Good news for HDT's in CA (maybe)

[Roger & Margaret]

As I mentioned in my introduction post, we live in San Jose, CA, and due to commitments and ties we have here, we won't be leaving CA anytime soon.

 

If you're a CA resident, getting CA plates on an HDT RV has been known to be challenging.  I've done my homework including reading the relevant CVC sections, reading a number of posts on this forum, as well as, the Heavy Haulers RV Resource Guide, and whatever else I could find.

 

Chad had a very informative post that highlighted CVC sections, 655, 260, and 362.  I'm not going to put all the text here, but basically these sections explain why HDT's can not be converted, and registered as a motorhome in CA.

 

On Feb 18, Brad posted a reply to the topic, "cali registration" By iddy, that he got his CA plates (BTW, congrats Brad).  From what I have read on this forum, he was the first one (at least recently) to register an out of state HDT that had already been titled as a MH.  So, I decided to call Bracken Tax and License Service, and spoke to a very nice lady named Bambi.  She confirmed they are no longer doing conversion registrations, but when I asked her about transferring an HDT MH registration from another state, she said that should not be a problem, and they would be able to do that.

 

I went back, and read the CVC's again, and I believe the key is they will not convert an HDT to a MH, but an out of state MH is not relevant to these particular CVC codes since it is no longer a truck tractor.

 

Mind you this is still a gray area, and open to interpretation, but I think this approach does have merit, and now, thanks to Brad, we have a successful test case.

 

Please let me know if I'm missing anything, or if I'm just a wishful CA resident.

 

[Brad NSW]

Most, if not all states have reciprocal licensing agreements...meaning they recognize what other states do.

Therefore a motorhome licensed and registered as a MH out of state should be able to be registered as a MH in CA.

I don't recommend trying to navigate a DMV (took them 2 hours to figure out how to get me a Class A non-commercial license) with something this unique.  We hired a VIN verifier to verify the VIN as an out of state registered MH and they took it in and did the registration.  4 days later we had the plates/registration.

Brad

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Brad, that will depend on the state. Florida will NOT allow a motorhome to use a fifth wheel at all. You can register the truck as a motor home but you are only allowed to bumper pull with it. It makes no difference if it is titled as a motorhome in Georgia and transferred to Florida next door, the fifth wheel will need to come off or it needs to be registered as a private truck.

[Roger & Margaret]

Thanks Brad,

I feel pretty confident that this will work out, and we can move forward with our plans to purchase an HDT, and yes, I will definitely use a service when it's time to register.

[NeverEasy]

Roger, SD and TX will register as MH and there are services in both states to let you do that without having to go there.  You could title it out of state and then re-title in CA.

Chet

[Roger & Margaret]

Now that I know it can be done, our HDT will be titled as a MH before we bring it back to CA, then we'll transfer the title.

[Chad Heiser]

I had been waiting for someone to buy an out of state HDT “motorhome” and bring it to CA and register it to see what would happen.  I’m glad to see Brad was able to get it done.  I agree using a service is the best route to take.  Going into a DMV by yourself is a crapshoot.  It appears there is a loophole that hopefully some others in CA can take advantage of (at least until CA catches on).

I still worry every year when my registration comes do.  I’m always relieved when I get the renewal notice and just pay my registration.

[Hot Rod]

This is maybe not a parallel situation, but...   In the old car world, getting a legit title for an old barn/junkyard find has been an issue since forever.  You find a hulk of a rusty body shell and buy it from some farmer, but even though the serial numbers are there, the title was lost or never existed two generations ago, and you bought it on a bill of sale, which does you no good to go get a license plate.  There are technically legal / quasi-shady title services located in a few states that you could "sell" the car (or shell of a car) to, they were able to get a clean title in their state, and "sell" it back to you.  Used to be able to find these vendors on Hemmings Motor News and other publications that catered to the classic car hobby.

Point being, I'm wondering if you can "sell" a truck to an entity in a state that does allow motorhome conversion of a hdt, do the title change there, and "buy" it back.  Then you are going to the dmv with a clean out of state motorhome title and should be no issue for licensing.  Maybe the same kind of dodge nevereasy was suggesting above?

 

On a separate subject mentioned here, how does Florida define a fifth wheel hitch and exempt it as a motorhome?  I've seen it defined as the towing vehicle carrying a portion of the towed vehicles weight.  Which as big5ver has pointed out should also apply to a bumper pull trailer, even a little kayak trailer.  So is it the physical flat fifth plate?  If so would something like a gooseneck ball conversion on a trailer saver make it legal?  Is it the position of the hitch several feet behind the axle like a traditional bumper pull hitch the issue?  If so then most of the hdt's here have the hitch as far or farther back than the typical ldt bumper hitch.  Would something like Steve Dixon's rig be Florida legal?  Absolutely massive trailer and same hdt, but technically a bumper pull trailer (even though it is really sort of a fifth wheel design with a big basement and a lower level hitch), way bigger and heavier rig than the average hdt/fifth rig on here, but it would be legal?  Just wondering how exactly and who makes that call?

