propane with Smart

[lappir]

A (propane) forklift runs on liquid propane. Our appliances run on gas.

Just so everyone knows. NOTHING runs off of Liquid, it's always gas vapor, when it's burnt. Even Gasoline and diesel are mostly vapor once they reach the combustion chamber. It's near impossible to compress a liquid.

 

Rod

 

I have the horizontal tanks in my trailer. The can be a pain to fill if the person doesn't know how and they are a real pain to change even with the pull out tray. Actually pulling the empty tank isn't much of a problem but hoisting a full one into place can be a chore, especially if the ground isn't quite level near the storage area. Have also had a Propane Dealer refuse to fill more than one 40 lb bottle that was to be transported in an enclosed vehicle. Believe he said it was a Federal Law.

 

rl.

[Jack Mayer]

At the local propane fill yesterday there was a big sign: "Portable tanks must be in upright position and properly secured before leaving the Premises - INCLUDING 100 lb tanks".

[Brad & Jacolyn]

I put my 30's (one at a time) in the front seat of the Smart. Slide the seat back, wrap a blanket around it to protect the dash and stand it between the seat and dash. Easy to reach the handle if needed.

 

Brad

[gjhunter01]

1Rod is correct, nothing runs off liquid propane, only vapor. For a motor scenario the regulator is mounted where the carb would be where as in a typical RV, the regulator is mounted near the tanks.

I believe the Federal law thing is just a dealer CYA. The dealer has no say over how a individual transports a propane bottle. If it's a issue just park off their property when you load your car, I'm not saying this is a safe solution. I don't remember being deputized as a Federal Enforcer when I was in the propane business. I can't imagine going into a private vehicle and removing a propane tank against the owner's will because the tank was being transported not safely. The propane business has the right to refuse to fill a tank, but that is it. You have the right to find another propane dispenser.

Greg

[rdickinson]

Didn't the USN lose 2 subs? I've seen pics where the hull telescope, 1 part inside the other. Also tales of hard hat divers being crushed up into the hard hat due to pressure.

When I learned to Scuba 40 yrs ago, it took time and practice to be able to equalize below 6 or 8 ft. Something about the wt of 1 atmosphere.

 

I always thought the same but now I wonder.

[Darryl&Rita]

1Rod is correct, nothing runs off liquid propane, only vapor. For a motor scenario the regulator is mounted where the carb would be where as in a typical RV, the regulator is mounted near the tanks.

I believe the Federal law thing is just a dealer CYA. The dealer has no say over how a individual transports a propane bottle. If it's a issue just park off their property when you load your car.

Greg

Back to propane school for you.

[noteven]

Compare propane and gasoline/gasohol ignited inside a car - (after 4 mins of video)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1hS7P7Tt0M

[oscarvan]

I have a healthy respect for propane. I've seen what it can do when things go pear shaped. But, a leak is unlikely. The biggest danger is that it turns into a projectile inside the vehicle.

 

Holding on to a bottle with one hand while driving will do NOTHING when the G-forces go through the roof. Seat belts are designed to restrain humans, not gas bottles. Odds are the thing will become airborne. With luck it will exit the vehicle in front, from the passenger side or from the rear.

 

Yes, some places will not let you take the bottle if you try to do put it inside the vehicle, on it's side or not properly secured.

 

I have three 100 pounders. I get them to the filling station in an ex-mil trailer. I fabricated a gantry with a chain hoist which allows me to get the full ones up and in there, then they get strapped to the front (steel) bulkhead. When needed I bring my 30 pounders along.

 

If I was full time and in one place more than a fill up interval I'd have some sort of rack/cage that would fit in a receiver hitch on TV or Toad. Otherwise pull into a Tractor Supply/U-haul and take the bottles out of their storage compartment and have them filled.

[Broncohauler]

We have HDTs why would you want to put it in your car??

Take the truck or it might as well be a class A dp

If you really need to use your car, build a rack.

[gjhunter01]

Back to propane school for you.

 

You are correct, the Railroad Commission Of Texas requires training updates every 2 years and I am due now to maintain my certification.

People should be safe in transporting a propane tank. But I see it every day and there is nothing I can do other than remind people to transport the tank safely. Another thing is you hand people their tank, don't put it in the vehicle for them.

