Norcold N611 not cooling in HOT weather

[gypsydan]

I am having a problem getting my refrig down to 40 degrees. I'm in tucson, with daily ambiant temp's of 104-114, and at night it is going down to 80. All day the box temp was at 70+. Tonight, at 9pm, ambiant temp is down to 86, and refrig is now down to 50. The freezer does not have a problem, as it is in the teens. The refrig is on the shady side. I am assuming the ambiant temp is having a lot to do with not letting the box cool. I don't have a fan in the box, and am unable to find one, but will try finding a computer chassi fan to see if that will help.

Luckily I am not on the road, but with sale of house closing in 5 days, I will then be forced to live in RV as I will be a full-timer at that point. I thus have a couple of questions:

1. How does outside ambiant temp effect the box temp? 
2. If outside temp effects the box, why would it not also effect the freezer? 
3. How can I tell if crystals have built up in system, causing the cooling cycle to not work properly?
4. How, though, would a fan help cool the box. I know it works to circulate the air to keep refrig items cool, but if the fins are at 40 degrees, what would keep the rest of the box from also being the same temp? 
5. Door seals are only 3 years old?

Any help and comments will be appreciated.

 

[Kirk W]

1) Outside temperature has a tremendous impact on the ability of an RV refrigerator too stay cool. I am unable to find any figures for the maximum capacity of cooling for an RV refrigerator, but both the ambient temperature inside of your RV as well as the ambient temperature outside play a part. In addition, direct sun can also lower the ability and the same is true for air movement through the refrigerator. 

2) Outside temperature impacts the ability of the coolant to remove heat but the freezer compartment is last to see that effect because they way that an RV refrigerator works is to apply the refrigerant to the top of a series of coils that pass through the freezer compartment and continue down through the chill box area. All of the temperature control comes from a sensor that is in the chill box area so the freezer sees as much effect as can happen in the upper coils and if any additional ability to remove heat remains, that is then used to cool the chill box. If there is no capacity left, the chill box temperature rises and then calls for the cooling unit to turn on, or to continue to stay on. As a result the freezer will always be at a lower temperature and as ambient temperature outside lowers the cooling capacity, the chill box temperature will rise first. It was done in that way because frozen food is more susceptible to temperature than chill box contents. What you are seeing is a very normal symptom for too little cooling capacity. It could also be an early warning that the cooling unit has begun to fail.

3) There is no way to do that which will not damage the unit.

4) There are actually two different fans that can help, or possibly resolve your problem. The first is to increase the air movement through the cooling unit to improve it's capacity to remove heat. For that it is common to add a 12V computer fan in the exhaust area blowing out, or to the intake(bottom) area blowing upward. When ambient temperature rises, the ability to remove heat from the refrigerant coils decreases and the amount of air movement decreases due to a lower difference in air temperature that creates convection air flow.  Adding a fan to move more air allows cooling to increase do to more air flow, much like sitting in front of a fan if you are sweating. 

There is also value to a fan inside of the chill box to better distribute the cooling capacity and those are readily available in most RV stores. 

5) While door seals could play a part, the main thing that they do is to cause the cooling fins to ice up. I have never seem them do anything near the problems that you have.

I suggest that the first thing that you do is to place a small, 120V van into the lower section of your cooling unit, pointing up and leaving the access panel off. I have done this in hot weather as a quick assistance to an RV refrigerator and if the cooling unit has not begun to fail, that will probably help pretty quickly,  The first picture below is of a fan that I would use first, then one of the fans for the interior chill box.

  

[oldjohnt]

Hi again Dan, so back to the fridge problem again, hey I've been there done that AND ITS NO FUN plus my beer isn't cold lol

I cant answer all your specific technical questions but I will offer suggestions, so here goes. This is in case all else is working fine but due to extreme hot ambient temperature the fridge isn't cooling as well. This is NOT intended as Troubleshooting or answers to your questions, its ONLY things I've experienced that help cooling if everything else is okay......... 

1) The ambient temperature affects operation as the fridge walls are NOT perfect insulators. The hotter the temp the box is setting in the more heat that has to be extracted from the inside

2) I don't know how to tell if crystals are hampering flow ??? I only know off level operation can cause it. Similar If there are no tell tale signs of refrigerant loss, I cant tell you how to diagnose that.

