FlyFishn

As to the rust not bothering you as much as the weld - in this specific case I don't agree, just me though. You state that every weld on the frame is going to be of the same questionable quality - I also disagree with that statement. Though I didn't get pictures of every weld I saw, those up front on the V going to the hitch were good from what I could tell. Therein lies the importance of inspecting - and not being able to see the welds inside the enclosed underbelly is what bothers me. There isn't a way to get in there and see those welds without opening up the underbelly. Lets say we go down the road of finding a unit and purchasing said unit - would a dealer let us open up the underbelly (them open it up) to do such an inspection as a condition of purchasing? Not sure on that one.

Another thought - I didn't even think about this until looking back over the pictures. The spring hangers might be questionable also - thickness and attachment to the frame. Again, since I can't see the frame up under all the enclosures there is no way to inspect. But it is at least another area of concern that begs to be looked over. On the flip side of the coin, just as the leveling jack framing is suspicious, those components can be easily fixed should they develop issues down the road or they can be reinforced ahead of time to prevent issues. In the theme of the thread - questioning known failure points - if spring hangers, specifically here in this post, haven't been known to fail then the statistics there would point to them being adequate = not worth my time/effort to do anything about, per se. The other side of this coin is the axle capacity. If the axles were right at or below the GVWR - then I would question the whole set up - axles, springs, spring hangers/frame attachment. In this specific case - the combined axles are over the GVWR = I don't think they would be worth upgrading. That would have to be given some extra thought down the road as every RV/trailer is different.

3 of 3: And a close up of the weld on the right. That is an ugly weld. Through the paint coating you can see obvious porosity and lack of uniformity with the travel speed etc. If this were on the trailer frame that would be a no-go for me. Since this is on a component that is not related to the integrity of the trailer frame this in and of itself does not concern me. Am I happy with what I see with the weld? Absolutely not. Am I OK with it enough that I would still buy this unit if it were the one I was looking to buy? Yes, with one major condition: That condition being that the frame itself (those members structurally required for the integrity of the trailer going down the road) is welded sufficiently. The leveling jack frames not being part of that trailer-going-down-the-road integrity is a good place for inexperienced welders to gain experience. So, if that is how Lippert operates - I am really glad they do that because it is what apprentice welders need. The only way to learn skilled trades is to do them, and sadly in todays' world we have very few outlets for young people to learn those trades outside of the workforce. There are few companies that can afford to give welders "burn time" on scraps. They need to find a way to combine production with giving "burn time" to those that need to gain experience so that "gaining experience" is profitable, as opposed to being an expense. Now, if those inexperienced welders were put on the frame welding - then I would have a problem with it. And the only way to know for sure is to open up the underbellys and inspect the frame welding. Thats going to be a tough one.

2 of 3 This is the corner of said leveling jack framing that I detailed. You can see a bit of surface rust coming under the reinforcement plate welded in the corner - likely because the coating method they used to coat the frame post-assembly/welding didn't adequately seep in under the reinforcement plate. That is a bigger concern than the welds to me.

RE: weld subject/discussion: Here are some pictures from yesterday - Grand Design, Lippert Frame. Manufacturer date somewhere around the last 1/4 of '21, no idea on the frame - not sure if they are mass produced and just picked at GD from a stack that was made a year prior for example? Anywho - the frames are inaccessible - they are sealed underbellys. So I will have to figure that one out down the road as to how to inspect a frame before purchase, but we're still in the "learning all we can about RV's" phase before we find the direction we want to pursue. That having been said, the following assembly is the framing for the leveling jacks. Is it structural? Yes and no. It is "Yes" because it does carry weight at times - when the leveling jacks are in use and the RV is parked. It is "No" because these frame members have no relation to the integrity of the "trailer frame" - as would be needed going down the road, subject to the additional stresses, vibrations, etc of the RV going down the road. I'll do these in separate posts - 3 total - as the max file size is 100kb.