[RoosterBooster]

We have HDTs why would you want to put it in your car??

Take the truck or it might as well be a class A dp

If you really need to use your car, build a rack.

 

lol .... but even when i take the truck it is a PITA to transport them

lifting them onto the bed and strapping down is a strain (milk crates do work wonders to make the tanks less tippy)

 

sadly i do not have the space/capacity for a car anyway ...

so i`m thinking about building myself a little single torsion axle all aluminum trailer to tow behind a street legal ATV or UTV

basically fixed bedsides with 3 compartments; 2 x 30# bottles and one for groceries

to compliment the setup i plan also on a tow-able/ portable black tank to drag to the dump

 

rural AZ is easy to get A/UTV`s street legal ...

if i`m in another state i just take my chances to get pulled over

its not that i plan on hitting the highway or go long distances

[RoosterBooster]

hmmm... googling for ideas i found this;

 

 

yeah; scratch the fixed sides....

folding sides so that i can store it upright in the garage next to the ATV makes more sense

 

i guess a light weight trailer like that would also be a good idea behind a Smart ?!?

 

especially for hauling "dirty" stuff like firewood etc

[rickeieio]

Some time back, there was a discussion about a "... toter", a two wheeled contraption that fastened to the rear of a vehicle to haul more cargo. It had a pair of crazy wheels out back. Something like that on a smart may work.

 

That said, smarts aren't designed to function as trucks.

[Buscrusher]

https://plus.google.com/104336768965074800771/posts/Mdyj4Jcok1g

 

I pulled this little trailer about 4000 miles as you see it. The trailer itself was originally set up to pull behind a Honda Gold Wing motorcycle. It has the swiveling hitch ball, which works out really well, such as when you pull into a driveway. The car twists enough that I think it might exceed the limits of how far the ball itself will turn. With this configuration I barely knew it was back there on level ground.

[the sailor]

I have 40# bottles and have put them in the back of my Smart (one at a time) to refill for the last two years, lay on side & secure, have had no problems and NO one has refused to fill them........Happy New Year to all !!

[Jack Mayer]

I have 40# bottles and have put them in the back of my Smart (one at a time) to refill for the last two years, lay on side & secure, have had no problems and NO one has refused to fill them........Happy New Year to all !!

As others have said, you really should not lay them down. But you can certainly get away with it. Perhaps forever, perhaps not. The reason to store upright is to ensure the relief valve has vapor at it - not liquid. I believe that is the only reason....but there may be some others...

[the sailor]

I don't store them on their side, just transport and it mostly last from 10 to 20 min. We had propane bottles on the boat for 10 years with out problems, they were all over the place when we had rough crossing.....stay safe !

[GoldRush]

I have a healthy respect for propane. I've seen what it can do when things go pear shaped. But, a leak is unlikely. The biggest danger is that it turns into a projectile inside the vehicle.

 

Holding on to a bottle with one hand while driving will do NOTHING when the G-forces go through the roof.

I swear there is a joke in there somewhere!

[rdickinson]

Yesterday, I had both my 40# tanks tested and filled. The Service manager was solo that day, 2 workers didn't show up. So I asked point blank about storage and transport. His answers were it didn't matter about transportation, they transported cylinders on their sides all the time. I did refer to a full tank as well. Also he suggested they be put in the cab, one standing in front of the seat the other upright on the seat on cardboard and strapped in.

BTW, I was going to transport the full tanks secured to the truck stack brace.

 

 

The other thing done was recertification, this came up earlier last year and there is a large difference from what a firm in Victoria wanted to charge and what this tool rental outfit did charge which was 15 bucks each. They inspected both for damage, checked to make sure the valves were current and slapped a sticker on each.....done.

 

All this aside, with all the creative folks here, why can't something be made to carry the cylinders?

 

Cobble something together...A platform like BMZ's winch mount which would fit into a receiver. The base big enough to carry 2 cylinders. Add a couple of rings to contain the bases of the side by side tanks. Add an upright shaped like a cross with a couple more rings on the cross pce to secure the tanks.

 

All this could be held together with the same pins with a ring on one end and a detent ball or flip bar on the other. The idea being it could come apart for storage. BMZ's winch platform seemed to be using this or a similar type of pin.

