we hope that stays open. I am on an Army post, we have ONE fast food restaurant which is Subway. Holloman AFB is down the road a ways but is much closer to their city and still have their theater, updated bowling alley, McDonalds, Taco Bell, Anthony's Pizza, Subway, Domino's, Popeyes, new Commissary plus a few eateries run by the base. All of their new housing has solar panels too. Guess I got off topic, but the boonie places really need these services but seem to be losing them the fastest.

[nana25k]

A lot of places could do with a cut back with no problems. We are 35 miles from town. We used to go to the movies quite often, we bowl a lot so we hope that stays open. I am on an Army post, we have ONE fast food restaurant which is Subway. Holloman AFB is down the road a ways but is much closer to their city and still have their theater, updated bowling alley, McDonalds, Taco Bell, Anthony's Pizza, Subway, Domino's, Popeyes, new Commissary plus a few eateries run by the base. All of their new housing has solar panels too. Guess I got off topic, but the boonie places really need these services but seem to be losing them the fastest.

So I'm confused. Are you active duty out n the boonies or are you retired and living there by choice??? If you are active I understand a little. However in the mid 70 we were stationed in the Mojave Desert at China Lake NWR. Our commissary was tiny and the exchange pretty miniscule. Mostly we shopped in the local grocery. And that was when we made squat

Commissaries etc really weren't available to use until in the 50s. Exchanges came into being then as well.

If you are there by choice then You chose these circumstance and probable knew this before you went

 

This reminds me that a brand new multi million dollar commissary was just built, in of all place, near the Pittsburgh,PA Air Force reserve base. One of their biggest reasons was that it was more than 50 miles to another one and the local retirees needed an option. Really???? I would no more drive the hour from our daughters house to that place to shop than I would shoot myself in the foot. This was a huge tax payer boondoggle and somebody's political payoff

[Darkhorse]

I am a DA civilian, I was military but did not retire. This is my choice and is not really about me. Things were different here when I made this choice and circumstances have changed since. I cannot just decide I want to go somewhere else and off I go nor can I look forward to being transferred in 2 or 4 years. This is more about the soldier however. This is isolated and young soldiers with or without families shouldn't have basic things taken away to create a hardship for them.

I was in the Army and the Air Force, the Army has never been much for taking care of the soldier.

[DJW]

Darkhorse

 

That is true but they sure do promote them faster than the Air Force does. The AF always had nicer facilities than the Army.

 

Dennis

[RV_]

I like the commissary here at Barksdale, as do many active duty and other retirees. It's not just about the kids. My letters to my representatives will tell them I'd like them to leave them as is. Those that disagree should do the same.

I am eligible to use the VA but choose not to since I earned a retirement that included VA service connected health care and Tricare. But just because I don't like the care levels, or treatment of vets at the VA, I won't take a position to say we need to unfund them.

 

I don't take the comments of the folks who have not earned veteran benefits seriously in a vet discussion. They remind me of the picketers who marched in front of our gates 1968-1974. In a free society we practice tolerance save the zealots of anything. And for those who did retire or get base privileges from combat or other disabilities, then say since they don't use it, and/or consider it expendable for others great . . . for you.

 

I'm no more interested in hearing the arguments for eliminating commissaries, as the opposition is in hearing my arguments of why they should stay the same.

 

Should anyone think some of this "cut the commissary" sentiment is a majority just go visit the service organization folks working for vets and active duty folks like AFSA (Air Force Sergeant's Association) online at http://www.hqafsa.org/ , The MOAA Military Officer's Association of America) http://www.moaa.org/ , American Legion, VFW etc. I think you'll find the service organizations position on this and other military budget issues are the voices of the service members, past and present.

 

I am against taking back what's already promised for retirement and active duty. I believe we can provide the best defense for America given the support required.

 

Slow erosion of benefits is dishonorable IMO. My word is my bond. If America wants to be able to field a viable force, no matter how automated the forces become, you still need people to run them.

 

Even if we disagree, I still offer a heartfelt, Huah!

[champ_49]

For me I don't see a lot of savings at the commissary's. But I haven't shopped at them enough to really say for sure. But the point is, there are active military that use it daily. That in itself is enough reason to keep them open. If not for anything more than just convenience itself!

 

On the other hand, it's also obvious that there is a cut in spending and that has to come from somewhere. So where is that somewhere that won't affect someone or everyone? It's going to be painful in someone's eyes no matter what. Just wish there was a better solution.

 

Dave

[champ_49]

Very well put Derek......as always well thought out!

 

Dave

[Cyberdave]

Derek, agree 100%. We shop at commissaries at every base we are close to. Why? Because they save you money and we like the quality. There are always sour grapes... I didn't like it so I drove all over town to use coupons.. ever factor in the fuel? wear and tear? The law dictates 5% over cost plus surcharge. You think a grocery chain survives long on that margin?