Not sure how much weight there is to that idea - stopping 3G. There are too many devices that rely on it. I think LTE/broadband sits between 3G and 5G, if I have my terminology right (I have Sprint and can force between LTE and CDMA - CDMA being equivalent to 3G, and my phone is not 5G capable). Without going on a tangent too far that may have unwanted ruffled feathers - there are some nefarious purposes intermingled with 5G that I believe will be shut down. There will be a "push" for 5G from a certain segment of industry/technology - and it isn't all for good reasons. As to when - either 5G getting shut down, or there being a significant gear shift away from nefarious purposes - no idea on a timeline. And for the same reason - I can see there being an extension to the lifespan of 3G technology if there are blocks to what we see advertised as "5G" today.

Excellent info. I didn't mention this in my previous post, but I did notice some light rust on the framing around the leveling jack frames/welds sitting in the dealers' lot. So what ever process they do to coat the frames doesn't appear to be all that great. As to the covered underbelly - I can appreciate what you said. Yeah, they can end up trapping junk in places you don't want it to be sitting for years = accelerates rot/rust. As to weather we'll be in - everything from the heat of the summer to the cold/snow/ice of winter (though probably not nearly as much as the summer heat - but I'm sure we will encounter some).

George - I'm glad you made it out in relatively OK shape from what it sounds like. Though not with a trailer, I've been through that. I ended up upside down in a pickup truck in the ditch after hitting ice. The weird thing was the whole episode went in slow motion. That was in 2010 and I still can play that slow motion back like the day it happened. Weird how things like that can stick so vividly. The truck was a diesel superduty - quite heavy. When I was upside down I felt the cab squishing - the seat was pushing me down on my head and neck. I don't know how I did it, but I just by instinct took my seat belt off and got horizontal and realized I could get out the window. So I did. About that time someone that saw the accident was running down the embankment I rolled down - quite frantically and it concerned me - I kinda felt like I was the one trying to calm him, not the other way around. Bizarre experience. I had a few glass cuts that the medics patched up. They wanted to take me to the hospital but I refused. Looking back on it, just as a "just in case", it probably would have been smart to go but I didn't have any issues after - no neck/back pain beyond anything I normally get. Moral of the story - it does happen and we keep on keepin' on. On the bright side - I ended up upgrading trucks, not immediately but within a year or so. Keep your head up, keep a positive attitude, and good things will come. The most important thing is you're OK and no one else, from what it sounds like, got hurt. That is a blessing that you didn't hit anyone else.

An update for today: We went to another dealer today and looked at some Grand Design TT's - 2 Imagines and a Reflection. They are definitely a step up from the Springdales (Keystone products) that we looked at the weekend before. The Grand Design's felt a lot more solid - cabinets, counters, dinette tables, etc. I did find that the "metal sinks" that I saw in the pictures are fake. The sinks are composite with a skin that is either a very thin metal film or another imitation material to look like it. That doesn't sit well with me, but considering a lot of the other things we saw and felt with them I am pleased to see the quality for comparison and feel they are, in fact, a step up in quality - considering the "weight class". I inspected the slides pretty close and the sealing of them. I am very unimpressed and concerned after seeing them move and how the seals work. That might just be me being overly "picky", but the "detailed person" in me says the slide seals need work to seal better - especially in cold weather. Taking the concern of the poor sealing to another level - I could see daylight through the corners from inside. And the slide floors were OSB. That screams "rot recipe". I would be curious how replaceable the slide floors would be - IE if you tear things down (can you tear things down?) to gain access to that wood OSB panel - is it replaceable? I'll have to detail that. I did not think of that detail until after the fact, but did get from the dealer that the slide seals and mechanisms are serviceable/replaceable. Overall today was a really productive day for us. We're glad we spent the time we did today and walked away with some good perspectives. We're happy with the amount of space in some of the "smaller" TT's with the slides - under 30'. The Reflection we looked at was 34' with opposing slides in the living room/kitchen area and it was very roomy. The better half loved the kitchen. Though there are a lot of possibilities there, I think we're going to be better off with a smaller unit. We are both comfortable with the space in, say, the Imagine 2600RB. They are going to get us to a 2670MK to compare - looks like another location has something coming available to take a look at, they had one that was dealer order that had already been sold at the place closest to us so that's out but they have other locations. We'll see how that goes. We still want to check out other options - and to a point that was made earlier - some used units, even pretty old units, so we can better form our overall perspectives on how things hold up (or not), how things were made vs now, etc, etc. If I had to settle today for an RV based on the feel of things, layout, and going in with a deeper philosophy of making upgrades/improvements as we go I would say I am happy with Grand Design. Though, as has been discussed - and the root of the thread - there are a lot of factors and some things we really need to analyze and pick through. Oh - last note - I was not able to inspect frames sufficiently. The RV's we looked at were all "arctic rated" and the underbellys were sealed. The only framing exposed was the V to the coupler and the leveling jack mounts. I did take pictures of the rear leveling jack mount on one of the RV's - it looked like Lippert put someone on that task for welding practice. For that assembly, that doesn't bother me much really. I would be a bit bummed if something like that failed, but that is relatively easy to fix (easy to get to) and the stuff to do it would already be with me. The welds I did see on the heavier parts (again, few due to the sealed underbelly) were nice. Axles on the smaller units were 4400lb. That is adequate for the units we looked at (8495lb GVWR and under, 7495 on the smallest). I did not pay attention to tires - someone mentioned that earlier here or another thread I had going about that in that RV manufacturers use the cheapest tires. That would be an excellent thing to have lined up to replace right off the bat - better tires.

