Cargo Carrying Capacity

[dgezy]

Hello All,

I have been looking at 2 different 40 foot Class A diesel motorhomes for possible purchase. One is a 2005 Monaco Windsor. 400 HP Cummins 4 slide. The other is a 2005 Newmar Dutch Star 370 HP 4 slide. On the surface they are similar but the CCC is very different. The owner of the Windsor has told me the CCC is 1350 LB. The Newmar brochure says it has 5000 lb CCC. After calculating out water, people the Dutch Star has a little over 3000 lb. Both of them are supposed to be after fuel is allowed for. My question is does anybody have a thought as to why such a difference?

Thank You

Dave

[skp51443]

1350 would carry the wife's stuff... Food and my stuff would have to be left behind. Nope!

 

They build what they can sell and as cheaply as they can build it, adding CCC costs money and won't make many sales as folks don't often think about it until they have overweight problems.

[TreyandSusan]

For used vehicles the only good way to know the CCC is to get it weighed and subtract that number from the GVWR. The previous owners may have added things like a solar panels, a larger battery bank, a residential refrigerator, different flooring or cabinetry, etc. Also, older vehicles and some new ones have precious little CCC. After 2008, new standards were set for manufacturers to give these ratings. Before 2008, there was much confusion.

So, the only real way to get a true picture of these older RVs is to take it to a scale and get'r weighed. A simple platform scale (CAT scale (truck stop), grain elevator, or scrap metal yard scale) could get you that number.

 

After 2008 CCC has been calculated by weighing the vehicle at the end of production. Motorized RV include all motor vehicle fluids and full propane. Water is not included. People are not included.

Before June 2008, full fresh water was included as well as 150 lbs x the number of safety belts (Sleep Capacity Weight Rating)

[Jimalberta]

If you go to the Class A forum you will see a thread and some comments on Monaco. I thnk I would stay with the Dutch Star....a very good choice.

[Kirk W]

We have not owned a Dutch Star but we have friends who now own their third one, friends who own their second one and several others who have owned only one Dutch Star. All of them are very strong supporters of the RV for living & traveling fulltime.

[Ray,IN]

I know this is not an answer to your question, but it is related. TreyandSusan touched on this change from CCC to OCCC. You may read more about the change from RVIA standarda to federal government standards here:http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,26115.0.html

TreyandSusan has the correct answer, the old CCC was not an absolute number. To reach that number requires actual weight of the RV + all fluids like LP, fuel, fresh water, etc. before CCC is known.

[WeBeFulltimers]

Are you sure about those numbers. Doesn't seem like much for either one. My mid-class Montana has a CCC of 3,480 lbs itself. Could NEVER make it with only 1,350!

[Bill Joyce]

My 40' 2004 Dutch Star has a CCC of 3900 lbs listed on the inside of a kitchen cabinet door. Last time we had it weighed, we still had 1800 lbs of carrying capacity with around 800 on the front axle to spare and 1000 on the rear. Newmar's numbers are fairly accurate.

[Dave O]

I am not sure what that Monaco owner was quoting, we have an 06 Monaco Windsor and according to the as built sticker the CCC is 5564.

 

I would recommend you check something in writing like a brochure or coach stickers on both to do an "Apples to Apples" comparison.

 

Both are good coaches, it appears to me that other factors that are important to you should also be seriously considered.

 

 

Dave O

 

[Barbaraok]

When we got our coach we had it weighed before we registered it - came in at 25,961 pounds and its GVWR is 31,000#, so 5000# of us and stuff could go in. Weighed it a couple of years ago, we were like Bill, about 700# left on the front axle and around 900# on the back axle.

 

And as those before have said, you really need to get it weighed before can make any determinations as to what capacity you have for your stuff. BTW - both made good coaches. If it were me, I'd go with the Dutch Star. Good coaches and good manufacturer.

 

Barb

[bruce t]

There are many variables involved so you need to be sure you are comparing apples with apple. 'Simple' items such as chassis, drive train, brakes, tires are all a part of the calculations.