 

Dave, you are correct EVERYONE should feel the pain. The DoD is just the easiest to pick on and those big programs like the useless F-35 that can be out flown by an F-16 aren't going to be cut. So as usual, it'll fall on the troops.

 

I'll make the same proposal I have before. Let's share the pain. Tax 401's / investments / cut programs like federal aid and get serious abut cutting subsidies.

[DJW]

We shop at the commissaries every chance we get. We stop at Offutt AFB in Omaha, Nebraska when we go to visit my sisters a couple of times a year not just for the saving which I believe are substantial but because I like to drive through the front gate. It makes me feel like I am home. These are the folks that I stood shoulder to shoulder with for a good portion of my life and they are like family. We use the joint base Lewis/McChord and the Pearl Harbor/Hickham AFB commissaries when we are visiting my brother in Olympia, WA or spending the winter in HI on the boat. These are the young service members on the gates that still say "Have a Great Day Master Sergeant" to me this is priceless. Will it change my life or play havoc with my budget no, but it will give me one less reason to go home.

 

Dennis

[RV_]

Thanks guys, I agree Dave,

 

Dennis,

Exactly! My SH does all the shopping and we live ten minutes from the Base. So I don't go as often as her. But you nailed it. Being retired from Security Forces (old name was Security Police) I chat with the Airmen on gate guard duty. And you are exactly right, it is coming home. I strut just a bit on base, and get a kick out of recognizing the sharp Airmen with a quick kudo on how sharp they look. It really brings a whole new smile to their faces to get respect and friendship, even from an old gray haired ex Senior NCO. I was good at catching people doing something right, instead of trying to catch them doing something wrong. It made both our days, as I relived my role for a pleasant moment of camaraderie with one of the young heroes whose watch is now.

 

I feel I have an obligation to keep faith with those who came before, during, and after my watch. Even those who don't themselves.

[DJW]

Kirk

 

If you want to see what I was talking about in post 22, take a listen to the new State Department Spokesperson (John Kirby). He was the DOD spokesperson until he retired as a Rear Admiral Upper half (2 Star) from the Navy and went to work for the State Department. This guy is trying to sell the Iran Nuke Deal as a good deal now. We will not call him what he is but let us just say they have a word for the women of the night. There is no difference between Military Leadership and Political Leadership they all practice the oldest profession in the world.

 

Dennis

[Kirk W]

This guy is trying to sell the Iran Nuke Deal as a good deal now. We will not call him what he is but let us just say they have a word for the women of the night.

And that somehow has something to do with the commissary issue? Despite what a few of the frequent posters would have you believe, I have never stated that I favored any change to the commissary system, and neither am I anti military. I too am a veteran and all three of my sons are as well and one is a 24 year veteran. But I am also one who believes that if we continue to demand the government supply more and more to us without massive tax increases, our country will go the way of Grease an others like that. I don't have any answers as to what should be cut first, but if nothing changes there will be a crash and it could happen in our lifetime. Those who continue to demand more benefits and less taxes are part of the problem.

[DJW]

Kirk

 

Has nothing to do with the commissary closings. It has everything to do with your point that the political leadership never listens to the Military Leadership and my point was that there is no difference.

 

Dennis

[nana25k]

" always sour grapes... I didn't like it so I drove all over town to use coupons.. ever factor in the fuel? wear and tear? The law dictates 5% over cost plus surcharge. You think a grocery chain survives long on that margin?"

 

I have no sour grapes!!!I can tell you that as a working mother I had no time to drive out of my way onto base just to shop at the Commissary and stand in long lines waiting to check out. My time was my money. I had teens to ferry to activities, Navy families with issues to look after. We lived in VA Beach. I drove past 3 very good grocery stores on my way to and from work. 5% over on name brand canned tomatoes, that are frequently in my opinion, no better than store brand, are still no bargain. I wasted no fuel driving all over town. Please don't make statements of fact you know nothing about.

[Cyberdave]

" always sour grapes... I didn't like it so I drove all over town to use coupons.. ever factor in the fuel? wear and tear? The law dictates 5% over cost plus surcharge. You think a grocery chain survives long on that margin?"

 

I have no sour grapes!!!I can tell you that as a working mother I had no time to drive out of my way onto base just to shop at the Commissary and stand in long lines waiting to check out. My time was my money. I had teens to ferry to activities, Navy families with issues to look after. We lived in VA Beach. I drove past 3 very good grocery stores on my way to and from work. 5% over on name brand canned tomatoes, that are frequently in my opinion, no better than store brand, are still no bargain. I wasted no fuel driving all over town. Please don't make statements of fact you know nothing about.

