What to do.. clutch related

PEIFamily · April 16, 2017

Well, A bit confused at my clutch.. 13 speed Eaton Fuller.

Last fall I had it at the volvo dealer for a quick maintenance adjustment when they were doing the computer reprogramming.. They said the clutch was seized and wouldn't adjust it.

Clutch has about 300k miles on it but from eastern Canada. It has an ONE piece brake.

Second shop had no problem adjusting it the best they could (due to the brake wear) and said I needed a new brake as my old one is missing a pad on one side and needs to be changed asap before it wears the nose cone. - They said if needed, they could put a thicker brake in. They couldn't get it into the shop at that time before I was leaving the state.

Third shop, I went to get the brake changed and they said the clutch was gone and it would be a waste to put a new brake on as it would only last a few uses..

Took the truck back to the park and parked it until I need to make the trip home (2000 miles) this upcoming Thursday.

I priced the replacement and can get it replaced at a shop I use at home for about $800 cheaper then locally here.

My plans were to stop at KYClutch on the way home and pick up a rebuilt clutch/bearing/2 part brake then get it installed at home.

I decided to have a look at it today and I can't really see the clutch friction disks, but I do see the clutch brake. It has the friction pads on the side facing the clutch/throw out bearing and couldn't see the other side, I did feel and look at the nose cone, I don't see any wear on it. (Clutch looks like it is adjusted to the 1/2" spec)

I have not felt the clutch slip at all at any time driving, the reason I originally had it checked out was that sometimes it lightly grinds when first putting it into gear, but not always and that I wasn't sure when it had been adjusted last. (Since it was there getting the speed reprogrammed, I thought I may as well get it adjusted for maintenance).

It has the hydraulic clutch and a few of the places were talking about how much of a pain it is due to the opening, so I am wondering if they just didn't want to deal with the mess of cutting it off? lol

Question is:

Since I have not ever felt the clutch slip, should I bother replacing it? I agree I do need a clutch brake, but unsure about what the third shop meant by the brake would only last a few times if replaced.? If the clutch was gone, wouldn't it would start slipping when accelerating?

I put about 5,000-10,000 miles on it a year.

Trying to debate if I should get the rebuilt clutch on the way home and by the time I install it, I could be up to about $1500-2k, vs $200 for a brake cutoff/install. Hate to bother replacing the clutch if there is plenty more life in it especially for the amount we drive it.

Thanks

Jason

Alie&Jim's Carrilite · April 16, 2017

I would go to a shop that you trust local to you at home. When you engage the clutch ie- push the clutch in, it may take 5-10 seconds for the clutch brake to slow the shaft. I'm assuming you float the gears, maybe use the clutch to make a downshift to get out of the gear but that's it.

If it's not slipping under hard acceleration then I would guess it's ok. Pumping the clutch pedal several times should help the auto adjust..... adjust.

PEIFamily · April 16, 2017

9 minutes ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

I would go to a shop that you trust local to you at home. When you engage the clutch ie- push the clutch in, it may take 5-10 seconds for the clutch brake to slow the shaft. I'm assuming you float the gears, maybe use the clutch to make a downshift to get out of the gear but that's it.

If it's not slipping under hard acceleration then I would guess it's ok. Pumping the clutch pedal several times should help the auto adjust..... adjust.

I think that is some of my problem, I only wait a few seconds ago most before trying to engage. I do floating all the time and only a few times had to give a slight depress to break torque to pull out of gear. I think I killed the brake the first time I drove it by putting the clutch down switching from 1 to 2 without thinking when I first got it. But not sure job easy the last owner was on it.

Thanks

NoDirectionHome · April 16, 2017

Some clutch brake replacement / fix ideas around 12:50 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlTLx1aNyWY

PEIFamily · April 16, 2017

32 minutes ago, NoDirectionHome said:

Some clutch brake replacement / fix ideas around 12:50 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlTLx1aNyWY

I remember watching that video before but forgot about it. Thanks! I like the fiber washer idea lol

Jeff.Sloan · April 16, 2017

I have the hydro clutch on my Eaton 10-speed. It is a PITA to adjust, but I was able to do it. The fork hangs below the shaft and is majorly in the way. First I had to get the engine in the perfect spot to even gain access to the clutch adjustment bolt. It took 15-20 engine kicks to get it to land at the right spot. Once the clutch bolt was accessible, I too thought at first the clutch adjustment bolt was seized, but it has to be pushed in HARD the first time to break free and depress inward. I think I used a pry bar on the back of a ratchet to get enough pressure for it to release. Then I could only turn the adjustment bolt a couple grooves at a time (less than 1/8 full rotation each time) due to the tiny access hole and hydraulic fork being in the way. Lots of work and patience, but I was able to adjust the clutch myself and save the cost of a full clutch replacement. I think it took me a 2-3 hours to get it all done right. In case it helps, My 2004 had 686k miles on it.

P.S. Get the air assist clutch servo, you will love it! 40%-60% reduction in shifting force required.

adept99 · April 16, 2017

The self adjusting clutch (can't remember the mfg right now) usually winds up getting fouled with road dirt & crap and then fails to adjust properly. If the clutch isn't slipping and it isn't seized (works at a red light) but doesn't want to go into gear, the issue is likely the clutch brake as you've said.

