Kinda off topic, need tips on how to remove bolt that spins

[SuiteSuccess]

Dave,

Enough room to get a chisel on the head?  Couple of hits with a two pound sledge may break the head off.

[mr. cob]

3 minutes ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

Dave, Can you put a small cut off wheel on your Die grinder?  If it an air straight shaft die grinder, you may be able to use a half used wheel to cut thru the head/shaft of the bolt you have exposed.  

 

Howdy Jim,

There just not enough room inside of the mount to do as you describe.  I can work at grinding the head of the bolt off that way I can remove the seat, then I will have room to work on getting what is left of the bolt out.

 It is very frustrating to have what should be a very simple job turn into such darned chore, I wasn’t in the Navy so I don’t have the vocabulary to properly articulate how I really feel about this.

Dave

[mr. cob]

11 minutes ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Dave,

Enough room to get a chisel on the head?  Couple of hits with a two pound sledge may break the head off.

Howdy SS,

Its possible I suppose I am just afraid of doing even more damage to what ever type of threads there are that hold the bolt.

 I had hoped that applying lifting force under the mount would allow turning the bolt out, that didn’t work.

Dave

[NDBirdman]

I bought a 90-degree air die grinder many years ago fairly cheap from harbor freight that would work.  A good carbide burr on it would take time but would remove the head a little at a time.

https://www.harborfreight.com/air-angle-die-grinder-32046.html

I think I picked up the burr from NAPA but if I remember right, was around $70 but it has lasted a decade and still works like new.

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by NDBirdman

[mr. cob]

Just now, NDBirdman said:

I bought a 90-degree air die grinder many years ago fairly cheap from harbor freight that would work.  A good carbide burr on it would take time but would remove the head a little at a time.

Howdy NDB,

My die grinder is a straight one but it will work just going to be time consuming and an awful mess all those razor sharp little chips all over the place.

Dave

[NDBirdman]

1 minute ago, mr. cob said:

 an awful mess all those razor sharp little chips all over the place.

Very true.  I would run a shop vac hose under the seat from the other side (?), lay it next to the bolt and suck while it cuts.  Wear goggles, you do not want to lose an eye!

[SuiteSuccess]

Dave,

Back on my chisel suggestion.  I’ve heard of using “canned air” (the stuff to blow dust off your computer), turning the can upside down and spraying til a good layer of frost forms then whacking the now frozen, brittle bolt to pop off the head.  Apparently will break a padlock.

Edited November 24, 2019 by SuiteSuccess

[dan412]

Will a  air chisel fit in there.

[mr. cob]

2 minutes ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Dave,

Back on my chisel suggestion.  I’ve heard of using “canned air” (the stuff to blow dust off your computer), turning the can upside down and spraying til a good layer of frost forms then whacking the now frozen, brittle bolt to pop off the head.  Apparently will break a padlock.

Howdy SS,

That is information I was not aware of, I think I have a can of that stuff, it would sure make life easier if it works.

Dave

[mr. cob]

2 minutes ago, dan412 said:

Will a  air chisel fit in there.

Howdy Dan,

A small one might I don’t have such a tool.

Dave

[dan412]

6 minutes ago, mr. cob said:

Howdy Dan,

A small one might I don’t have such a tool.

Dave

Hi Dave,

If I have time tomorrow I could come over and help you or you can come over and borrow my air chisel.

Dan

[SuiteSuccess]

19 minutes ago, mr. cob said:

Howdy SS,

That is information I was not aware of, I think I have a can of that stuff, it would sure make life easier if it works.

Dave

Just be sure and shake and turn upside down if you try it.  It’s the propellant that freezes.  

[mr. cob]

6 minutes ago, dan412 said:

Hi Dave,

If I have time tomorrow I could come over and help you or you can come over and borrow my air chisel.

Dan

Howdy Dan,

Whilst wrangling with the seat in an attempt to get this bolt to move I have caused a leak in the air line going to the seat, I don't have anything on hand to fix the leak so right now my truck isn't drive-able.  I do have air and enough line to reach the truck, I surly don't want impose but if you have time, the inclination and its not raining I would appreciate your bringing your air tool over and seeing if we can at least get the passenger seat out.  

I have broken all the bolts loose on the drivers seat, before attempting to remove them I am going to soak them in penetrating oil for a week, with luck that should make removing them easier.

All four of the bolts broke free easily on the passenger seat, three came out with little effort, the forth was turning with little effort until it just started spinning.

Dave

[mr. cob]

9 minutes ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Just be sure and shake and turn upside down if you try it.  It’s the propellant that freezes.  

Howdy SS,

Thanks for the clarification, I am not familiar with such things, I have a fire wrench and skilled in its use but other then popping bearings into the freezer have not used cold to get things "break" things loose.

Dave

[Darryl&Rita]

It's not the bolt that's done, I'd bet it's the Nut-sert spinning in the floor. Do whatever it takes to get the seat out of the way, then take care of the floor.

