who has commercial California registration

[RKMoezee]

Ok I know I've asked this question differently a few times. But this time I want to ask anyone that has registered a HDT in California as a commercial truck. Which I believe now is the only way. Do you just go to DMV with title, weight ticket and VIN verification if truck not from this state and registered. I'm looking at a California truck and the reg's are not clear to me if DMV is going to want anything else to register the truck. I wont have a DOT # or the CHP#  Does DMV need anything else to get registered. I know i'm not commercial but want to avoid any problems at DMV. What all is involved has anyone done this? My next choice is register out of state and keep out of state but that's my #2 just because I want to single and build a box and bed and need the access. Thanks again Ron

[Steve from SoCal]

I can't answer your question directly, I just did a quick what's it on the DMV website.    Using a 2011 truck with a single rear axle and a combination weight of 40K registration was 1288.00 based on a value of 24K 

 

The DMV will register the truck, you will not have to have a Ca or USDOT number to register, now how that plays out long term IDK.     Because California considers ALL trucks commercial you would need a CDL and either elog or local exemption.   

 

On edit I think you will need to join a testing consortium 

 

Steve

[DesertMiner]

 Do you need a HDT so badly and in such a short time frame you are willing to do this with so many “ what if’s”? What about CARB requirements? What about a CDL? What about Elogs? What about ???? There are methods for importing a HDT registered as a RV from other states. There have been two successful cases in just the last couple of months. Why are you wanting all of the possible headaches involved in this madness by going the commercial route?  

On edit I see Steve and I were answering at the same time and I “ borrowed” some of his thoughts..... sorry.

 

[Roger & Margaret]

We are in the process of ordering an HDT that will be registered out of state as a MH.  Once the unit is ready we will be bringing it to CA. 

I contacted Bracken Registration and Tax services in Southern CA, who used to register HDT's at MH in CA, but are no longer able to do so.  However, they also confirmed that if an HDT is already registered as a MH in another state, they would simple be registering an out of state MH, and they don't see any problem with that.

Looking over the regulations, I don't see anyway to register as an HDT, and not be subject to all the commercial regulations.  You might want to consider the same approach we are taking.

 

[JPL]

iddy     The expense of having the truck titled as a truck would make me want to do anything but that! Cold you wait till you found a truck already titled as a MH or would Calif honor that out of State MH title? In Va I bought the Volvo from a man In Minn and had him fax a copy of the title to me . Then took it to the DMV and asked if they would honor that MH title. They said yes. Then I had him drive the truck down here and then we made the deal. Va was and is very hard to deal with if you want to convert in state.

 

i got my CDL after I got the truck. When I went to take the Road test I had the 5er hooked up to the truck and used it for the road test. I hope you get to work something out because once you tow with a real truck you won't go back to a little truck!   Pat 

The Old Sailor

[Chad Heiser]

There are other problems with registration as a “truck” in CA.  You will be required to stop at scales.  There is no way out of it with an HDT registered as anything other than a motorhome.  I can share all of the applicable code sections with you, but I need to get in front of a real computer to do it (it’s too hard on my iPad right now).  Not to mention potential insurance issues.

[Roger & Margaret]

15 hours ago, Chad Heiser said:

I can share all of the applicable code sections with you, but I need to get in front of a real computer to do it (it’s too hard on my iPad right now).  Not to mention potential insurance issues.

iddy,

Chad may be referring, at least in part, to the info in this post.

http://www.rvnetwork.com/topic/121829-california-hdt-registration/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-907224

[RKMoezee]

16 hours ago, Chad Heiser said:

There are other problems with registration as a “truck” in CA.  You will be required to stop at scales.  There is no way out of it with an HDT registered as anything other than a motorhome.  I can share all of the applicable code sections with you, but I need to get in front of a real computer to do it (it’s too hard on my iPad right now).  Not to mention potential insurance issues.

Thanks Chad for the reply. These other things are the one's i don't know about. I have my Class A and was planning to avoid way stations like the plague ( back roads to state border on trips) And i figured the insurance would just be more expensive? My wanting to get the truck into CA is I want to start working on it to convert it. Single the truck and get it ready for a RV life. I have a  friend with a ranch to keep it on and would limit my CA road exposure. Chad I'm coming to the WCR and if you have time I would love to bend your ear about this. Roger & Margaret i've been following your story and interested in any news of your quest to HDT. And Steve I'm trying to find the statues that say I wouldn't need CA or USDOT #  As far as i can tell in the books anything in CA over 26K your all commercial. I see alot of people having books on the states registration reg's and putting CA together it looks like I hit a road block at this weight. I'm starting to think I register in another state and keep it there but that make logistics a nightmare. Thanks everyone for the input

