Starter question

[phoenix2013]

Looks like the starter will need to be replaced on my 2000 Volvo 770 with Cummins N-14 engine.

Any tips, access, bolts, tricks, crawl under etc.

My understanding is that model of the starter coming out and going in is critical, something about matching what the ECM is expecting there and bad juju happens if incorrect starter is bolted in. Truth of wife's tale?

[spindrift]

I don't know about bad juju because I've only replaced OEM with OEM (D-R). If you can get your hands on a 1/2" swivel adapter with a couple of long extensions, your day will go much, much better. The 6 point between the engine and the starter body is a challenge. On starter bolts that have never been removed, be very, very careful when loosening. They're steel bolts going into an aluminum gear housing and they can freeze up over time. If you feel any resistance whatsoever, STOP, soak the bolt w/ Kroil and run in back in and out. Use anti-sieze when going back in for final tightening. Unless the sun, moon, earth and your hot tub are all perfectly aligned, you'll have to "clock" the new starter...no biggie. Obviously, it's a heavy bugger so be prepared. Everything is perfectly accessible outside the frame rail while using a comfy knee pad.

[phoenix2013]

Good info!

Explain "clock the new starter", my ignorance barrel is full on that.

[jeffw]

Our new (to-us) truck has been at the shop getting inspected and having a few punch list items taken care of. Apparently the starter decided to die in his lot, which is the best place in my book.

 

The shop owner mentioned he was able to source a gear reduction starter that weighs about half what the old one does. Cost for a new one (vs. rebuilt) was also not bad.

[Dennis M]

Good info!

Explain "clock the new starter", my ignorance barrel is full on that.

 

My guess is he means once the bolts are loose you need to give the starter body a good whack to break it loose. Do that before all the bolts are out so it does not fall.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

I'm thinking that the mounting bolts are in a uniform pattern so that the starter can be mounted in various positions.

Another thing to watch for when removing your old is any shims that might fall out. Just like on the old GM stuff.

[spindrift]

Good info!

Explain "clock the new starter", my ignorance barrel is full on that.

 

There will be an alignment ring mounted to your new starter with, usually, allen head fasteners. The heads of the fasteners will often be covered with plugs. You'll need to align and then fasten the new ring to the new starter in the same alignment as the old. You'll want the new assembly in exactly the same configuration, or "clock" position as the old starter assembly or you risk that the starter solenoid may interfere with the block, wires will no longer reach connection points, etc., etc.

[Phil D]

. . .a gear reduction starter that weighs about half what the old one does. Cost for a new one (vs. rebuilt) was also not bad.

 

That is probably the best advice in the thread to date, Henry. Unless you find a deal on a reman that's so compelling that you can't pass it up, in which case you'll have to replace with a starter that's nearly identical to what you have so that you'll have a core to return, you'll be way ahead to get a gear reduction starter. You'll still have to deal with the weight and bulk of the POS that's coming out, but the far smaller and lighter replacement will be much easier to work with going back in.

[beyerjf]

Phil is on the money. I had a Delco direct drive/solenoid starter OEM on my Freightliner. It gave excellent service but I replaced it with a Denso gear reduction starter, which is the defacto standard on all newer trucks. It cranks a little slower, but will crank and start the truck even if the batteries are low or it is very cold outside. And it weighs half the OEM starter. The leverage provided by the extra gear really helps the reduction in draw. Denso makes a direct replacement, just give them the original starter model number. Any good truck electrical shop should be able to supply one.

[Raquel]

We had our OEM starter replace, after it quit working about 3 years ago, with a Mitsubishi gear reduction starter. Like Jeff said, it turns a little slower but has never failed to crank and start the truck.

[Ronbo]

Denso gear reduction starter and don't look back. I would not be able to lift an OEM starter up into place. Not a problem with the Denso. The 3rd bolt between the starter and engine is difficult to see. Be careful starting your bolts, it is possible to cross thread them. Don't ask.

[Dollytrolley]

Huston my life-long heavy truck and equipment guru is a tough man to pull the wool over his eyes and he carries both direct and gear drive starters for all heavy diesels that gear drive starters are made for.

 

Huston says most folks seem happy with the gear drive starters and they are robust and give good life........what most people do not know is that the gear drive starters have considerably less inrush current at the initial engine engagement so the batteries tend to be less stressed and cable and solenoid switches tend to have less heat and arc stressing as well. For what it is worth Huston has kept track of his larger fleet accounts and he has proof that fleets of identical trucks tend to have noticeably better battery life with gear drive starters.........