@lappir - Thanks for the detail. No worries on the tangents. Those tangents are good to "step in your shoes" a bit and that is a valuable perspective for me. @Kirk W - Thanks for the detail. That is good to know. @duraduk - We are curious about toy haulers, however we have not seen one yet that we could do with. The main thing there is we want separate living space and garage space. All the small ones we've seen combine the living space with the garage in transport mode. We do want to see more options there, though, because there are a lot of pluses to them as you point out that would suit the "gear hauling" aspect of what I am after.

Thanks for the detail. What is the brand/model, if you have it, of the mini split you are using? I'd be interested to look it up. As far as heating goes, though - I'd probably be interested in a propane furnace to start with. Then run separate AC. Still learning on what things are on those fronts.

Excellent info! I wouldn't have thought about that with the solar panels. Alternative energy is something I've been interested in for years. I've seen some of the solar options on some RV's on the market and they do look interesting, though I haven't done enough research in tot hem. When it comes to that aspect I am more apt to set something up of my own creation anyway. In the sense of the discussion here - I would be tempted to get good AC capacity (2 units) from the get-go and forego the solar stuff. We do have generators so remote power is no issue in that sense, but that doesn't speak to alternative energy options - that would have to be thought through and set up later (wind and solar), depending on use cases.

Excellent info. Lots of things I didn't consider, and I'll throw my calipers in with my tape measure tomorrow. We had planned tomorrow for visiting another RV dealer in the state but with the snowstorm the county where they are was in a level 3 snow emergency and everything was closed. I did hear they were going to re-open tomorrow so we're still on track there. As to welds - I do a bit of welding myself, on my own stuff - as a hobby you could say, but I have had some formal education on the subject in college. That is an interesting subject. Yeah, your analogy of a "stack of dimes" is somewhat of an indicator, however welding methods vary and, so too, do the results. I'll leave that topic with this - not all ugly welds on the surface are scary welds. You bring up a good point about the flexing. I am not sure how to go about that one when "tire kicking". I don't want to try to get the dealers to do that type of effort to give us that perspective - of the flexing - while out trying to get a feel for all the manufacturers' various qualities. Though, it is a hard point to not check before going down the road further with any particular unit - and at that point I don't want to settle on a unit then do that before closing the deal only to find issues. I don't have a problem with - and have a few times already - crawling underneath parked units to inspect. Not having any reference for main frame member thicknesses/strengths - measuring I beam flange and webbing thickness (if able, not sure webbing is accessible anywhere) would only give a number. If those you state are based in reality of frame thicknesses - 1/4" and 5/16" - that is a good reference. If those numbers are just "thrown out there" not based in reality of frame thicknesses then a measured frame is only a number to me. I can dig in to that one later, so long as I have numbers from what we look at. Speaking of thin/weak frames - from a fabrication standpoint - I would venture a guess that the failure points are near welds, whether the welds themselves (not the higher risk) or the base metal around the weld (heat affected zone, higher risk). But that is a wild arse guess - I don't know how the frames are designed and haven't been around them to have any familiarity with issues that have occurred with some - which is the purpose of the thread. Lippert frames are so common they are hard to avoid - so what are the "uglys"? Somewhat going back to the earlier point made about the slide corner cracking - there was a 5th wheel, I believe it was a Montana, that someone had about 4-5 years ago where the side of the portion above the hitch had cracked open. To repair it they had to fillet open the front of the 5th wheel to gain access to the front frame/5th wheel hitch framing. It seems to me something in that metal had broken or bolts had loosensed up causing things to move that shouldn't have. That type of issue is hard to figure out ahead of time. If there are bolts buried inside of the RV that are inaccessible (without cutting things open that shouldn't have to be cut open) - it is the "wait and see what happens" approach. If you get lucky you don't have to touch it, if you are unlucky you have a broke open side of your RV down the road. Likewise - welded joints in the same inaccessible areas can't be inspected easily.