Just comparing a 40ft DP with another 40ft DP is a pointless exercise without all the information.

All reputable manufacturers will calculate every RV as it comes off the production including all extras/options. Then and only then can you really get the true carrying capacity.

 

But it's more complicated than that even. Take two otherwise identical motorhomes. Add a tag to one and the carrying capacity will go up due to the extra wheels/tires. The problem is that those extra wheels and tires take cubic space away so in reality while giving extra carrying capacity you can't use it because there is less storage space!

 

So after all the above the sticker in the motorhome is what I would go by. That sticker should have been calculated at the time of construction. Get it weighed and do the math. Ignore the brochure as that will only be a generic figure based on an unknown set of options.

 

regards

[dgezy]

I am not sure what that Monaco owner was quoting, we have an 06 Monaco Windsor and according to the as built sticker the CCC is 5564.

 

I would recommend you check something in writing like a brochure or coach stickers on both to do an "Apples to Apples" comparison.

 

Both are good coaches, it appears to me that other factors that are important to you should also be seriously considered.

 

 

Dave O

 

Dave O

 

Could you tell me where the "as built" sticker is located in your unit. I am going to ask the owner of the unit I am considering to try to find it and quote it to

 

me. If I can verify a better CCC I would travel 1000 mi to see it. I actually like the features on this unit.

[bigjim]

Recently some I have seen have had it on the area to the drivers seat. Also today some can take a clear enough picture of the sticker and send it to you. If you look on craigslist, rvtrader, or the like you will occaisionally see it posted. Of course I would want to look at that first thing if I went to see it in person.

 

It is fairly aggravating that as in Barbara's example that you end up having to buy it before you are able to finally determine what the capabilities truly are.

[sandsys]

Recently some I have seen have had it on the area to the drivers seat. Also today some can take a clear enough picture of the sticker and send it to you. If you look on craigslist, rvtrader, or the like you will occaisionally see it posted. Of course I would want to look at that first thing if I went to see it in person.

 

It is fairly aggravating that as in Barbara's example that you end up having to buy it before you are able to finally determine what the capabilities truly are.

We made having it weighed a condition of buying. We wanted to KNOW it had enough capacity before we paid. We located a scale then the seller drove there with us on board before we signed the paper work. We paid the weighing fee--about $8 I think.

 

Linda Sand

[Barbaraok]

We knew what the approximate CCC was before we purchased as we had seen the sticker inside the kitchen cabinet, weighing was a requirement to get her registered in Tx. And she actually weighted less than the sticker said because she didn't have full fluids on board, which ended up being to our advantage..

[TreyandSusan]

Dave

For a pre June 2008, the RV weight information sticker could be anywhere. Usually in some cabinet. There was no standard location. After June 2008 the Weight or CCC Sticker is on the forward most passenger side door and often near the Federal compliance sticker, which on a Motor Home is near the drivers seat. The Weight sticker is either bright yellow or pink.

 

So to be clear there are two stickers

1. CCC or RV Weight Sticker - Cargo Carrying Capacity Calculation

2. Federal Compliance Sticker - Vehicle Standards like GVWR, GAWR(s), Original Tire information, etc. (Required on all vehicles)

 

But please know that on any vehicle before 2008 you cannot trust the Weight sticker. Modifications were and even manufacture upgrades were not required to be included in that calculation, so some are accurate and some are not. After 2008 all RVs are legally supposed to be weighed at the end of production.

 

On a used RV, getting a weight ticket before purchase is the only way to know. This is especially true for pre 2008 RVs but even so for RVs after 2008 because after the first sale of any RV no one is required to add a weight modification label. So, any modifications made after the first sale will not be included in that CCC on the weight sticker.

 

Weight modification stickers (or CCC weight reduction/modification sticker) are added by Dealers who add items before the first sale.

[Dave O]

Dave O

 

Could you tell me where the "as built" sticker is located in your unit. I am going to ask the owner of the unit I am considering to try to find it and quote it to

 

me. If I can verify a better CCC I would travel 1000 mi to see it. I actually like the features on this unit.