 

My truck has a receiver in the rear bumper, the idea being it would not be necessary to climb up on the deck.

 

Just hope no-one rear ends you on the return.

 

Have I confused everyone?

[Broncohauler]

My bottles go up on the truck bed. But I did build a small locking gas can rack that holds 4- 5ga race jugs that slides into my receiver hitch. It makes life a lot easier for fueling just to take the truck with out the trailer.

Be very easy to build one for 2 propane bottles that can slide into a receiver hitch

[RoosterBooster]

yeah... a rack that slides into the receiver(s) would be easy to build ....

i actually already made one for my generator ;

 

 

 

i used some 2" square tubing in the extra two recievers i have for my stinger crane

 

however, using it for refilling LP bottles kinda slipped my mind (getting old ?!? )

... so i may add a "fold flat" rack for holding 2-3 30lbs bottles upright

would save me lifting them onto the bed (yeah, definitely getting old ! )

[Pappy Yokum]

The propane dealer where I go (U-Haul) will not fill the propane bottles if they see you are transporting them inside the vehicle. So, I bungee them to the hauler bed of my MDT truck in the front corners.

 

 

Hmmmm - maybe the U-Haul dealer hasn't seen the *U-Haul* video on YouTube - "Properly Transporting A Propane Tank" - which shows a gal placing her 20lb bottle in the back of an SUV - and driving to her local friendly U-Haul facility - with appropriate safety precautions to secure the bottle, etc., etc.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IefS49w-s8o

 

Anyway - by whatever, means or method......believe in "Murphy".- and sometimes it's good to disregard the "experts"!

 

Propane "pooling":

 

Years ago, in my former life...."we" (a FD Engine Company in a major So.CA city) received a call for a "gas leak", no fire - but a victim with burns - in a residential neighborhood.

That rated a single Engine and P/medic response.

 

"Assumed" the dispatcher meant a natural gas - or maybe gasoline - leak.

Upon arrival, there was a large (nationally known) tractor-trailer moving van in front of the house.

Nothing looked unusual.

 

Met at the front door by two young guys who were the mover's assistants. . They said the guy with the burns was in the backyard, and the burns were the result of a propane "explosion"..

While walking thru the house with them - they said the odor had been very strong *inside* the house, but they had closed the sliding glass door to the backyard, which had been open.

(turns out that was the only *good* decision they made that day!)

 

Among the last things the movers needed to load was a propane fired BBQ.

The mover told the homeowner they couldn't transport a full propane bottle.......so take the bottle to the middle of the backyard,open the valve, and turn it upside-down - which he did.

 

The backyard was probably 30' x 50' - slightly lower than the adjoining lot to the rear. It had a low decorative border around the perimeter for a planter- which was about two bricks (not block) high.

 

The homeowner - wearing Bermuda shorts and jogging shoes - did as told - and was waiting for the tank to empty.

The heavier-than-air propane (from one 20lb bottle) was able to "pool" in the backyard and "flowed" around the house to the side yard - where there was a spa - - and an ignition source.

 

It flashed across the backyard - inflicting 2nd and 3rd degree burns on the homeowner's ankles and lower legs. His jogging shoes were almost burned off!.

The flash even bent a PVC sprinkler riser about 20' away from where he (and the bottle) were located.

 

Figured I would be giving a deposition for a lawsuit on that one - but never heard anything more.

BTW - that "event" took place in mild weather, the home was about 2 miles from the ocean.- maybe a slight breeze, can't recall.

 

Now - flash (no pun) forward a couple of years - for deja-vu two!!..

 

A family friend (Army Major) was being posted from his assignment with Hughes (Helicopters) in Fullerton, to the Pentagon.

 

A commercial moving company was at their home in So. CA to move the family's furniture and "stuff" to Virginia.

I got a call at work (the FD) from the wife - who was "supervising" the loading of the family's stuff.

 

She said the movers had told her to take the propane bottle for the BBQ - out to the backyard, open the valve, and invert the bottle.

It just didn't sound "right" to her!

 

Smart lady - and....... YIKES!

 

Told her to take the bottle to the Petrolane (bulk Propane) dealer in an adjoining city to purge - or just leave it behind.

 

"Murphy" averted.

 

.