@TXiceman Thanks for the info. 1st point on the tire = axle issue = thats in the realm of self-repairing if you're mechanically inclined and you have the parts (either there in the wrong positions or you have to get new/right parts) Though, I agree it shouldn't be an issue with a new unit. 2nd point on the slide - that's not a frame issue. I meant metal frame, bracing, tongue (if TT, or kingpin framing if 5th). Though, the crack is interesting. When you say "corner of slide" - is that metal structure? Or the side wall of the slide (what is built up on said structure)? Fiberglass, wood, sheet metal? A crack means there is stress and something moving or trying to move. The questions there are what and should it move/flex?

That's at the root of why I started the thread. If we can't avoid it - what are the "uglys" we should know ahead of time? And can we prevent them in the first place (thinking reinforcement). Why I am avoiding the "axle" topic is that can be rectified - replace the axles/springs (whether leaf or torsion). A frame, on the other hand.... How do you "replace a frame" under the rest of the RV? Not sure that is realistic since the RV is built on said frame. So to prevent the frame/RV's foundation from developing issues, or knowing what to look for ahead of time when looking at used and either fix or cross it off the list - what should we know?

I am (unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) familiar with the Lippert axle/hub/bearing issues. That has been a hot topic in the RV industry. Dexters don't seem to be immune from issues, either. One such article: https://thecampingadvisor.com/lippert-axles-vs-dexter-axles/ My question/thread here is related to frames instead. Does anyone have any experience with direct frame issues with Lippert frames? Has anyone had a Lippert frame need to be repaired? If so - what/where was the repair? What (if anything) special had to be done in order to do the repair (IE - open a wall, floor, remove slides, etc, etc)? Where was it done (IE - dealer or other shop, your own repair)? Warranty or non-warranty? What I mean by "direct frame issues" are any weakness/cracks/failures unrelated to axle issues. Bending axles, broken springs, etc are a separate issue that can very well lead to frame issues - I would be curious if any frame failures have stemmed from these issues and where on the frame, but my core question is outside of those. What I am curious about is if there are known weak points/failure points of Lippert frames that aren't caused by/related to other issues - just loading and vibration going down the road. Another article series that is an interesting read related to mostly manufacturing shortcomings (been around for years now - it has been republished in several places, this is just one, as the original - RV Daily Report - hasn't been in operation for several years now): https://movingonwithmargo.com/is-the-rv-industry-in-a-death-spiral/

@duraduk - Excellent information! Can you elaborate on your AC options? I assume the RV has one on top then the "portable AC" is in addition? Why go with a portable instead of on top? I suppose if the ducting isn't there for a 2nd unit that might preclude a roof top unit. @Kirk W - Thanks for the info. That is a good point and something that we are taking to heart on our search. When it comes to the density/sturdiness of things I am probably the most picky of the two of us there - I tend to think of the bigger picture and "what is behind it". But you are bringing up an important point on the weight issue. To that point - if all of our realistic options are in that "boat" then we need to consider what the options are between brands and what we can live with. As mentioned before - she would be happier with porcelain sinks but if those aren't realistic and metal is - metal would hold up better than plastic.