                           HERES WHAT I CAN SAY BASED ON EXPERIENCE CAN HELP COOLING IF ALL ELSE IS OKAY

1) My FIRST recommendation would be installation of one or two 12 Volt DC powered TOP FANS  (where roof vent is located) to draw cooler air up from the bottom, past over the coils to help extract heat, and exhaust it out the top roof vent.

 In my OPINION that's more efficient and can extract more heat (subject to air flow pattern and CFM) then having a fan setting in the bottom blowing air all over the place in  all different directions with although sure "some" of it going past the coils and exiting out top. 

NOTE Im NOT saying any old fan at the bottom doesn't help, sure it does, I'm ONLY saying if the bulk of the air flow is cooler bottom to hotter top and it goes mostly past the coils then out top it may extract more heat then random air flow STILL ALL SUBJECT TO AIR FLOW PATTERN AND CFM .  A top fan drawing cooler air up past the coils (subject to CFM and air flow patterns) is a good design in my opinion and is second best to what I've used that worked is two 12 Volt muffin fans at bottom blowing straight up EVEN THOUGH SURE ANY AIR FLOW CAN HELP   

NOTE (even though NOT my preference, I prefer it be up top) if I used a fan at the bottom, my PREFERENCE would it be a 12 VDC (I have used 12 VDC 4 inch square muffin fans at the bottom pointed up and they did help) versus 120 VAC so it works off house battery power if dry camping and there would be no need for an inefficient heat producing inverter to operate it.

2) INTERIOR FANS

  Its my opinion and I have used and was very satisfied with 12 VDC fans that mounted on the interior fins. They prevented frost and freezing up on the fins and helped keep the fridge cooler.

NOTE its my opinion and experience the DC powered direct fin fans WORK MUCH BETTER THEN ANY SMALL STAND ALONE BATTERY POWERED so called fridge vent fans  

Of course, its my opinion if the outside side door is removed efficiency improves. 

Assuming there's ONLY ONE thermocouple I don't see how you can change the settings for freezer versus fridge differences IE the freezer is colder because its designed that way  

QUESTION FOR DAN  Does it make any difference (IF your fridge is dual) if you use LP Gas or Electric ??? If so we need to re think this

 

For your convenience I have attached a few URL links regarding installation of the type of fans which I recommend  and a few websites where they can be purchased

 1) You Tube Video of both fan installations  NOTE Id think two fans would be better ????????????? This just shows installation. Again its all about CFM and air flow patterns to maximize heat transfer !!!!!!!!!!!! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Ueb94fyd0

2) Dual exterior fans

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-DOMETIC-NORCOLD-add-on-cooling-Fans-SMFK2C-ON-OFF-Thermostat-SHIPS-TODAY/114109269575?hash=item1a91714647:g:ld0AAOSwqohem4VC

3) Interior Fin Fans

https://www.smartrving.net/best-rv-refrigerator-fans/

4) General Fridge Fan talk

https://www.smartrving.net/best-rv-refrigerator-fans/

5) Pictures of different fridge fans

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rv+refrigerator+vent+fan&id=B6188692788106BAFE47695C4FC81A74A720A5E1&form=IQFRBA&first=1&scenario=ImageBasicHover

There ya go Dan, hey I'm an Electrical NOT a Mechanical engineer or a fridge expert and this is ONLY based my 49 years of RV experience SO NO WARRAANTY see what the experts have to say not meeeeeeeeeeeeeee lol

Let me know what you think and what you find, hope this helps

John T

Edited August 28, 2020 by oldjohnt

[Kirk W]

4 hours ago, oldjohnt said:

 In my OPINION that's more efficient and can extract more heat (subject to air flow pattern and CFM) then having a fan setting in the bottom blowing air all over the place in  all different directions with although sure "some" of it going past the coils and exiting out top. 

The key is a better volume or air and promptly. As a permanent fan I too would use a 12V in the top, blowing outward but the point is to get things cooling as quickly as possible. One fan like I suggested (and have used both on my RV refrigerator as well as that of a friend) will move much more air than a little 12V and it is far quicker to string an extension cord and just place the temporary fan into position. 