 

Interesting, where did you see your name posted? Seems you made a statement without knowing my intent.

You act as if you have the corner on family experiences, hardships, sacrifices WE all made. I never accused you of being addicted to getting rid of them but YOU called those of us that want to protect the benefits that active duty and retirees have as being addicted to perceived benefits.

 

If you weren't close to a commissary and chose not to use it that's your choice and I would agree based on you're saying it was out of you're way...that makes sense. But, what does that have to with whether commissaries are good for the personnel living on base or near by?

 

Have you shopped in a commissary recently? Once? Twice? Five years ago? We've shopped many times at multiple commissaries and always save.

 

Bottom line is, several of us want them left alone and some don't. What makes those that do "addicted..."??

[nana25k]

"Interesting, where did you see your name posted? Seems you made a statement without knowing my intent."

 

Sorry, but since I was pretty much the only person who made comments about saving on the outside with creative shopping it did indeed seem pointed at me, sorry for jumping to conclusion

However: I have no corner on hardship. Just pointing out that I had better ways to spend my time and money.

 

In my opinion there are long term consequences to not rationally seeking the best way for our military budget to be spent so that there are great benefits for our future military. We can not, in my opinion keep seeking to protect "the things that were promised to us" when none of it was ever in a contract. Frankly I'd rather see the VA benefits for dental, eye care increased.

I go into the commissary several times a year and purchase a list of things that I then purchase on the economy. I spend more every single time I'm there. But as previously stated I don't have to have name brand items.

[Cyberdave]

"Interesting, where did you see your name posted? Seems you made a statement without knowing my intent."

 

Sorry, but since I was pretty much the only person who made comments about saving on the outside with creative shopping it did indeed seem pointed at me, sorry for jumping to conclusion

However: I have no corner on hardship. Just pointing out that I had better ways to spend my time and money.

 

In my opinion there are long term consequences to not rationally seeking the best way for our military budget to be spent so that there are great benefits for our future military. We can not, in my opinion keep seeking to protect "the things that were promised to us" when none of it was ever in a contract. Frankly I'd rather see the VA benefits for dental, eye care increased.

I go into the commissary several times a year and purchase a list of things that I then purchase on the economy. I spend more every single time I'm there. But as previously stated I don't have to have name brand items.

 

Linda, I totally agree with your post. What I would add is that the F-35 in it's current form can be beaten by F-16's. We've been done the primrose path before when DoD wanted to sell us on the Bradley.. Or, the Sgt York AA tank. I have direct experience in the DoD's inability to make the hard decisions. In 1985-1986 I was in charge of an evaluation program to select new Ground Power Support Equipment (GPSE). There were two competitors with totally different approaches. Both failed the vast majority of the tests.... But, the AF purchased some of each anyway. 187 Million dollars worth...

 

It's just easier to take on the troops. since they have very little input.

[Ray,IN]

I think it was the late 70's when DeCA decided they had to raise prices because civilian grocery stores around military installations complained about unfair advantage. Still haven't been able to swallow that_ now this.

[dsimpson]

We have had discussions on this forum before about whether commissaries should remain as a benefit for service members. The original intent was to provide a grocery store for isolated military bases and to provide low-cost groceries to compensate for the low pay. Back then, a lot of low-ranking service members didn’t even have a car. That has all changed. That poor E-2 that Cyberdave is using as an example, is now making over $42,000 a year (go to the Air Force Times web page and click on Pay Center.) That figure does not include the monetary value of retirement benefits and medical care. Can you imagine an organization that will hire a high school graduate with no marketable skills and, after less than one year, pay him/her $42,000 a year?

[remoandiris]

That poor E-2 that Cyberdave is using as an example, is now making over $42,000 a year (go to the Air Force Times web page and click on Pay Center.)

 

Either you input bad data or the AF Times site has bad data. Base pay for an E-2 is under $22K a year for 2016.

 

http://www.militaryrates.com/military-pay-charts-e1_e5_2016

[Cyberdave]

Doug,

 

Makes sense and is a popular concept and it was my thought but the history is much different than we thought.

 

From Defense.Gov

"Congress established sales stores “wherever needed,” with no restrictions on their geographical locations. The notion that commissaries were originally established for remote frontier posts is untrue; in fact, “remote” or “frontier” posts were actually the last places to have commissary sales stores. They were the very places where fully stocked commissaries could not be maintained due to distance, bad roads, hostile tribes and bad winter weather. Such forts were supplied by a combination of “issue” commissaries, “sales” commissaries and “post traders,” who were under Army contract and could not sell anything available at the commissaries. By 1895, when railroads were bringing supplies to most forts, sutlers were no longer needed."

Defense Commissary Agency Has 140-Year History, 231-Year Heritage