Wheres the air compressor, Denny? Viair system behind the side panels? 😄 In all seriousness, we think alike on that point. Down the road I would like to have a portable air compressor with around 20-30gal tank capacity I can run on the road. I've looked at the Viair systems. As convenient as they would be for "on-board air" - a conventional compressor run off a generator would be more versatile for me because I can weld off the same generator. Yeah there are engine drive compressors and welders, but I don't think you can beat the versatility of a separate generator powering both - with commercial power available on-site (wherever that may be) theres no need to run the gen to get the compressor or welder going. The compressor I started with at home was a 20gal. The tank is rusted beyond my comfort level of using it so I have a 10gal harbor freight tank plumbed in for interim use. However, its only a 135psi set up. I haven't used it in a year or so. I got a heavier 240/120v circuit in to run welders more comfortably. I was using a 30a dryer outlet on the inside of the garage wall. It actually will provide all the power I need for any welding I might do here (not real heavy), but I had to run a cord through the door to the garage to do it. So instead of just splitting it with another outlet and running the circuit hard at times I thought I'd just run a whole other heavier circuit. With that set up I can run pretty much what ever single phase motor I want - they top out around 7.5hp (beyond that is 3-phase). I'm thinking that is the way to go - air is one of those things you can never have too much of, and if you have too little its irritating. Back more on topic - air tools on the road would be great. Yeah you can get capable cordless impacts these days, but there are things you can do with air a lot easier that cordless tools can't - fill (and mount) tires. I have a giant ratchet - made by EZ Red - that extends to around 4 feet. They make a 3/4" drive and 1" drive version, mine is the 3/4" and I have an adapter to 1" if I need it. If I can't work bolts and nuts with normal size tools I use that ratchet. It beats a pipe and a smaller ratchet or wrench, or even a long breaker bar - it ratchets - and doesn't take a lot of air to run like a heavier impact wrench. Even if air and a heavy impact is available a giant ratchet is a fantastic back up. Its saved my bacon a few times. Stiff lug nuts are a common one. I break with the EZ Red (off, spin with drill or by hand off & on and torque wrench to set proper torque - always).

@dblr Thanks for the link. They have some interesting layouts. At the moment we're trying to get a feel for build quality and what it is like inside what we are seeing pictures of. To that point - that was what was good about the Montanas - it gave us another benchmark to the feel of everything, in addition to being another form factor (5th wheel vs TT). We aren't ruling out a 5th wheel but that adds complexity to the use case as I need to retain the use of, and enclose, the truck bed. A 5th wheel makes that more work to switch between set ups on each end of where we stay - arrival and departure. That is the tune of another thread I have over in the General forum, essentially, asking if the benefits to handling of a 5th wheel out-weigh handling issues with TT's. Looking at the Grand Design I linked to above - that size and weight class fits with the truck I have pretty well. That doesn't mean I won't have handling issues, but the GVWR of the trailer is several thousand lbs under the truck's capacity so there is head room there (that trailer can be pulled with a 1/2 ton, my truck is an F350, SRW but still has heavier springs/overloads). And bumper pull would allow me to retain the truck bed as it is today with the cap I have - that is a big plus, but that doesn't make it the "end all, be all" set up. There is a lot more to weed through. Down the road it might be in the realm of possibilities to upgrade trucks. This has come up a couple times before, but I do have a class A license (no restrictions, doubles/triples/tanks endorsements) and am familiar with the heavier trucks. Between upgrading to a bigger pickup and going to a class 7 or 8 there are a lot of benefits to a 7-8, and setting up a good used truck is probably cheaper than a bigger pickup. Registration, insurance, etc is another matter. With a class 7/singled semi that wouldn't have any earthly limitations on any 5th wheel out there. Adding a toad and/or other gear could be tricky on a 7 given the single drive axle. A tandem (class8) would significantly increase the carrying capacity on the truck - pin weight, hitch, toad, gear, etc. That is way down the road, though, and isn't in the cards for options in the near term. As far as 5th wheels go - we'd be looking at ones in the mid to low 30' range, but there again that adds complexity to convert between the enclosed truck bed when at some destinations.