[oldjohnt]

That's right, indeed the more air the better (up to a point that is) like I said its "subject to air flow pattern and CFM" A larger 120 VAC fan (can be fine when parked and cover removed with proper air flow) likely delivers more CFM then a small computer muffin fan. The four inch 12 Volt models I tried worked fine provided there's room to mount them blowing air in the right direction............Some of the videos suggest a thermostat fan control, I never messed with that I just used an On Off switch as needed in extreme hot climates and let them (12 Volt units) run when parked or driving if necessary.

I can't wait to see what Dan comes up with and what, IF ANY, of all those posted (top or bottom, one or two, size and type, 12 Volt or 120 Volt, inside fin cooling fan) helps. I'm NOT a fan of running extension cords (but see my PS below) or any unnecessary Inverter use when dry camped if not required, but if that's what it takes when parked (120 volt fan and cords will get the job done) in extreme hot climates I would GO FOR IT regardless which fan it takes or how it looks, cant let the beer get hot now lol..........One advantage of the permanent mounted 12 Volt fans (versus a 120 volt with door open when parked) is they are ready to go, no hook ups necessary regardless if parked or driving down the road.  

PS if there's a duplex receptacle (or use a multi adapter) where the fridge plugs for its 120 VAC power YOU DONT EVEN NEED ANY EXTENSION CORDS    There's often one already there just waiting yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

PS Im sure there are more correct and technical answers and troubleshooting to solve Dan's problem, all this fan talk is simply what has helped me when all else seemed fine...We need some real fridge experts this is getting  above my pay grade lol

 John T

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by oldjohnt

[Ray,IN]

I have a fan similar to this one zip-tied to the bottom tube, pointed upwards. I bought it with the Fridge Defend/ARP unit. A blower-type fan has much more output than an ordinary bladed fan of similar size. Anyway, I had to back off the temperature setting 2 levels to prevent liquids in the fridge from freezing in 85°-90° temperatures.  (The OEM fans do not work)

Edited August 31, 2020 by Ray,IN

[lenp]

I agree with the fans mentioned above.  However, on the last two fivers I had frig problems with I discovered the manufacturer DID NOT follow installation requirements for specified spacing and baffle requirements.  I don't remember exactly but it was something like no more than four inches between the upper fins and the rear wall or a baffle needed to be installed to direct air over the coils.  Correcting the enclosure requirements improved performance significantly.  I added fans while the unit was out and added a switch to them so I could compare operation with and without - basically to see if the enclosure corrections had helped.

Might be worth checking to ensure the rear chimney area is clear all the way to the top.  

Good luck!

Lenp 

[oldjohnt]

9 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

I have a fan similar to this one zip-tied to the bottom tube, pointed upwards. I bought it with the Fridge Defend/ARP unit. A blower-type fan has much more output than an ordinary bladed fan of similar size.

Hi neighbor Ray, is that the system I helped you install ??? its been a while and I forget lol 

It's a 12 volt  permanent mounted with no extension cords or door having to be open right ??? Or is it 120 Volt ???

Sounds like it's working great, congratulations. 

John T

[mptjelgin]

When I put in our Fridge Defend/ARP module I got the unit with two fans. They are the small "squirrel cage" type fans like the one linked by Ray.  I installed one in the bottom grill blowing in, and one in the top grill blowing out. Together they move a lot of air and make a big difference in cooling. 

I built a simple balsawood "duct" for the bottom fan to direct the intake air to the bottom of the coils. I have a lot of space in the lower area of my fridge and wanted to duct the air to where it needed to go. 

My fridge is in a slideout, and I suspected that the factory-installed fan had died and my cooling was noticeably reduced. The addition of the two fans has made a huge difference, and it cools better now than when new. Airflow is your friend!!

[GR "Scott" Cundiff]

15 hours ago, Kirk W said:

The key is a better volume or air and promptly. As a permanent fan I too would use a 12V in the top, blowing outward but the point is to get things cooling as quickly as possible. One fan like I suggested (and have used both on my RV refrigerator as well as that of a friend) will move much more air than a little 12V and it is far quicker to string an extension cord and just place the temporary fan into position. 

In my case, I put a small 110v fan at the bottom as a temporary fix.  With 100 degree sun beating on that side of the RV all afternoon I had to do something.  I just unplugged the ice maker and plugged the small fan in, pointing upward.  Made a nice difference.

I also replaced the thermosister.  The original still showed resistance changing based on temp, but it smelled a bit burnt.   Also, put a clip on fan inside on the fins.

