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Perhaps "odd" application of an RV/Camper - Splittable trailer? Discussion


FlyFishn
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I'm taking a wild swing, perhaps a swing and a miss, that the "travel trailer" area might be a good start to this one. So we'll see how this goes and where it ends up!

We're looking at a way to combine comfortable living quarters with a smaller, able-to-be-separated equipment trailer.

Ultimately what I need is a "trailer" that does both purposes that rolls down the road as "one" trailer. This way we can get away from pulling 2 trailers.

Ironically, I do have a Class A CDL with doubles/triples endorsement. License isn't the issue on pulling doubles - its equipment and state regulations. I won't be in states that allow 2 trailers behind a pickup truck.

So that is about it for the "regulatory" background for where the idea stems from.

The application for what I am after is a way to travel with the one combination trailer for "living quarters" and "equipment". I need to be able to travel across the country, park the "living quarters" at a "home base", then tote the "equipment trailer" around separately.

If I could combine purposes and haul the whole kit and kabootle then a "toy hauler" would work. However, this will not work for 2 reasons:

1. Hook ups. I don't want to have to connect/disconnect hook ups (what ever they are, what ever form they are) every time I leave and come back to home base.

2. Length. I am very apprehensive of even having a "short" equipment trailer. I've run in to several scenarios where I need to back up closed roads and turning around in those scenarios, with any trailer, is a PITA. Having a long toy hauler to try to maneuver in those conditions is a no-go.

Most of the time I'll probably need the truck as a sole truck (no trailer) because of #2 above - easier to maneuver the bare truck. However, the "equipment trailer" will allow me to organize gear where in the truck (Leer 180 cap with windows - enclosed) doesn't have the space to get everything in and "organize it" to where things are easy to access - the trailer would give the space to do that. But if I can't take the "equipment trailer" at least having it at home base where things are organized will be a lot better than unorganized gear piled in the truck.

One thought I have is to get a long flatbed trailer and park a suitable travel trailer on it and have a smaller box trailer on the back. However, that would get me 2 registrations - one for the flatbed and one for the box trailer. The travel trailer wouldn't even need axles (trimming as much weight as I can) - just have it on stands to drive out from under it, or leave it on the flatbed, and run around with the smaller trailer. The drawback to this is height and weight. A suitable flatbed would be a long heavy trailer and the deck height would be wasted height.

If I had a sectional trailer frame and the "living quarters" portion was built up on said frame then the depth of the frame rails is usable depth for things like plumbing and tanks. When putting everything on top of an existing deck everything under and including the deck height is all wasted space.

On edit - a point I do want to make is I am very aware of weights, balance, and axle positions. In a "split-able design" part of that would be movable axles to be able to shift axle/tongue weights. Obviously, if you take 70% of the trailer off and are left with 30% (or what ever the numbers end up being) the axle position for the 100% won't work for the 30%. Another thought is to go to a 5th platform - that would help with tongue/pin weight, but would make using the bed as-is very difficult - that is a down-the-road decision/bridge-to-cross. If I could go 5th and cart the truck's cap on the combination trailer somehow then converting the truck adding the cap isn't entirely out of the question, but would be more equipment and thought to set things up to be able to do that efficiently out away.

An idea she came up with was a separate RV. On the surface it is an idea, but both of us don't like it because the travel time should be together time and to do that we need to ride together.

What ever road we end up down, I'm thinking a starting point would be a travel trailer for living quarters for now - getting our own portable comfortable place (well - comfortable for her - if she's not happy no one's happy). Then at least we're a leg up on that end of it, with my truck still as the gear hauler (and we could have more, however small, but at least more space in the RV - stocked kitchen, propane appliances, generator power + accessories that aren't in the truck).

The 5 requirements we have for the RV/living quarters are:

1. Full size queen bed

2. Roomy shower + bathroom (not a combination bathroom with a toilet in the "shower stall" and shower drain in the middle of the floor - a split shower/bathroom that is comfortable)

3. Functional kitchen - not super tight and compact. We don't want/need an entertainment/living area - just a place to sit and eat and would rather have the space allocation to entertainment/living be redistributed to the bathroom and kitchen space.