 

Huston keeps several thousand heavy starters, generators, alternators and huge stocks of batteries in stock and he has a new gear drive starter at the end of one shelf with a big tag with my name on it........I say Huston my direct drive starter is just fine and the M11 always starts in less than three revs and I have four batteries that are one year old on a battery minder.......Huston smiles and then says "oh ya I know ....BUT .......some day the old direct drive will give up and you will grunt and moan as you will wrench away until that heavy chunk of iron will fall off the engine and IF it don't kill you you will bring into me and I will rebuild it BUT I will put it on the shelf and then I will give you that gear drive starter with your name on it BECAUSE........a old geezer like you will just have enough strength left to get that light weight gear drive up over your head without killing yourself.........Think of it this way.....it's my way of helping you old geezer from hurting yourself.......

 

Some days I feel like Rodney Dangerfield........I get no respect.

 

So if the Dollytrolley pukes a starter it looks like my choice has been made for me........what next .........Depends?

 

Drive on.........(Geared to.......go)

[phoenix2013]

The starter will be addressed tomorrow.

[phoenix2013]

Looks like it could be all electrical not the starter, batteries and the harness.

[phoenix2013]

Not good, this is going to be expensive.

Corroded harness and batteries basically shot, so four new ones for starters. With new batteries starter still goes only click-click, click-click. Hammer pounding has no effect.

New starter obtained, the old sucker was probably there from the day truck was built, the three bolts holding it are basically saying to the impact gun "@#$%* you". The mechanic was not too fond to be working on it laying under the truck on wet dirt (we have no snow but it does rain in Florida). So a series of steps was initiated after that.

 

1. Obtain services of a 38,000 pounds HDT.

 

2. Drag Kechup out from the dirt yard where it was residing (cousin Tommy's place).

 

3. Roll it down to the street where it could be hooked up.

 

4. Block the street off so it could be hooked up, some neighbors were curious, others I don't know.

 

5. Go for about 10 mile trip across the city.

 

6. Arrive at a place where the mechanic has more tools, resources and patience.

 

Second time I used Good Sam towing service and they were stupid and obnoxious as usual. The discussion about "converted semi" got interesting, yes you need to send something big enough to haul a motorhome with air brakes. Is it attached to your fifth? No. Then we don't cover the tow. What kind of stupid idea is that? The fifth is parked a mile away from where this truck is, it's a matched set. The woman insisted that I listen to the entire reasoning for this rule, even though it was stupid, I wasn't interested and she was going to authorize the tow anyway. What Kind of truck is it? It's a Volvo 770 converted semi. Somehow going through the "ranks" it became Volvo 70. Guess what arrived to tow the truck? 1 ton Ford with a hoist. The guy came out of the truck, took one look and started laughing, "let me take a phone picture and send it to my boss". I asked "you got big tows"? "Sure we do, they'll probably send one of the bigger ones just in case". The guy with the big tow, said, "new company took them over, they are idiots, they give us hassle over everything and they don't pay". An hour after the tow he called me on the cell phone, "we got to be on the same page in case they call you, they don't want to pay for winching it out of the yard to hook it up". They didn't call, so I guess they paid.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

That's the type of mess I've been dealing with. New batteries, battery tie bars, alternator to starter cable, starter to battery, and ground cables. Need to make a few more, but it does run better and I'm getting 14.1v to the batteries now. Before it was 11.9-12.2 at best....

Good luck with it.

[phoenix2013]

As Jack and other HDT "veterans" will tell you, HDT ownership requires maintenance and repair funding "reserve". Initial "suggested" reserve was $5K. Then as various folks contributed their "experiences" the suggested reserve was raised to $10K.

Mine was just nipped to a tune of $2,731

[Jack Mayer]

The Reserve Fund is one of the most important aspects of HDT ownership. In the past I have seen new HDT owners "stretch" their purchase budget and then not have sufficient funds to fix all the things they find, or things that "happen". new owners should EXPECT to have repairs. Repairs - NOT maintenance and improvements, or conversion to RV status. There WILL be repairs on any truck, even ones that appear to be in good shape. Things happen - these are complex mechanical devices.

 

My recommendation at this time is to have at least $8K in reserve for REPAIRS ONLY and the 10K Henry stated would be even better. For some people that is not a big issue. For others, it may mean a delay in purchase.

[Dollytrolley]

As Jack and other HDT "veterans" will tell you, HDT ownership requires maintenance and repair funding "reserve". Initial "suggested" reserve was $5K. Then as various folks contributed their "experiences" the suggested reserve was raised to $10K.

Mine was just nipped to a tune of $2,731

 

Oh Henry........my "young" man....... Just how many new fuses does $2,731.00 buy in the Sunshine state these day ?

 

The reserve fund is indeed a doubled edge sword......but not just HDT's need a reserve fund.....the Doctors and hospitals seem to need a large reserve ($50k / ea) seems to work so far....... The sticks & bricks $5k/ ea seems ok.....?Cessna 182 $30k.....(Aerostar $80k....some years more) .......boat $38.00 (two new oars)......

 

Dolly-the-paint-horse........ALL reserves and remaining funds combined......

 

Drive on.........(until "funds" are.........gone......)

[hone eagle]

I always remember 'how many truck payment have I not made'?

2,731 is about 4 months worth.