Hi Dave

 

In my 06 Windsor, PRT floor plan it is in the short closet above the washer/dryer across from the shower. I have also seen them in the cupboards in the bathroom and the cupboards or closets in the bedrooms. You can get a brochure about almost all Monaco coaches by year at

 

http://guaranteerv.com/explore-grv/brochure-library This will tell you the capacities and all the other "sales" data in most brochures, except (darn it) the CCC.

 

While I can't "guarantee" a specific CCC, I can assure you it is much better than that owner stated.

 

Phone 877 466 6226 will get you Monaco Tech Support and with the floor plan (like my PRT) in addition to model and year, they may be able to give you the CCC. If you can get the Monaco "coach number" it will help a lot.

 

If you are at the coach, call me at 469 964 6403 and I will walk you thru where to find the coach number.

You can also just call me with any questions about Monaco coaches anytime you need too.

 

Dave O

15+ years full timer Monaco owner

[Ray,IN]

2005 Monaco Windosr specs-near page bottom.

2005 Newmar - specs on page 17 of this pdf.

[Dave O]

2005 Monaco Windosr specs-near page bottom.

2005 Newmar - specs on page 17 of this pdf.

 

Hi Ray

 

Good site for Monaco information on features, but you will note they are quoting prices for "NEW" which are totally unrealistic today.

 

I couldn't find a date on the site or information, but the "NEW" prices were close when originally new on the coaches I looked at including mine.

 

Still no CCC data. It would be pretty hard to put it in a brochure since it would vary significantly by floor plan and factory installed options.

 

Dave O

[Ray,IN]

 

Hi Ray

 

Good site for Monaco information on features, but you will note they are quoting prices for "NEW" which are totally unrealistic today.

 

I couldn't find a date on the site or information, but the "NEW" prices were close when originally new on the coaches I looked at including mine.

 

Still no CCC data. It would be pretty hard to put it in a brochure since it would vary significantly by floor plan and factory installed options.

 

Dave O

Did you scroll down to page bottom as I said? Looks like that chart is for all 2005 Windsor models, which is the subject of this thread.

[Dave O]

Did you scroll down to page bottom as I said? Looks like that chart is for all 2005 Windsor models, which is the subject of this thread.

 

Hi Ray

 

I thought the title was CCC, which I am aware of and definitely understand especially for Monaco's.

 

However I have been unable to find an answer "in writing" for the OP's questions about them.

 

Dave O

[Ray,IN]

 

Hi Ray

 

I thought the title was CCC, which I am aware of and definitely understand especially for Monaco's.

 

However I have been unable to find an answer "in writing" for the OP's questions about them.

 

Dave O

Yes, you are right, the question was about the CCC for a 2005 monaco, and 2005 Newmar. I have found the sales brochure for 2005 Windsors, but it does not mention CCC. The CCC for a 2005 Diplomat is claimed to be 2,994.

[richfaa]

1350 Cc is not very much. The CC for our Mid Level Montana Big Sky 5th is 3099. Lots of good advise here as to how to find the actual CC.

[dgezy]

Hello all again,

I would like to thank everyone for the thoughtful answers. The owner of the Monaco is living in it for the winter and it is about 1500 miles away from me so getting an actual empty (Unloaded Vehicle Weight) is currently impossible. As Dave O has pointed out all weights seem to be published except Empty weight so calculating CCC at this time is impossible. So I am going to pass on this unit for now.

Again I would like to thank everybody for their help

 

Dave

[sandsys]

The owner of the Monaco is living in it for the winter and it is about 1500 miles away from me so getting an actual empty (Unloaded Vehicle Weight) is currently impossible.

Even a loaded weight could be helpful as it might tell you if the current owner has been overloading it. Lots of owners have no idea how much stuff weighs that they take with them. The theory that empty cupboards means they still have capacity is common.

 

Linda Sand