Not a real big problem. Use a fire ax (you WILL have a small fire, be prepared), or an air chisel to remove the original disk and install a new two piece. The trick is to use a very slightly thicker disk. For example, going from memory, I think the OEM disk is .038, and the next step up is .045. If you install that without cutting the flywheel, the clutch won't release. However, if you can get the boys at KY Clutch to take a few extra minutes to dig around and find a disk in the .040 to .041 range, that will give you the right pedal throw, and the clutch brake will work as advertised.

Ky Clutch is about 6 miles up the road from me. They weren't real excited about rummaging around trying to find what is essentally an out of spec part, but they did it and it works like a charm.

One more thing. Despite what anyone tells you, per the manufacturer, the hydraulic clutch linkage is NOT adjustable. You can set it to Factory Spec, but there is no process or procedure to actually adjust the clutch. Yes, you can jiggle the linkage, but the main clutch won't last if you do. Using the funny little tool to break the self adjuster loose is a helluva lot of work for something that won't last very long in the grand scheme of things.

PM me or find me at the ECR if you want the whole ugly story.

Jeff.Sloan · April 17, 2017

My EP2000 definitely clutch can be (and was) adjusted. I agree that the hydraulic clutch linkage is NOT adjustable. As the clutch wears, more brake fluid drops from the reservoir past the clutch master cylinder to make up the void. The clutch pedal will - all else being equal - actuate over exactly the same range of motion and pedal position regardless of clutch wear and disk thickness.

Bonus trivia: Best/easiest way to bleed the hydraulic clutch linkage is in reverse. Pressurize the slave cyl and push fluid through the system in reverse until the clutch master cylinder reservoir is full. Any fluid pump will generate enough pressure to do this. $7 hand pump trans fluid fillers work fine.

adept99 · April 17, 2017

Just to be clear, I agree that the Clutch can be "adjusted", but it is a self adjusting (usually) unit anyway and the adjustment serves to re-zero the self adjusting feature. Unfortunately, in many cases, re-setting the self adjusting feature doesn't last since it will load up with grime & grit again. That said, at 10 to 20 thousand miles a year, it may take a few years to stop functioning properly.

The intent of my statement was to inform those folks that even though there are forks, threaded rods, and other wherewithall that would typically be found on an adjustment linkage system, the product literature for the new master cylinder I installed was very specific about not changing the dimensions.

The new master cylinder wasn't really needed, thank you parts guy. And holding the slave upside down works pretty well for bleeding.

Good luck

Paul

sclord2002 · April 17, 2017

Paul, I don't know why I keep listening to you. I tried bleeding my clutch slave cylinder while holding it upside down and all that happend was that all my blood ran to my head, making me dizzy and my dog looked at me real funny during the process. Looking forward to seeing you guys at the ECR. [Mostly Daisy.......] Your ECR neighbor, Charlie.

dan412 · April 28, 2017

I'm having the same problem with my clutch. Doesn't slip yet but has no free play is there someway to free up the self adjust part.

adept99 · April 30, 2017

Seems to me there is a way to adjust the free play in the clutch pedal, but is was a very small amount and pretty touchy. I'll have to go back and look at some of the information I collected about doing this. The clutch brake will affect it somewhat, and way more than seems reasonable for the amount of change input. .005 will give you a bit less than 1" of travel at the top of the pedal stroke.

Jeff.Sloan · May 1, 2017

On 4/27/2017 at 8:00 PM, dan412 said:

I'm having the same problem with my clutch. Doesn't slip yet but has no free play is there someway to free up the self adjust part.

Are you referring to the adjustment on the clutch pressure plate or somewhere else (on the pedal)?

dan412 · May 1, 2017

Its a self adjusting clutch I think its called a Eaton solo there is no adjustment bolt on the pressure plate. There is a slot that has new on one end and replace on the other. There suppose to be a way to reset it

Wrknrvr · May 1, 2017

You may want to check the pin that connects the slave cylinder to the yoke on the clutch.

When I had to rebuild my slave cylinder I dicovered the pin was worn by about a 1/8" . Neither the yoke or the slave cylinder end where really worn. Just the pin.

Always had trouble getting the clutch to stop with the clutch brake until this simple fix.

Really did make quit a difference.

Found a new pin at a farm store for 2 bucks or so.

No adjustment or bleeding the system will correct this problem.

Safe Travels, Vern

Also there is a noticeable difference in the free peddle travel with just replacing the worn pin.

Pete Kildow · June 7, 2017

I ran a tri-axle dump truck. 8 months with a bad clutch. I was told the day I started driving it. The truck would need a clutch any day. I made it the whole haul season. Last trip I felt it slip going up a grade. Now that was grossing 74,000 lbs 26 tons on the back of that tri axle truck. Finished that load out. And ran the truck back empty 97 miles.

That truck had a 13 speed. And I only used the clutch when taking off. With your low weight load. I would try getting it home. And just don't give it a lot of fuel taking off.

Pete