[JPL]

iddy    Could you just keep it at your friends ranch? Is the ranch big enough to hid the truck? Tag it in some other state and hope for the best. One of the states you could get a LLC. But then you would always be looking over your shoulder. Tough to win. I wish you the beat of luck no matter what you decode.    Pat

 

 

The Old Sailor

[Chad Heiser]

There are exemptions for personal use of trucks up to a GVWR of 26000 lbs in CA.  Once you go over 26000 lb GVWR, the exemptions disappear and you have to run full commercial rules in CA.  It is just the way the laws are written.  It sucks for our desired usage, but they didn’t have us in mind when the laws were written.  The only way around this is an RV title.  There is no legal way to convert an HDT to an RV title in CA, but there is a loophole in that a few people have been able to bring out of state converted titles into CA and get them registered as motorhomes.  The written and case law clearly does not allow this, but it has been happening anyway.  It is the best shot currently to get an HDT “RV”in CA.

i will be happy to talk to you in detail about this at the WCR.  I will have all the relevant code sections and case law with me there (I keep them all in a word document and printed in a file).

[Vegas Teacher]

Or you could leave the state of California LOL!!!

[RKMoezee]

20 hours ago, JPL said:

iddy    Could you just keep it at your friends ranch? Is the ranch big enough to hid the truck? Tag it in some other state and hope for the best. One of the states you could get a LLC. But then you would always be looking over your shoulder. Tough to win. I wish you the beat of luck no matter what you decode.    Pat

 

 

The Old Sailor

That's my plan B after I check if there's any way possible to do it regularly. But its getting to look more like that may be the best plan. But i got a little while to get as much information as possible. I don't retire for another 3 years and a few. Thanks

[RKMoezee]

10 hours ago, Vegas Teacher said:

Or you could leave the state of California LOL!!!

That is the plan the day I retire. Truck will be packed and I told the wife she better be in the truck if she's going with me.

[Vegas Teacher]

16 hours ago, iddy said:

That is the plan the day I retire. Truck will be packed and I told the wife she better be in the truck if she's going with me.

I like to visit northern California, I am not a fan of southern California, however I have to go there ever two weeks for a great trainer named Ted Hartman, who does bite work with my puppy.

[jenandjon]

On 4/9/2018 at 7:32 PM, iddy said:

That is the plan the day I retire. Truck will be packed and I told the wife she better be in the truck if she's going with me.

Reminds me of the show everyone loves Raymond. I pull this AIS stuff with my wife. It does not work. Works great with my kids tho!

 

Raymond "Ray" Barone: Let me tell you. My father had a system: AIS. Like whenever we'd go somewhere, he'd set a time and he'd be like: "We're leaving. 9:00, AIS!"

Debra Barone: AIS?

Raymond "Ray" Barone: Ass In Seat. Whoever's ass was not in their seat at the designated time, that ass was left behind.

[LostSoul]

I was living in California when I retired. I licensed mine as a MH under an LLC in MT. I kept it in a storage lot for about two years while I modified it. I drove as needed. 

Commercial registration requires that you have authority, file IFTA reports and pay fuel taxes. Also you must maintain files in accordance with federal and california guidance including participation in pull notice and a drug consortium. Then there are logs, annual inspections, and routine record reviews done by CHP. Tags used to cost about $800 a year for California only. For additional states you must run an apportioned tag and purchase each additional state. All 48 purchased at the same time as the tag, costs about $2000. And we haven’t talked about commercial insurance yet.

Im sure there’s more. 

[Pappy Yokum]

Lost Soul - an LLC in CA is inviting *major* problems!  If you slid under the radar, that's great.  Others have not been so fortunate - with disastrous (financial) consequences..

Call it a Limited Liability "Company" or "Corporation".  In CA the LLC is a commercial enterprise.  Like it or not, you're commercial.

Besides all the other hoops to jump thru with a "normal" Commercial Registration, the annual license fee is based on the load carrying capacity of the truck.  That part of the annual fee never changes (as the vehicle ages).

Ex:  One ton SB pickup is $225.  The license fee portion will decrease as the vehicle gets older, but not the $225.

Hint:  Never tried this on an MDT or HDT, but if you or your significant other is handicapped (and on the registration), the weight portion can be waived (for *one* vehicle).  Know for sure that's a fact for pickups (mine).  The pickup still has commercial registration & handicapped plates.  That would be a nice chunk of change for an MDT or HDT!  = (but still require logs, scales, etc.)

Didn't used to be a problem, but now In CA, folks with MDTs as tow vehicles are few and far between,  due to fees and requirements for/with commercial status - and of course, no chance to qualify as a MH .

Way better to register it (HDT) out of state as a MH - and bring it into CA as a MH

.

 

.

 

 

 

[CampClownPete]

On 4/7/2018 at 8:55 PM, Roger & Margaret said:

We are in the process of ordering an HDT that will be registered out of state as a MH.  Once the unit is ready we will be bringing it to CA. 