4. No slides. I don't want to deal with the mechanics of them (can be problematic) and I don't want the joints that are problematic for insulating and sealing. Uses will span summer heat to cold winters.

5. Length - 30ft or under for RV. I am trying to get the combination numbers to work out under 65ft. I want 14ft usable for the proposed "equipment" portion (but that is usable, not total which would include framing/hitch - and I don't have any drawings that numerically describe that yet, so I am not sure what the extra space requirement would be). The truck is about 22ft (f350 cclb). That leaves 36ft for the RV portion, framing, hitches - if set up as a bumper pull. So if I allocate a conservative 6ft to play with on framing/hitches that leaves 30ft for the RV portion - I think that is pretty reasonable, if not shorter.

And again - the starting point is just the RV, but I need to lay out the numbers to think ahead as there is more to the overall idea down the road. If I don't have "down the road" in mind now I can easily shoot myself in the foot. If what ever supposed "starting point" ends up not working as a base to make the combination out of later, I can cross that bridge then. Right now I'm not there and if I don't set the numbers ahead of time as if it will work then I will start on the wrong foot in not making things work from the start - not what I want to do.

I am not sure if even the above 5 are attainable - namely the lack of slides because that typically means things automatically get more compact (think Airstream, though quality they are pretty tight).

Are there any RV's that come to mind that you think come close to checking most of the above boxes?

Another idea is to start with an older unit and remodel it. However, depending on the extent of remodeling I would be tempted to build one from the ground up instead - then instead of trying to make something existing "work" I could have free range of all the design/build parameters. That would be a lot of time and work, though - hence trying to find something as a starting point that would work as-is.

 

Other than "You're nuts" or "You're crazy" (I do tend to be "outside the box" on a lot of ideas) - does anyone have any thoughts that might help me in working through ideas etc?

 

One large stumbling block I am finding is the RV industry caters to "what sells" and that means designing for the market en mass, unless you go full custom which is extraordinarily expensive and takes a long time. What I am after is more of a specialty. So how can I find existing "starting point" units that might be less "specialty" but suit our purposes?

 

Edited by FlyFishn
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Here is an idea sketch I've been working on - no where near complete, just something to give some visualization.

The original dimension I started with was 35ft combined length, 8.5ft wide, and 12.5ft total height (ground to top of roof).

Edit - allowing 5ft of hitch equipment/framing and 43ft available for the space behind the truck (bumper pull style) that allows 43-5 = 39ft. So based off those numbers I can add 4ft to the below "living quarters" section (hard to read on the scale of the drawing, but I allocated 3ft for the back-weep angle of the V nose and 18ft for the bulk of the living quarters length - so with 4 more feet that is 22ft, or with the point included that is 25ft).

If I built something from the ground up so I could utilize the space around and between the frame (plumbing, tanks, what have you) - the rear "equipment" section is what would get the axles once the "living quarters" section is parked.

For some quick idea numbers - transitioning that idea to my "down the road" idea utilizing an existing travel trailer - have a flatbed that is long enough to park the travel trailer and an equipment trailer on it. Using the 65ft combined length - 22ft for truck that leaves 43ft. Balance and mechanically speaking - it would be easier to get the weight distribution percentages to OK numbers with a bed-mounted hitch (IE 5th wheel) - those numbers being roughly ~10% bumper pull/ ~20% 5th. With an estimated 3k available on the rear axle that's 15k gross @20% with a 5th. If I had the same gross on a bumper pull platform that would be 1500lb tongue weight @10%. Though, hitch is a class V and I believe 1700lb tongue/17k gross. That tongue weight is well under the axle rating.

I am not sure if the scale of the image is going to come thru, but maybe at least the dark lines are visually descriptive enough.

2039682340_20220124_124914edited(2)small.jpg.095bbf20304696f38c07d4ce65c2221a.jpg

 

Edited by FlyFishn
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If a truck camper could be large enough, I have seen one mounted on the front of a flat bed trailer that they removed when camped to allow use of the truck and trailer without moving the camper. Of course, I have never seen a truck camper that was even close to 30' long so it may not be in the realm of possible for you. The only way that I can think of to get a trailer that would come apart to live in part and use the other part would be to build it yourself. I'm not engineer, but it would seem to me that it would take a lot of engineering to make something that would come apart and still be safe to tow. Perhaps if it had a hitch on each end and came apart in the center?