Continuing the thought process here... One thing that bothered me about a lot of the units we looked at last weekend was the "hollowness" and "cheapness" - counter tops, sinks, faucets, etc. When we looked at the Montana 5th wheels they had some upgrades in these areas. They were definitely an "upgrade", however the same "hollowness" was there with more of the structure - walls, doors, cabinets and the like. Considering what I am calling "upgrades" in the Montanas - it appears from the pictures I'm finding of Grand Design's units - they are on a similar level when it comes to sinks and faucets. The bathroom and kitchen sink, for example, in the following unit are metal, as opposed to obviously being cheap plastic. I like that. I think the better half would prefer porcelain, given the choice and getting that feel in one of the Montanas we looked at, but metal is definitely a step up in quality over plastic. Of the floorplans I've seen from Grand Design - the following one checks a lot of boxes. I would have to scrap the idea of "no slides", though. It has the island kitchen she wants and I like the desk set up in the rear - a lot - over a lot of the other floor plans. Of course, the catch is the build quality. The best suiting floor plan isn't much of a floor plan if it falls apart in 2 years. https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2022/travel-trailer/imagine/floorplans/2670mk With the convertible couch/pull-out bed option we would have extra sleeping capacity.

I have a Leer 180 cap on my F350 long bed. It is my 3ord Leer, 2nd 180, between 3 trucks. I really like it. The last Leer 180 I had was on a short bed truck. I got the "outdoors package" in that one which had the sliding windows, coat hanger, and a locking rifle box that went length-wise across the ceiling on one side. The rifle box took up too much head room in that one. So when I got the next one I got all the options without the full package that came with the rifle box and I've been a lot happier with it. In years past I did switch between a fabric tonneu and the cap. I got the tonneu first before I got the cap with the intent of having options. Where I lived in the past the truck would fit in the garage without the cap so I went with the tonneu every day then when I traveled I put the cap back on. Now I have to park outside so the cap stays on, but I have the options. That brings up a point - it is entirely possible to remove the cap once it is installed at the dealer. I have a lift I made out of dimensional lumber that uses an electric winch to power it. It is designed off the mechanism of a hydraulic floor jack. The hydraulic cylinder is replaced with a winch that pulls from a higher rigged point above. The same scissor action that the lifting plate of the jack example is what keeps the cap lift stable - it lifts from the interior ceiling of the cap (slides in with the window up and tailgate down). I would recommend some gap between the cap and the bed rails. When I got mine installed we put cut up rubber bed liner mat strips down - they are about 1/4-3/8" thick. That keeps the lip of the fiberglass cap off the metal sides. Last note is on wind driven rain you can have that blow up under the cap and over the bed rails. I use Great Stuff spray foam to seal the cap to the bed rails. I line up the cap/truck so I can drop the cap in to position quick. Then spray a bead of Great Stuff and drop the cap down. Doing that has solved the issue of wind-driven rain leaking in to the bed. Edit - the Leer 180 is a "mid height" cap. It has a higher roof line than the cab roof of the truck. I went this way to get more interior space without going to the real tall cap model. I think the styling is better. So it is a compromise between style and function. Another thought on edit - if you have any fabrication skills - you can make a cap. There are some (Swiss comes to mind) aluminum caps out there. Instead of making a rigid, fixed cap you could make one that has parts that come apart/screw together. If you need the ability to remove the cap to use the truck bed without the cap (either for a 5th wheel or hauling taller equipment or appliances like refrigerators) - this would be one way to do it. The window assembly on my Leer 180 comes with the frame, latches, etc as one unit. I broke the glass several years ago and to replace it I had to remove all the metal framing around the cap opening (down to the fiberglass) and replace all of it. So you could simply order a replacement window set and build your cap rear opening to fit it. There are also some accordion style soft-sided caps out there that will slide up to the front of the bed exposing most of the truck bed. Lots of options.

