From The Economic Times

Kirk W · January 17, 2023

Davos organisers: Elon Musk wasn't invited despite what he says

DAVOS, Switzerland (AP) — The World Economic Forum says billionaire Elon Musk wasn’t on the guest list for the annual meeting of business executives, global leaders and cultural trend-setters in Davos, Switzerland — despite what the Twitter owner claims. Musk isn’t among the notables gathering in the ritzy Alpine town this week to talk about global issues, though he says he was invited. Forum spokesman Yann Zopf knocked that down Tuesday, saying the last time the Tesla CEO got an invitation was “not this year and not recently — last time in 2015.” Musk said in a tweet Dec. 22: “My reason for declining the Davos invitation” was because it sounded boring.

Chalkie · January 17, 2023

I'm curious Kirk, what has Elon Musk ever done to you that prompts you to search out anything and everything you can find that casts him in a negative light? Or at least need to post it here?

TXiceman · January 17, 2023

Chalkie, I wonder the same about RV and nothing but praises for Musk and Tesla.

Ken

RV_ · January 18, 2023

6 hours ago, TXiceman said:

Chalkie, I wonder the same about RV and nothing but praises for Musk and Tesla.

Ken

Ken,

I am a fan of Tesla and Space X. Notice how so many Musk haters went ape when I posted here about the debut of Starlink and they all complained that it was not mobile, not for RVs and they won't buy anything Musk. And now . . .

Now we see a lot of the same folks posting about Starlink's great service or complain that they can't get it fast enough.

I post about more than Tesla like EV Battery stories, EV Battery recycling, and the manufacturers and incentives. In Finances and investing there are lots of opportunities to invest in the EV companies and their suppliers and new tech.

I write about what I know and I made and am making another killing in Tesla stock. And I drive one.

I got very enthusiastic about EVs in the early 1990s while stationed in Europe for seven years and skiing all over the Alps in Germany, Austria, France and Italy.We made Zermatt Switzerland an annual trek because they have not allowed internal combustion engines there since 1978! I was bowled over from the acceleration and performance of their taxis and buses all 100% electric. I could not wait to see them for highway use in the US.

Sorry Ken but I will write facts/opinions about what I know and like.

So I answered your question.

Now tell me why you don't like my posting about Tesla and EV tech.

Regardless of feelings or beliefs we are transitioning to EVs worldwide and well past the tipping point. That's a fact.

And the Cybertruck among other models will be coming out of the Texas Gigafactory soon, right in your backyard.

Exciting times! 💯🖖

Edited January 18, 2023 by RV_

Chalkie · January 18, 2023

14 hours ago, RV_ said:

Regardless of feelings or beliefs we are transitioning to EVs worldwide and well past the tipping point. That's a fact.

And the Cybertruck among other models will be coming out of the Texas Gigafactory soon, right in your backyard.

Exciting times! 💯🖖

Yes, we are past what is considered a tipping point, however, if infrastructure does not catch up we will soon meet a wall. And this last winter has highlighted a glaring weakness in EVs that will need to be overcome as well.

As for the Cybertruck, I had rather hoped Tesla would take it to an early grave given other trucks coming on the market. You will never change my mind but I think it is perhaps the ugliest vehicle ever designed.

RV_ · January 18, 2023

3 hours ago, Chalkie said:

You will never change my mind but I think it is perhaps the ugliest vehicle ever designed.

Gary, what makes you think I would want to change your mind? I could care less what others think or do. I only correct erroneous facts.

One of them that the failure of the Texas grid had anything to do with energy use. Their gas production infrastructure failed in 2008, and again in 2011 with a lot of deaths, and then yet again in 2021. With a lot of deaths. I will message you with that rather than hijack Kirk's thread.

RV_ · January 18, 2023

You have your profile set not to receive messages. If you want that info email me.

Edited January 18, 2023 by RV_

Chalkie · January 20, 2023

On 1/18/2023 at 3:23 PM, RV_ said:

One of them that the failure of the Texas grid had anything to do with energy use. Their gas production infrastructure failed in 2008, and again in 2011 with a lot of deaths, and then yet again in 2021. With a lot of deaths. I will message you with that rather than hijack Kirk's thread.

I was talking less about winter grid failures and more overall year around grid capabilities as the need for increased electricity delivery becomes needed due to the increased number of EVs on the road. What I was referring to as far as winter goes was the inability of EVs to function in very cold weather as far as reductions in distance and charging (or lack thereof).