I contacted Bracken Registration and Tax services in Southern CA, who used to register HDT's at MH in CA, but are no longer able to do so.  However, they also confirmed that if an HDT is already registered as a MH in another state, they would simple be registering an out of state MH, and they don't see any problem with that.

Looking over the regulations, I don't see anyway to register as an HDT, and not be subject to all the commercial regulations.  You might want to consider the same approach we are taking.

 

If you bring it to California within one year of ownership, get ready to pay California Sales Tax on your truck!  Keep it from being registered in California for 13 months!

[Roger & Margaret]

Yes, we are expecting to pay CA tax.  It's the price we will have to pay if we don't want to wait to use our truck for over a year.

Someday we will reside elsewhere, but for now we will just have to pay the price to live here.

[jenandjon]

So can you drive older trucks in CA with RV plates even though they don't meet emission standards. I would not be allowed to run CA with my HDT as commercial.

[Roger & Margaret]

RVs in CA are not required to meet the same emission standards as commercial trucks.  So, if your HDT is registered as an RV then you should be allowed to run in CA.

[Morelli]

I have a ca commercial reg ....  what can I help with ??

[Morelli]

Here is the current smog regs for California ....  see attached file.  If memory is working correctly today, this applies to everything that runs in California (commercial and/or private)  For diesel, the point of waiver is past for diesel engines (except for certain size tractors) that require emission retrofit if operating commercially in California ....  that means if you come into California with a load and/or operate in California, you have be DPF setup.  There are more change coming soon from what I hear !  What joy !!

Smog_Check_Requirements_by_Vehicle_Type copy.pdf

[Pappy Yokum]

22 hours ago, Roger & Margaret said:

Yes, we are expecting to pay CA tax.  It's the price we will have to pay if we don't want to wait to use our truck for over a year.

Someday we will reside elsewhere, but for now we will just have to pay the price to live here.

What CC Pete is suggesting would seem to be just what you want to do.....USE  it.

CA residents may take possession of vehicles, vessels, and aircraft out of state and not pay sales tax *IF*  the RV remains out of state for one year.  You will be required to provide receipts (etc.) to the Franchise Tax Board, to prove you were actually *USING*  the vehicle (not storing it).

For cars, (IIRC) it also had to have a minimum of 7500 miles on the odo before it could qualify - and of course, be CA (or 50 state) smog compliant.

Unless something changed recently, the CA "90 day rule'" (now one year) has been in effect for a long, long time . Two of my (retired) neighbors both bought MHs in 2005 (90 day then) - & paid zero sales tax.

Unfortunately, "USING" an RV  didn't work well for CA folks who were still working, and couldn't spend lots of time outside of CA.  (without some ahhh - "subterfuge"). For retired folks = easy & legal !) 

(IMO) The Franchise Tax board (the "BOE") would expect the MH ( in this case "former" HDT)  to be registered to use "somewhere".

They did  ask the one neighbor if he had registered his MH  "somewhere".  He didn't & they were OK with that (but it was 90 days then) - they even complimented him on his plethora of receipts & log of his travels.

Sure saves a serious chunk of $$ with CA sales tax around 9 percent (or more in some counties)!..

.

 

 

 

[Roger & Margaret]

14 hours ago, Pug said:

Here is the current smog regs for California ....  see attached file.  If memory is working correctly today, this applies to everything that runs in California (commercial and/or private)  For diesel, the point of waiver is past for diesel engines (except for certain size tractors) that require emission retrofit if operating commercially in California ....  that means if you come into California with a load and/or operate in California, you have be DPF setup.  There are more change coming soon from what I hear !  What joy !!

Smog_Check_Requirements_by_Vehicle_Type copy.pdf

You're right, a smog check is required for most diesel engines if you are registered in CA.  I had a 05 Ram, my father has an 06 MH, both require smog, but that does not apply to anyone just driving through.  They don't do smog checks at the border, and they don't require you to have a 2010 compliant engine to run in this state.

It's also a practical matter.  A few months ago, I spoke to a friend of mine who is a CHP commercial inspector because I was concerned about the impact to my business and my older trucks.  He told me that the Air Resource Board who is pushing these 2010 engine compliance standards, currently does not have a means to enforce them.  According to him, the CHP is not enforcing this, and neither is the DMV when you re-register. 

I also spoke to an insurance broker he recommended, who almost exclusively deals with commercial vehicles and she told me that two of the largest insurance companies she deals with is telling her that nearly 90% of the commercial vehicles they insure would not pass the 2010 engine compliance standards.  Just looking around, I think 90% may be to low.

The bottom line, if the Air Resource Board could wave a magic wand and wipe all the older vehicles off the streets of CA they would, but they can't and it's no likely to happen anytime soon.  Just imagine the economic impact to this state if all these vehicles were suddenly shut down.