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1 hour ago, Dutch_12078 said:

How about just buying a box truck with enough space for your gear and just tow a conventional trailer for your living quarters...

Truck needs to be maneuverable and able to go off-road. Thinking of the suggestion - a box truck like a smaller u-haul is what comes to mind. I don't particularly want to do cross-country trips in a regular cab box truck. That also limits our people capacity. With the crew cab truck and proper set up (IE - can get the back seat clear instead of being cluttered with gear/trip stuff) we can get 5 people in there if need-be.

Another vehicle also brings in to another registration and another round of insurance.

The upside of the box truck idea is in normal conditions (if you can call it that?) - meaning regular streets - it would be more maneuverable than my truck and supposed "equipment trailer". At that point - that gets back to what I said about taking the truck by itself from home base if maneuverability is a concern - I would have the gear able to be stored at home base then load up what I need for what ever tasks. In that scenario - everything is still "there" accessible in the trailer, and not across the country back home.

Last trip I was out I thought we were doing clean up and tree work and ended up doing construction for almost half the trip, for example. Those are two different categories of tasks that had I not had tools for all I would have not been prepared = need it all along all the time if for no other reason than "just in case". And that's exactly why I need space and organized stuff - so I am not digging under what I thought I would most likely need to get to the stuff I buried not thinking I would likely use it.

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8 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

If a truck camper could be large enough, I have seen one mounted on the front of a flat bed trailer that they removed when camped to allow use of the truck and trailer without moving the camper. Of course, I have never seen a truck camper that was even close to 30' long so it may not be in the realm of possible for you. The only way that I can think of to get a trailer that would come apart to live in part and use the other part would be to build it yourself. I'm not engineer, but it would seem to me that it would take a lot of engineering to make something that would come apart and still be safe to tow. Perhaps if it had a hitch on each end and came apart in the center?

Thanks for the thoughts.

We did think about truck campers. I didn't take the thought very far for exactly what you hit on - the length which gets right to the heart of the "living space" question.

Although, your idea of the "truck camper on the front of a gooseneck trailer" is intriguing. That is a good visualization for what I was thinking with a conventional travel trailer if we went that route - that and the flatbed trailer. The idea would be to have it sit on stands just like your truck camper idea, just bigger.

I've done a fair amount of fabrication (I have a few welders, band saw, drill press, and numerous power hand tools - grinders, saws, etc) so the idea of fabricating a large trailer frame doesn't bother me - its entirely in the realm of possibilities. However, the catch is the ability to register a home made trailer. I imagine it is possible. People build their own cars and airplanes so I don't see why making a trailer would be any less able to register/license.

Several years ago I made a sectional trailer dolly (variable lengths out to around 20 feet) for shallow water trailer launching boats - the idea was so I didn't have to drive my truck in the lake to get trailers far enough to float boats in shallow waters. Yea it was a lot of work to make, but the end result works awesome. That isn't a trailer to go down the road, though, so I don't have to worry about registration and licensing on it.

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6 minutes ago, FlyFishn said:

However, the catch is the ability to register a home made trailer.

You can. I know someone who has done it. A homemade trailer won't have an MCO, so you might want to get a title for it. Although titles are required only for homemade trailers that weigh over 4,000 pounds gross, it's not a bad idea to get one regardless of your trailer's weight. Texas trailer laws require that you fill out forms VTR-141 and 130-U. Both forms are downloadable from the Texas DMV website. I

Texas DMV, Trailers

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40 minutes ago, FlyFishn said:

Truck needs to be maneuverable and able to go off-road. Thinking of the suggestion - a box truck like a smaller u-haul is what comes to mind. I don't particularly want to do cross-country trips in a regular cab box truck. That also limits our people capacity. With the crew cab truck and proper set up (IE - can get the back seat clear instead of being cluttered with gear/trip stuff) we can get 5 people in there if need-be.

Another vehicle also brings in to another registration and another round of insurance.