I went from temps nearing 50 inside, to high 30's.  The fins show 28-30 degrees. 

Of course a better fix would be getting out of Texas in August! 

[oldjohnt]

33 minutes ago, mptjelgin said:

I installed one in the bottom grill blowing in, and one in the top grill blowing out. Together they move a lot of air and make a big difference in cooling. 

WOW CONGRATULATIONS now that's the best of BOTH worlds, a bottom fan IN (cooler air) PLUS a top fan exhausting (hot air) OUT. Am I correct in assuming both are 12 volt and operate with the panel closed parked OR driving ?? Or are they 120 Volt??  If so that sounds like a great solution. I haven't had any problems lately but if I ever do I like your solution.

Fun chat I hope we helped Dan ???????

John T 

[mptjelgin]

They are 12V, thermostatically controlled (from the ARP module) fans.  Everything is permanently mounted and the panels are buttoned up in their normal position. They will run while on the road, assuming the thermostat detects the need.  

[Ray,IN]

3 hours ago, oldjohnt said:

Hi neighbor Ray, is that the system I helped you install ??? its been a while and I forget lol 

It's a 12 volt  permanent mounted with no extension cords or door having to be open right ??? Or is it 120 Volt ???

Sounds like it's working great, congratulations. 

John T

Yes, that's what you helped me install, the optional blower-type fan is 12V. The ARP unit is wired in series with the  Norcold recall box, the fan connects to the ARP control unit.

I just turned off my fridge this morning, I had been checking the ice maker for proper operation. The fridge I had set on 5 (7 is max), the refrigerator portion was 20°, freezer was 0° 24 hrs after I turned on the fridge, empty of course.

How if we could just get to use the MH___. I'm still optimistic, still have reservation at Ft. Myers Beach this winter.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Ray,IN

[Kirk W]

2 hours ago, GR "Scott" Cundiff said:

In my case, I put a small 110v fan at the bottom as a temporary fix. 

That is exactly what I had in mind, although i used and extension cord from the park power pedestal and kept my ice maker working. 

[GR "Scott" Cundiff]

I didn't mention that another "fix" for us was that when we changed RV parks our new spot had the driver's side of the rig in the afternoon shade of the motorhome.  Now its the curb side that is taking it on the chin.  North Texas is expecting 104 this afternoon...then we should start a gradual cool down all the way into the lower 90s.

[oldjohnt]

4 hours ago, mptjelgin said:

They are 12V, thermostatically controlled (from the ARP module) fans.  Everything is permanently mounted and the panels are buttoned up in their normal position. They will run while on the road, assuming the thermostat detects the need.

Thanks for the reply mpt,   12 volt,,,,,,, permanent mounted,,,,,,,,,,,,, all buttoned up with no panels out,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, suitable for parked or driving,,,,,,,,,,,,that's about as good and easy as it gets.  Of course when parked if needed (which I seriously doubt) you could always use an extension cord, open the door and hang another 120 Volt fan on there...

 

3 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

Yes, that's what you helped me install, the optional blower-type fan is 12V. The ARP unit is wired in series with the  Norcold recall box, the fan connects to the ARP control unit.

I just turned off my fridge this morning, I had been checking the ice maker for proper operation. The fridge I had set on 5 (7 is max), the refrigerator portion was 20°, freezer was 0° 24 hrs after I turned on the fridge, empty of course.

How if we could just get to use the MH___. I'm still optimistic, still have reservation at Ft. Myers Beach this winter.

Thanks neighbor Ray, yes I remember helping you installing that and 12 volt makes it so easy. If you make it down this winter maybe we can hook up at Florida Flywheelers in Fort Meade or Pioneer Days in Zolfo Springs. I stay in my RV and exhibit at both those shows. 

John T 

Edited August 29, 2020 by oldjohnt

[RV_]

OMG! We sure don't miss that heat and humidity in the South. We only had one reefer issue but never stayed anywhere hot save our first year out when we pulled into Yuma and the CoOp there with 115° in the shade! We were always up north and even Alaska for summers. We had 90° in Alaska! Why aren't you folks staying up north for summer/fall until the temps drop? Here the humidity is usually 19% give or take 10%. When it rains we do get slightly humid like today with 65% humidity, but still nice. https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/colorado-springs/80903/current-weather/327351

Edited August 29, 2020 by RV_

[gypsydan]

On 8/28/2020 at 7:37 AM, Kirk W said:

I suggest that the first thing that you do is to place a small, 120V van into the lower section of your cooling unit, pointing up and leaving the access panel off. I have done this in hot weather as a quick assistance to an RV refrigerator and if the cooling unit has not begun to fail, that will probably help pretty quickly,  The first picture below is of a fan that I would use first, then one of the fans for the interior chill box.