In both cases, gotta love that government bureaucracy that knows nothing about the world they are regulating...

[Chad Heiser]

1 hour ago, Hot Rod said:

On a separate subject mentioned here, how does Florida define a fifth wheel hitch and exempt it as a motorhome?  I've seen it defined as the towing vehicle carrying a portion of the towed vehicles weight.  Which as big5ver has pointed out should also apply to a bumper pull trailer, even a little kayak trailer.  So is it the physical flat fifth plate?  If so would something like a gooseneck ball conversion on a trailer saver make it legal?  Is it the position of the hitch several feet behind the axle like a traditional bumper pull hitch the issue?  If so then most of the hdt's here have the hitch as far or farther back than the typical ldt bumper hitch.  Would something like Steve Dixon's rig be Florida legal?  Absolutely massive trailer and same hdt, but technically a bumper pull trailer (even though it is really sort of a fifth wheel design with a big basement and a lower level hitch), way bigger and heavier rig than the average hdt/fifth rig on here, but it would be legal?  Just wondering how exactly and who makes that call?

In both cases, gotta love that government bureaucracy that knows nothing about the world they are regulating...

Florida is quite specific and even has pictures in their regulations to spell out exactly what can be classified as a motorhome and what cannot.  A truck conversion is fine as long as there is no 5th wheel hitch.  Someone posted the actual regulations a while back with the pictures.  A bumper pull hitch is allowed, but a hitch above the frame is not (ie 5th wheel).  They do not want a motorhome towing a trailer that rests its weight on the frame like with a truck tractor.  Steve's truck with his Spacecraft pintle hitch trailer would qualify as a motorhome in Florida because his hitch is at the rear and below the frame.  A gooseneck ball would not work either because it rests the weight of the trailer on the frame above the frame line of the tow vehicle.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

The pictures on the Florida site that show the differences include a truck belonging to one of our members on here. David's (Deep Space Lighting) truck is the "correct" HDT on their site.

[Roger & Margaret]

8 hours ago, Hot Rod said:

I'm wondering if you can "sell" a truck to an entity in a state that does allow motorhome conversion of a hdt, do the title change there, and "buy" it back.  Then you are going to the dmv with a clean out of state motorhome title and should be no issue for licensing.  Maybe the same kind of dodge nevereasy was suggesting above?

 

17 hours ago, NeverEasy said:

SD and TX will register as MH and there are services in both states to let you do that without having to go there.  You could title it out of state and then re-title in CA.

In my case, I will not be doing the conversion myself, and will likely have it done out of state.  I do intend to have it titled as a MH before it comes to CA.  The question is, does that conversion process include re-VINing from a truck tractor VIN to a MH VIN?  If not, will CA accept the MH title? I am looking into that.

[RickW]

32 minutes ago, Roger & Margaret said:

In my case, I will not be doing the conversion myself, and will likely have it done out of state.  I do intend to have it titled as a MH before it comes to CA.  The question is, does that conversion process include re-VINing from a truck tractor VIN to a MH VIN?  If not, will CA accept the MH title? I am looking into that.

Just like the conversion process is going to very by state, so is the policy of issuing a new VIN.  Texas for example does not issue a new VIN.  When titling as a motorhome from truck, only the body type on the title is changed. 

[Hot Rod]

2 hours ago, RickW said:

Just like the conversion process is going to very by state, so is the policy of issuing a new VIN.  Texas for example does not issue a new VIN.  When titling as a motorhome from truck, only the body type on the title is changed. 

Ohio is the same.  No vin change, just the classification on the title.  And no inspection either, just an affidavit from the owner that 4 of the 6 items required to be a motorhome have been installed.  Walk into the county courthouse with the old title and the affidavit and walk out 10 minutes later with the new title in hand.  It sounds like that is the exception rather than the rule as states go from folks comments on here though.

 

10 hours ago, Chad Heiser said:

Florida is quite specific and even has pictures in their regulations to spell out exactly what can be classified as a motorhome and what cannot.  A truck conversion is fine as long as there is no 5th wheel hitch.  Someone posted the actual regulations a while back with the pictures.  A bumper pull hitch is allowed, but a hitch above the frame is not (ie 5th wheel).  They do not want a motorhome towing a trailer that rests its weight on the frame like with a truck tractor.  Steve's truck with his Spacecraft pintle hitch trailer would qualify as a motorhome in Florida because his hitch is at the rear and below the frame.  A gooseneck ball would not work either because it rests the weight of the trailer on the frame above the frame line of the tow vehicle.