The upside of the box truck idea is in normal conditions (if you can call it that?) - meaning regular streets - it would be more maneuverable than my truck and supposed "equipment trailer". At that point - that gets back to what I said about taking the truck by itself from home base if maneuverability is a concern - I would have the gear able to be stored at home base then load up what I need for what ever tasks. In that scenario - everything is still "there" accessible in the trailer, and not across the country back home.

Last trip I was out I thought we were doing clean up and tree work and ended up doing construction for almost half the trip, for example. Those are two different categories of tasks that had I not had tools for all I would have not been prepared = need it all along all the time if for no other reason than "just in case". And that's exactly why I need space and organized stuff - so I am not digging under what I thought I would most likely need to get to the stuff I buried not thinking I would likely use it.

Search on "4X4 box trucks". There's a wide variety of them available with a wide variety of capacities. Your trailer concept strikes me as an engineering nightmare to build in a highway safe manner.

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I once saw an interesting rig in an RV park in Texas a few years ago.  It was home built living quarters on what looked like a car hauler trailer.  The living quarters used about 2/3 of the front and the back 1/3 was used as a patio area.  If you found a longer carhauler type of trailer you could build on the front and winch your utility trailer on the back portion. I am wondering how much work it would be to detatch and re-attach two separate trailers.

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32 minutes ago, Lou Schneider said:

You're OK with the mechanical complexity of assembling/disassembling a two unit trailer every time you move but you're against sliding a box in and out of a larger box to expand the living area?  Doesn't make sense.

You're only hitting on one aspect of what I said. You are missing the point about keeping the slide out joints insulated.

9 hours ago, FlyFishn said:

4. No slides. I don't want to deal with the mechanics of them (can be problematic) and I don't want the joints that are problematic for insulating and sealing. Uses will span summer heat to cold winters.

On the points of the insulation - I was looking in to 5th wheels a few years ago and found a lot of the slide outs I inspected if you pulled up the carpet "flap" you could see daylight through the joint, in some cases you could clearly see the asphalt underneath the trailers.

In the heat of the summer and the biting cold of the winter (more so cold) -  that gap in the sealing of the components would be a large energy loss. The idea is to keep things "tight" so as to be able to more easily keep the temperature under control inside.

The other aspect of winter use is how to insulate the underside/basement/utilities. I'll cross that bridge when I get there, but I did study that quite a bit when I was looking in to 5th wheels - best idea is to block in the underside of the trailer (seal it against the ground) with skirting, hay bales, or the like. That would be a rare use-case so I'm not overly concerned with thinking through the logistics there, but is something I am aware of.

Speaking of cold weather - I know there are some winter packages you can get on some models that tend to increase the ability of the plumbing, specifically, to withstand "cold weather" (around freezing/slightly below, I don't know that there are any non-custom manufactured "RV's" that are capable, even with cold weather packages, to get down much below about 25deg for long - and I don't consider that "cold").

We had the water line to a shower trailer freeze with temps in the upper 20's one night, so that is a real concern - and if it gets that cold, or colder, there would have to be some other considerations - IE - disconnecting water supply and going to stored water inside (sponge bath instead of a shower).

As to the complexity of disassembling/assembling trailer sections - the supposed trailer sections are external to the enclosed environment of the living quarters. If a slide-out gets stuck out and you risk damage to the trailer sides and mechanisms getting things back in place so you can go down the road that is what I am talking about.