@franco-bolli Thanks for the details. I'm surprised you get 2-3 flushes before the pump kicks on to recharge. Though, I suppose the RV toilets use a lot less water. I don't know how big ours is at the cabins but the majority of the time when you flush a toilet the pump ends up running towards the end of the flush cycle.

Yep. That is something we're looking at options with. I will say, though, that we don't like what we've seen in person so far in that category where the "garage" for transport is the "living space and kitchen" in "camp use". It is a way to multi-purpose available space, but we don't care for those designs. I would like to find a design like that which offers a form of collapsible dinette to contrast. So far none of the ones we've looked at have had that - they have opposing couches with no table. One thing I keep an open mind to is not necessarily taking the layouts as-is at face-value - I look at possibilities in modifying things and in what ways to accommodate our uses better. For example - a floor plan/layout that has limited counter top space - make a stand-alone, collapsible island, or peninsula counter extension that can be set up when needed. Or, to satisfy the better half's desire to have a bigger oven - open up the space where the factory oven is and put in a bigger one - can the counter, drawers, cabinets be modified/remodeled to get a wider oven in? Of course, if we could get all our wants in a layout that works without modifying/remodeling that would be easier. If we went "toy hauler" route then having a walled off dedicated garage would be ideal so we're not "loading/hauling stuff in her kitchen". That is only available on larger/longer models. The trailer's GVWR and axle ratings are more important - no matter what way we go.

Thanks for the input. 2011 F350 with the 6.7. 177,000 miles (I'm the original owner). I'm on my 5th EGR core, needs shocks (next season), brakes (next season), I want to replace the springs to get ahead of them (no signs of issues, but freshen'ing them up is a good idea - the rear has been stressed a good bit with loads), and I just had the high pressure fuel pump grenade at 175,000. At least the whole fuel system is good for a good while now (new rails, injectors, pump, everything on the high pressure circuit). Around 150,000 miles I rebuilt the front end - initially everything down-stream of the pitman arm and I tightened up the gear box. Then the next year I replaced the gear box - it just was too worn out. The key to issues on the road is preventative maintenance - replacing things that should be replaced before there is an issue (IE - springs, brakes). The death wobble could have been prevented had I got to replacing components that had slop in them before they got bad enough to cause the wobble, for example.

Going backwards in posts a bit but I did want to hit on this - this is getting right to the heart of the thread. I've had some pretty squirrely experiences on the road. I'd say the worst was the infamous "death wobble" issue in my F350 - worn out steering components. That was with no trailer, but still an experience. Some semi loads I've had were *very* top heavy (just in time steel loads where they load in reverse order of use - which meant the heaviest stuff sometimes used first was at the top, go figure), and other bad ones were empty curtain side trailers in cross winds - sails for trailers with no weight. What I don't know is how common handling issues in TT's (and the like - bumper pulls) are. I know a light tongue on a bumper pull trailer can cause fish-tailing. To me, that is a no-brainer to deal with. I don't think that is what my concern is - it could be part of it, but a light tongue would be pretty easy to deal with. My concern getting to the handling issues is all the other stuff that can cause trailer sway. If the "box" of the trailer (wind surface area) is too strong for a "light" truck in a bumper pull configuration and there's not much that can be done to get away from it then it might be worth a consideration to get better handling with a 5th wheel if we're "up there" on max'ing out our possibilities, even if that does require more "work" to set up/tear down. The ProPride hitch set up (current/new Hensley design) allows lateral "swing" of the trailer tongue so that it doesn't throw the tow vehicle side-to-side and self-dampens sway. It is a good design, but for the $3500 or so it would take I'd rather go 5th wheel with an air ride hitch like the TS3, though it is heavy. The Companion I want to say is around 150-200lbs, vs the 400lbs for the TS3 - a 200lb pin weight penalty for the TS3.