So it IS the position of the hitch, and not the physical fact of a fifth wheel. 

[HERO Maker]

3 hours ago, Roger & Margaret said:

 

In my case, I will not be doing the conversion myself, and will likely have it done out of state.  I do intend to have it titled as a MH before it comes to CA.  The question is, does that conversion process include re-VINing from a truck tractor VIN to a MH VIN?  If not, will CA accept the MH title? I am looking into that.

I might be missing something here, but I think the value of trucks that are currently titled as MH has just gone up!

But my question is are you able to get an out of state trucks title changed in that state where you don't have a residence?   Sounds like you need to have the seller get the title changed, or purchase one of our fine MH titled trucks for a few more $$.

Just thinking out loud!

[Roger & Margaret]

Being in CA we are not going to take any chances.  We will have our conversion done with a company that is also licensed to do re-VINs, and have it titled in that state as a MH.

[HERO Maker]

Roger, it sounds like you have checked it all out and it will probably work for you.  Good job!

I was just wondering if they are able to get it titled in your name with an out of state address (your address in CA)?

[Roger & Margaret]

5 minutes ago, HERO Maker said:

Sounds like you need to have the seller get the title changed, or purchase one of our fine MH titled trucks for a few more $$.

If all else fails, at least I know where to find some fine MH titled trucks.

These trucks have been re-VINed, right? 

[HERO Maker]

5 minutes ago, Roger & Margaret said:

If all else fails, at least I know where to find some fine MH titled trucks.

These trucks have been re-VINed, right? 

Don't know about the rest of the country, but as Rick White said, in TX it's just a change to MH on the title.  No re-Vin is done.

[Roger & Margaret]

1 minute ago, HERO Maker said:

Roger, it sounds like you have checked it all out and it will probably work for you.  Good job!

I was just wondering if they are able to get it titled in your name with an out of state address (your address in CA)?

Thanks, I'm an old Project Manager, and I believe in 90% preparation, and a 10% smooth execution.

Good question, I'll have to look into that.  However, I don't think it will matter much.  To get our CA plates, we will have to register it in CA with our names and our address anyway. 

[rpsinc]

Not sure if things have changed in CA as to re-registering an HDT.  I helped a buddy out by fabbing and installing tanks in his Freightliner and he was able to use a VIN verifier to confirm that it had all that was needed to convert it to a MH.  He was successful and the registration was pretty reasonable.  This was done is Riverside County, CA.

[Steve from SoCal]

53 minutes ago, Roger & Margaret said:

Being in CA we are not going to take any chances.  We will have our conversion done with a company that is also licensed to do re-VINs, and have it titled in that state as a MH.

I am not sure that anyone doing truck conversions has the ability to do a VIN change?     A second stage body builder can designate the type of vehicle, a company or individual can petition the state to change the status of a VIN.     In changing the status the body type becomes a motorhome or housecar.     As mentioned some states like Fla don't allow a MH to use a fifth wheel, California is of a similar ilk, you CAN build a MH on a semi tractor and register it in California.

The states where a MH is allowed to be a toterhome for lack of a better term are where folks successfully convert trucks.    These states change the body type on the title and registration but, the VIN is unchanged.     That is why insurance companies have a hard time with these as well.      Your idea of having a truck "converted" by a company that issue a new VIN needs more research. 

Steve

 

[Roger & Margaret]

1 hour ago, Steve from SoCal said:

I am not sure that anyone doing truck conversions has the ability to do a VIN change?

I have a company in mind, and have verified that they are licensed to do re-VINs.  They told me they can do them on new trucks, and they are currently working with the state to do them on used trucks as well.  I don't want to violate any commercial rules here, so please PM me if you want their name. 

1 hour ago, Steve from SoCal said:

As mentioned some states like Fla don't allow a MH to use a fifth wheel, California is of a similar ilk, you CAN build a MH on a semi tractor and register it in California.

When I went through the CVC codes I didn't find anything restricting the use of a fifth wheel on a MH, but I could have just missed it.  However, since others are getting their HDT's registered here, with fifth wheel plates, maybe that isn't a problem.

[HERO Maker]

54 minutes ago, Roger & Margaret said:

I have a company in mind, and have verified that they are licensed to do re-VINs.  They told me they can do them on new trucks, and they are currently working with the state to do them on used trucks as well.  I don't want to violate any commercial rules here, so please PM me if you want their name. 

 

Roger, no problem suggesting other commercial enterprises as long as you don't have an ownership interest in them.  Just look at the Resource Guide.  Lots of suggested companies there.

That would be info that we all would like to know.  Good and BAD!

[Roger & Margaret]

HERO Maker, thanks for clarifying the rules.  Of course you're right, I should have known that.

I'm working with RVH, they are licensed in the state of Kansas to do re-VINs.