An example of one aspect of the modularity of my design - look at the sliding tandems on a box semi trailer. If you didn't know already - the vast majority of box semi trailers have "sliding tandems". The reason for this is exactly the same reason of what I was getting at with my initial design (in the drawing) - and what I got the idea from. You "slide" the axle position fore/aft to change the weight balance of the trailer. In the commercial world (and non-commercial, but non-commercial you don't hit weigh stations and chances are you aren't going to get a road-side porta-scale stop, but possible) you have axle weights and something called the "bridge law" to adhere to. With a box trailer you have some leeway to shift the weight between the truck tandems (drives) and the trailer tandems by moving the trailer tandems fore/aft. The catch to it is there are some states (I believe California is one of them) that have a DOT reg that says the wheelbase between the truck axles and trailer axles can't be longer than a certain number. On the trailers at the company I drove for we had marks on the trailers that were specific to those states - if we were routed through we would have to keep the axles ahead of the marks to stay legal. That was a two-fold problem - both the wheel base legality and the weight legality. So if the trailer wasn't able to be balanced for legal axles under the wheel base restriction then the trailer had to go back to the shipper to get the contents reloaded, or some removed, so both the weight and the wheel base were legal. I ran mostly spread axle flatbeds and curtainsides (10ft spread). Those were allowed 40k on the spread axles and 34k on the truck, whereas a traditional tandem trailer axle (box trailer) was 34k - 6k more on the spread axles. The easy weight balance was to load about 18" behind center - that would keep more weight on the spread axles and less on the truck. That way I always was OK on balance, but if I was much over 80k I'd have to get some weight removed from the shipper to be legal. I got in to arguments with some shippers starting the bracing behind where they were used to - but the reason was the weight distribution and I had way more room on the back than the truck so thats how I did it and never had a problem.

Another example of trailers that "come apart" - look at RGN's - Removable Goosenecks. These are the low boy trailers that you see hauling machines like large excavators, combines, tractors. The gooseneck portion of the trailer literally disconnects. There are hydraulics that drop the front of the trailer to the ground and allow the gooseneck hitch (semi truck here - so king pin, not a ball) to remove entirely leaving the trailer deck and a couple stubby ramps on the ground to load the equipment.

A couple other examples of some types of sliding, disconnecting, and segmented trailers - look at those used to haul telephone poles, some container dollies, windmill blade haulers, and concrete bridge girder dollies.

The point is - there are tons of trailers out there that have sliding and removable parts and go down the road every day.

The boat trailer we have at the lake is telescoping - it came with our 18ft boat but was a bit too short. I made it adjust to fit both it and our 16ft. Its rigid and handles great on the road. I've only used it long with the 18ft to go much distance. Generally speaking, the boats are pretty light comparatively though.

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1 hour ago, orca said:

I once saw an interesting rig in an RV park in Texas a few years ago.  It was home built living quarters on what looked like a car hauler trailer.  The living quarters used about 2/3 of the front and the back 1/3 was used as a patio area.  If you found a longer carhauler type of trailer you could build on the front and winch your utility trailer on the back portion. I am wondering how much work it would be to detatch and re-attach two separate trailers.

I was looking online on some used listings a couple weeks ago and saw something like this - only it was all enclosed. The front 15-20' or so was built in to living quarters with a complete bathroom and bed - it was all in one "room" though. It gave me some ideas. For a "weekend race trailer" it might be one thing, but I suspect the better half would be a lot more comfortable in a nicer laid out/appointed set up.

I have winches and use one of them all the time - its a life saver and a back saver. That is how I get non-self-propelled wheeled equipment in and out of the truck and hoist heavier stuff (I do have a lift that uses the same winch for the fiberglass cap on the truck, but I have not used it in about 4-5 years now). Wireless remote control is a blessing, also. I've had the brushes in the small winch lodge sideways before, but after opening the motor up and figuring out how the brushes track I know what to do if I need to do it in the field. Other than burning out the motor windings or shearing gears I don't think there is anything I can't field repair with it. I'm not worried on the brushes wearing down for a few more years.

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Have a look at Freedom Haulers.....

https://www.freedomhauler.com/

They attach to your RV (trailer or MH) at two points and are considered part of the RV and can be equipped with a tow bar to use as a conventional trailer.  You would have to build a box for it but they come in lengths up to 12 feet.  Supposedly legal in all lower 48.

Lenp

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15 hours ago, lenp said:

Have a look at Freedom Haulers.....

https://www.freedomhauler.com/

They attach to your RV (trailer or MH) at two points and are considered part of the RV and can be equipped with a tow bar to use as a conventional trailer.  You would have to build a box for it but they come in lengths up to 12 feet.  Supposedly legal in all lower 48.

Lenp

Be careful you don't move the trailer's center of gravity behind it's axle.  There are several demonstrations on YouTube that show what happens if you don't have sufficient hitch weight.  The amplifying sway isn't caused by the lack of hitch weight per se - it's if you have positive hitch weight the trailer's COG is ahead of it's axle.  Moving the COG behind the axle causes the amplifying sway.