I have no idea what got changed in my profile but I believe I have it restored to what it should be.

TXiceman · January 20, 2023

RV, I am a retired mechanical engineer and worked some off to the side of the energy industry. The problem with pushing so many EVs onto the roads is that nationwide we do not have the infrastructure to support all the EV demand for recharging. We barely have the infrastructure to support the extreme summer and winter power demand now. We need to get the power grid up to handle the added capacity of the folks coming on from work, cranking up the A/C, turning on the tv, and other appliances to fix dinner and also recharge the EV so that they can go to work the next day.

Also, consider that most of the power generation in this country is from fossil fueled plants (coal or natural gas). We need to get more wind, solar, wave action, etc. power generation plants online to handle the demand and then start phasing out the fossil fuel plants.

EVs still have too many shortcomings for me to consider one. The travel range is too short and replacement battery cost is out of sight. Also, we need to address the total carbon footprint created by making the EV and the batteries, as well as battery recycling and disposal.

It appears that not enough foresight is being used in implementing the EV. Yes, we will need to go in that direction, but for the realistic near future, we are getting ahead of the energy curve and fossil fuel is still needed and will be here for a bit longer.

As far as I can predict the future, my next and first EV will most likely be an electric wheelchair.

Ken

docj · January 20, 2023

Putting aside all the issues relating to electrical infrastructure, etc., there are other significant infrastructure issues that need to be resolved before EV's become practical options for many people.

Example: My son is on the board of directors of a townhome community that is part of a very large planned community in the Raleigh NC area. In his townhome community parking areas are separated from residence front yards by concrete sidewalks. Any resident who would want to charge his EV by parking in his assigned parking space would have to run a power cable from the outer wall off his townhome, through his yard and across the sidewalk to his vehicle.

More than a year ago I challenged him to start thinking about how the community would accommodate homeowners who wanted to be able to charge their EVs. The problem I outlined is made even more complex because there is no 240V access in the area of the home adjoining the front yard. Therefore, 240V power would have to be brought around the entire row of townhomes from the distribution transformers behind the row of homes. This would be a non-trivial undertaking.

Recently he told me that Duke Power was going to install (at its cost) a small number of charging stations in "unassigned" parking spaces in the community. Paying for charging would be via credit card. I complimented him for getting things started in the right direction but he agreed that this would not be a solution if significant numbers of homeowners decided to purchase EVs.

I suggested to him that his townhome community should budget for a capital improvement fund to cover the cost of the major rewiring that would be required to provide a single charging station for every homeowner (each home has wo parking assigned parking spaces). I don't know if he will bring this up to his Board but it is definitely the sort of long term planning that lots of communities will need to do.

Kirk W · January 20, 2023

5 hours ago, docj said:

More than a year ago I challenged him to start thinking about how the community would accommodate homeowners who wanted to be able to charge their EVs.

We live in an "age in place" senior community that has independent living, assisted living, memory care, full care, and a rehabilitation hospital all on one campus. Not only is there no practical way to charge an EV on this campus, I checked 9 other similar senior communities in the Dallas area and none of them have such provisions, although 2 of them do have enclosed garages available for an additional cost but in both cases there is only 120V outlets available, one has 1 per garage the other has 2 and both of them have fewer than 1/3 as many garages as they have apartments. With the financial stress that Covid-19 caused to such communities, none of them are in a position to do much to change this in the immediate future.

Out of curiosity I checked with the apartment complexes in our area and none of them have any electricity available in the tenet parking areas. Bringing in an outside vendor to supply charging stations might be a partial solution for such facilities but most of them do not have space for such facilities. I did locate a new apartment complex some distance away that is not quite complete and in their brochures it does list parking with EV charging available for additional cost so some are starting to consider that. The one that I found is a luxury living complex and I doubt that we will see such facilities anytime soon in most rental properties.

sandsys · January 20, 2023

3 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

We live in an "age in place" senior community that has independent living, assisted living, memory care, full care, and a rehabilitation hospital all on one campus. Not only is there no practical way to charge an EV on this campus, I checked 9 other similar senior communities in the Dallas area and none of them have such provisions

We live in a similar community with underground parking for one vehicle per independent living apartment. There are several EVs here with outlets having been installed in their parking spaces. We also have two small EV shuttle buses that charge through standard outlets. I do not know if those with private outlets had to pay for them. They are in the planning stages of a new wing that will house one floor of memory care and assisted living with three floors of independent apartments.They are planning to install chargers in that wing. The various components are all under one roof so you could park in a different wing than the one you live in to have access to chargers if they allow that. (Parking spots are assigned.) We will be watching to see how this turns out.