  

Thank you for your input. I DO NOT recommend the blue fan, above, by Vitera, as it is useless. I bought it and discovered it has NO air flow because the fan blade is to small. I got one from Target, a 5" fan by Treva that is battery operated and works great. I do need to still put a fan to draw the air through the upper cooling fins by the roof, but can't do that until after I've closd the sale of my home, and have gone full-time.

[oldjohnt]

16 hours ago, gypsydan said:

I DO NOT recommend the blue fan, above, by Vitera, as it is useless

   Dan, Thanks for the feedback, I'm NOT surprised by that, I have sampled some of those and you can barely even feel air moving. Good catch on the one you got !!! It may be all you need ??? As far as producing some serious air circulation and preventing frost on the fins (if the one you bought doesn't prove satisfactory) I have used 12 Volt fans that mount right on the fins and they worked GREAT.......... FYI  Heres an example of the kind I'm talking about if you even end up needing more that is MAYBE NOT ???

Interior Fin Fans     https://www.smartrving.net/best-rv-refrigerator-fans/

Interior and Exterior fan installation video  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Ueb94fyd0

16 hours ago, gypsydan said:

I do need to still put a fan to draw the air through the upper cooling fins by the roof

Looks like you got plenty of testimonials and suggestions from all the gents above regarding the different types of fans for exterior cooling BOTH 12 Volt (permanent mount with panel door in place) as well as 120 Volt (when parked with panel door removed) and how they performed. Generally they appear to have performed quite well !!! Look at some of those good results they posted !!! Hey if it cools off a bit and with that much better interior fan you picked up YOU MAY NOT EVEN NEED ANY SORT OF EXTERNAL FAN 120 Volt or 12 Volt   hope so !!!!!

Good luck Dan, let us all know what methods you choose and how they worked IN CASE ANYONE HERE IS EVER IN THE SAME SITUATION

Best wishes Dan, God Bless

John T 

Edited August 31, 2020 by oldjohnt

[Kirk W]

18 hours ago, gypsydan said:

I DO NOT recommend the blue fan, above, by Vitera, as it is useless. I bought it and discovered it has NO air flow because the fan blade is to small.

We have used one of the fans quite similar to that one that is by Camco, and it has served very well. The only purpose of that type of fan is to prevent pooling of cold in the bottom of the refrigerator and thus having cold spots. Ours uses 1 D cell battery that we change annually with the smoke detector batteries. It sits in the rear corner of the bottom shelf and does what it is supposed to do. 

15 hours ago, oldjohnt said:

 I have used 12 Volt fans that mount right on the fins and they worked GREAT.........

What gypsydan is referring to is a fan that is part of one of the kits from ARP-RV that also prevents boiler overheating that can cause an RV fire. I have one just like it in our RV as does Mark Nemeth in his. Both of us highly recommend the ARP-RV kits as a key upgrade.                                                                                                                        

[mptjelgin]

42 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

We have used one of the fans quite similar to that one that is by Camco, and it has served very well. The only purpose of that type of fan is to prevent pooling of cold in the bottom of the refrigerator and thus having cold spots. Ours uses 1 D cell battery that we change annually with the smoke detector batteries. It sits in the rear corner of the bottom shelf and does what it is supposed to do. 

What gypsydan is referring to is a fan that is part of one of the kits from ARP-RV that also prevents boiler overheating that can cause an RV fire. I have one just like it in our RV as does Mark Nemeth in his. Both of us highly recommend the ARP-RV kits as a key upgrade.                                                                                                                        

Kirk-

Do you have a reference for the fan that you use in your fridge? We have one of the blue Camco fans that works fine but uses 2, D-cell batteries and depletes them every three months or so.  I'd love to get something that is a little less battery intensive!