Even if the Freedom Hauler is supporting the weight on pivoting wheels, it's still adding inertia behind the axle.   Maybe it's not enough to become critical on a large motorhome or a 5th wheel that has significant hitch weight, but it can if you mount a workshop full of heavy tools on one at the tail end of a trailer.

Edited by Lou Schneider
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11 hours ago, lenp said:

Have a look at Freedom Haulers.....

https://www.freedomhauler.com/

They attach to your RV (trailer or MH) at two points and are considered part of the RV and can be equipped with a tow bar to use as a conventional trailer.  You would have to build a box for it but they come in lengths up to 12 feet.  Supposedly legal in all lower 48.

Lenp

Thanks for the idea.

If the rear trailer/freedom hauler in the below linked picture was a box trailer that would be the exact scenario that would solve my issue - box trailer behind RV. But that looks too close to me like "double towing" and regardless of registration and insurance allowing it (if they do) I can see it being a red flag and highway patrol/DOT enforcement magnet if for nothing more than curiosity, at most inspection and hassle.

https://www.freedomhauler.com/photo-gallery-1?lightbox=dataItem-k6z9qla610

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To go along with the previous post of mine - regarding the freedom hauler behind the travel trailer -

When I was researching 5th wheels back a few years ago one thing I was considering was a trailer hitch on the 5th wheel that was capable for towing trailers. What I found was VERY FEW 5th wheels have receiver hitches that are rated for towing, and at that they are very low weight - like 2-3k. There are a lot of 5th wheels that have receiver hitches on them, however you will find that the vast majority of them are only rated for accessory use (bike rack) - they are not rated for towing a trailer of any kind.

Jayco has several models I looked at that had such said light towing rated hitches. It was explained to me then that the reason they don't rate the receivers on most 5th wheels for "towing" is because you run out of legal length real fast. That made sense when the guy explained it because when I looked in to it - only the shorter model 5th wheels had such towing rated hitches (like low 30ft range). Once you got over a certain size you did not find towing rated hitches.

Just to inspect further I did look at the framing of the receivers when I was looking at some at a dealership and there was no difference between a towing rated hitch and an accessory-only rated hitch on comparable models. Obviously if you cross manufacturers (read that as manufacturing facilities - if you take the slew of manufacturers in Elkhart, IN for example - a bazillion "brands" all come out of the same factory and use the same Lippert frames so they likely share a lot of hard materials like hitches between said brands) then they likely have their own parts, unless they are purchasing, say, universal Lippert frames and building their own RV on a "standard" base.

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2 hours ago, DPelletier said:

Sounds like this would work; 10399900_102142733130091_5353319_n.jpg?_

See earlier discussion:

On 1/24/2022 at 6:19 PM, FlyFishn said:
On 1/24/2022 at 6:02 PM, Kirk W said:

If a truck camper could be large enough, I have seen one mounted on the front of a flat bed trailer that they removed when camped to allow use of the truck and trailer without moving the camper. Of course, I have never seen a truck camper that was even close to 30' long so it may not be in the realm of possible for you.

Thanks for the thoughts.

We did think about truck campers. I didn't take the thought very far for exactly what you hit on - the length which gets right to the heart of the "living space" question.

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

Just saw this thread. There are some interesting thoughts here, some of which apply to us. We, too, do some construction work, and more than once I've been at the job site when something was needed. Yes, I have that tool - back at the campground. That's one of the reasons why we're looking at switching from a MH and towed to a truck and trailer.

One couple we worked with does disaster relief work. They have a very nice (and expensive) 5'er with matching semi for towing. The semi is rigged with all of his tools, a generator, etc. Another couple does similar work, also with a 5'er, and a semi stacked with tool boxes.

We don't have nearly that many tools, nor the money or inclination to have them, but your situation may be closer to theirs than ours.

My suggestion is that you seriously look at having the tools in the truck, and let the trailer be just living quarters.

Good luck finding a no-slide trailer that isn't an Airstream. Even they made a few with a slide.

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