Linda

RV_ · January 21, 2023

adb926e9ae83852d4efc347a4fbed18d.webp?re Guys, it will be a loooong time before we have to worry about an EV in every parking space.

We have time.

If we are going to talk about the grid we need to specify because the Texas grid is private and not subject to the expense of safety rules to harden gas valves etc.

We did not have gas stations all over when the first gas cars were being produced. How'd they solve that? Hmmmmmm

LBJ got West Texas electrified from no power when he was a young representative. How'd they do that?

We strung lines across the country from scratch for telephones - how'd we do that?

We put up towers for mobile phones from nothing - how'd we do that?

we put up satellites for Internet worldwide from zip, how'd we do that?

Let me reassure you that we already knew we needed to upgrade infrastructure, I bet we do that!

Yes folks who want their own charger for their EV like me have to spend a couple thousand to upgrade their house to 200 amp service from 100 in my case, which cost nothing as the transformer can handle it, and upgrade ground wires and the power panel to handle it. For the 50 amp copper wiring to the NEMA 14-50 50 amp outlet parts and labor, the box and circuit breakers as needed cost me an additional $2k including labor by a licensed electrician. I did not pop for the Tesla Wall charger which would charge my Y at 42 miles per hour of charging with 60 Amp breaker. Using my mobile charger I charge at the slightly slower 36 miles per hour of charging on a regular outlet and 50 amp breaker.

As Linda mentions folks do install chargers in assigned parking spaces all the time like we do RV outlets.

But lastly some of the information given is not accurate as far as crashing the grid etc.

I have posted articles with those facts but any of you can google will EVs crash the grid and don't read right wing or left wing read the folks working on it.

Lots of you are in Texas and I hope you guys make it through the rest of the winter without another big freeze because by all accounts I have read ERCOT has not forced the gas companies to harden their production facilities yet.

The engineers understand how grids are managed and when as generator goes down because the fossil fuel valves are frozen it has to shut down before it is damaged. It takes 5-10 minutes to bring up[ backup generators but if their fuel supply is cut off well that is what happened. As generation plants had to shut down because the gas stopped it increased the load on other plants and the tragedy of Feb 2021 happened.

So if folks won't read anything but Oil company propaganda or my posts here but try to argue them sorry, I'm not your Huckleberry. That said with a kind smile because my life is great and stress free. My Tesla runs great and has for the last 2.5 years.

But for those interested here are some non-Partisan sources. If you don't like them oh well.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths

https://solarchargeddriving.com/2019/12/09/7-fun-facts-about-electric-vehicles/#:~:text=1 1. EVs are more efficient EVs convert,... 4 4. EV maintenance costs are lower

https://www.ev-magazine.com/10-ev-myths-busted-by-experts/

https://energy.drax.com/insights/electric-vehicle-myths/

https://us1-photo.nextdoor.com/post_photos/ad/b9/adb926e9ae83852d4efc347a4fbed18d.webp?request_version=v2&output_type=jpeg&sizing=linear&x_size=6&resize_type=resize

Safe charging!

Edited January 21, 2023 by RV_

docj · January 21, 2023

2 hours ago, RV_ said:

As Linda mentions folks do install chargers in assigned parking spaces all the time like we do RV outlets.

In my most, I made it clear that in the particular case I was using as an example, installing a charging outlet in a person's reserved spot would be a non-trivial problem. Saying that "lots of people install them in their own spaces:" is a "whataboutism" that attempts to avoid dealing with an actual problem.

Failing to acknowledge real infrastructure issues doesn't make them go away. Every new technology creates its own adoption issues; they need to be dealt with.

Kirk W · January 21, 2023

2 hours ago, RV_ said:

We did not have gas stations all over when the first gas cars were being produced. How'd they solve that?

So true and unless something radical happens we will continue to see more and more EVs, especially in our cities. It will take much longer for the rural areas but change is coming. I suspect that it will come more quickly than most believe, but that one is just opinion. I can't help thinking back to the stories told to me by my dad's cousin who was born in 1879 that lived until 1981. He saw the move from horsepower to petroleum power and men walking on the moon. Makes me wonder what I'll see in the next 20 years if I live that long. 😲

Edited January 21, 2023 by Kirk W