 

[oldjohnt]

42 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

What gypsydan is referring to is a fan that is part of one of the kits from ARP-RV that also prevents boiler overheating that can cause an RV fire

   Yep,  that's the kind I helped my Neighbor Ray in Indiana install, a good product in my opinion for 12 Volt EXTERIOR cooling and protection PLUS you probably don't have to run extension cords for a 120 Volt fan and keep the door open......... 

The kind I spoke of and used (this is an INTERIOR fin fan NOT anything external) that worked great are the 12 Volt direct on fin mount fans which work fine, they improve interior air circulation, work better then a small battery fan, help cooling and prevent frost accumulation on the interior fins. Here are those, Dan may not even need this if his better battery powered fan does the job???

https://www.smartrving.net/best-rv-refrigerator-fans/

Fun chat yall, I bet Dan is going to cure his problem 

John T

[Kirk W]

10 minutes ago, oldjohnt said:

 Yep,  that's the kind I helped my Neighbor Ray in Indiana install, a good product in my opinion for 12 Volt EXTERIOR cooling and protection PLUS you probably don't have to run extension cords for a 120 Volt fan and keep the door open......... 

You still don't get it. The 120V fan idea was for a quick fix to get his refrigerator working again, and when he followed my advice, guess what? It worked.  🙄

[oldjohnt]

On 8/31/2020 at 11:11 AM, Kirk W said:

You still don't get it.

Yo Kirk thanks for your comments, I always enjoy our chats, HOWEVER you're mistaken because, FYI actually I DO GET IT, read my comments above.........Follow along now this should help you....

 1)   Dan asked for help because his fridge wasn't cooling in extreme hot weather.

 2) YOU first offered suggestions including a battery powered interior fan (which isn't real good according to Dan) PLUS a suggestion opening the door and using an extension cord and 120 volt fan WHICH CAN (subject to air flow and CFM) WORK ALL AGREE no problem.

 3) I followed with several examples and URL links of many different methods to improve cooling using 12 Volt fans with no need for cords and keeping the door open. I NEVER SAID YOUR METHOD DIDNT WORK,  I ONLY POINTED OUT ALTERNATIVE METHODS........  

4) Then  myself and Ray and mpt and lenp (its all there see above) all offered ALTERNATIVE suggestions WE ALL AGREE WORK  and they commented on how well BUT THEY DIDNT REQUIRE LEAVING THE DOOR OPEN AND USE CORDS AND A 120 VOLT FAN and are permanent plus can be used when driving.

  5) Soooooooo you see EITHER AND/OR BOTH are fine, yours is fine for an initial temporary door open fix using a cord and 120 volt fan,  I GET IT,  SEE   I never said otherwise , mine and mpt and lenp fixes are likewise fine for a more permanent fix so you don't have to use cords and a fan and don't have to remove the door........

Its okay Kirk, yours is fine for an initial temporary door open fix while mine and lenp and Ray and mpt's suggestions are also fine BOTH CAN WORK ......... Im NOT a fan of open doors and extension cords and temporary cures I PREFER A MORE PERMANENT NO HASSLE AUTOMATIC FIX (Like Ray and lenp and mpt and in my videos) but thats NOTTTTT to say what you do cant work and I support a persons free choice to do as they please.  It would be a boring world if we alllllllllll had to do things the same way lol. There's more then one way to skin a cat as they say, you have yours and others may do it different, live and let live, I respect your choices and methods and expect the same in return ...  

 120 Volt Fan and extension cord and open door is fine,,,,,,,,,,,12 Volt Fans with closed door okay when driving is fine BOTH ARE OKAY   We're ALL trying our best to offer tips to help Dan with his problem and different people may offer different suggestions THATS FINE AND TO BE EXPECTED it was kind of you to offer yours and several of us offered ours and we all meant well and I didn't see any disagreement that any of the methods were bad ones......Its all good as far as I'm concerned, I'm ONLY here to help as I'm sure you are likewise 

PS Regardless if 120 volt or 12 volt fans, all are STILL SUBJECT TO AIR FLOW PATTERNS AND CFM regarding their ability to help cool...  

   Hope this helps, post back any questions and I will be glad to help you.  Best wishes and God Bless you Kirk, thanks for all you do, I apologize if anything I said offends you, that's NEVER my intention. 

Your sparky friend,  John T 

Edited September 1, 2020 by oldjohnt