[mr. cob]

3 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

It's not the bolt that's done, I'd bet it's the Nut-sert spinning in the floor. Do whatever it takes to get the seat out of the way, then take care of the floor.

Howdy Darryl,

You might be right however when I had the seat blocked up and turned the bolt I couldn’t see any movement or rotation of the insert.  Getting the seat out will answer the question.

Dave 

[Steve from SoCal]

55 minutes ago, mr. cob said:

Howdy Darryl,

You might be right however when I had the seat blocked up and turned the bolt I couldn’t see any movement or rotation of the insert.  Getting the seat out will answer the question.

Dave 

As I mentioned earlier, the nutset/cage-nut is UNDER the cab.    With a flashlight you should be able to see it even if you can't access it.    The bolt won't unscrew because the nut is spinning, depending on how much corrosion a vise-grip or small pipe wrench MAY hold the now free nut while you remove the bolt.    

 

I have used a vise-grips to do this by myself, there was a feature that trapped the vise-grip.    With no place to anchor the vise-grip you would need two people to remove the bolt.    If the nut is really badly rusted, an abrasive cut off wheel can cut it where you will eventually have to resolve the problem anyway.       Trying to cut the head of the bolt off will remove the seat but, you will still have to deal with the problem on the other side of the floor.     I guess you could hole saw out the whole thing from above and weld in a patch with a new captive nut?       

 

You really need to look at the back/bottom of the fastener stack to understand what your facing.     You could even weld a strap/handle on the nut with good access.      Cutting the head off the bolt first just makes everything else more challenging.

 

Steve   

[mr. cob]

3 minutes ago, Steve from SoCal said:

As I mentioned earlier, the nutset/cage-nut is UNDER the cab.    With a flashlight you should be able to see it even if you can't access it.    The bolt won't unscrew because the nut is spinning, depending on how much corrosion a vise-grip or small pipe wrench MAY hold the now free nut while you remove the bolt.    

 

I have used a vise-grips to do this by myself, there was a feature that trapped the vise-grip.    With no place to anchor the vise-grip you would need two people to remove the bolt.    If the nut is really badly rusted, an abrasive cut off wheel can cut it where you will eventually have to resolve the problem anyway.       Trying to cut the head of the bolt off will remove the seat but, you will still have to deal with the problem on the other side of the floor.     I guess you could hole saw out the whole thing from above and weld in a patch with a new captive nut?       

 

You really need to look at the back/bottom of the fastener stack to understand what your facing.     You could even weld a strap/handle on the nut with good access.      Cutting the head off the bolt first just makes everything else more challenging.

 

Steve   

Howdy Steve,

Thanks for your detailed post.  I agree that cutting the head off the bolt WILL complicate things and I don't want to go that route unless I am left with no choice. I do NOT really know what I am working with here, I do know that in my present condition and without having a way to get the truck up off the ground I can't get under it to see what your talking about. 

I can see that there is some sort of insert in the floor, which I am "assuming" is made from steel.  If I can get the bolt out maybe the easiest way to make a good repair is drill out the insert to accept a coupler nut and just weld the coupler nut  into the insert now in the floor.

Dave

[mr. cob]

Howdy Steve,

As you seem knowledgeable about my problem and my truck I have a question for you.

If I were to cut the head off the bolt, could I use a punch and drive the bolt stud AND the nut what ever type it is out the bottom of the floor leaving a through hole where the bolt and fixed nut used to be?

If that would work I can pretty easily do a repair having some sort of fixed nut on the proper location in the floor.  Thanks for any advice you can share.

Dave

[Steve from SoCal]

1 hour ago, mr. cob said:

Howdy Steve,

As you seem knowledgeable about my problem and my truck I have a question for you.

If I were to cut the head off the bolt, could I use a punch and drive the bolt stud AND the nut what ever type it is out the bottom of the floor leaving a through hole where the bolt and fixed nut used to be?

If that would work I can pretty easily do a repair having some sort of fixed nut on the proper location in the floor.  Thanks for any advice you can share.

Dave

Hi Dave,

 

Unless the entire cage is rotted that is NOT a good idea, you run a real risk of deforming the floor.     The other think with the bolt head sheared is the shank will turn when you try to drill it.    There is additional structure in the floor around the seat mounts, using the hole saw approach is a worst case.     What I did on the two that I couldn't save was glue regular nuts with flat washers on the bottom of the floor.      I first glued the nuts to fender washers then, glued the washers to the floor with devcon/JB weld.    

There are a few things with these million mile trucks that just make doing things tough.    These nuts and bolts below the cab have seen who know what, the chemical reactions that occur with salt and mud.       If you can see the nut under the truck there is a chance you can zap it with a mig gun?     That could stop it from turning and, heat  it to get some thread clearance.      In removing the cabinets in my truck I actually sheared several of these dang things.     Luck was with me on the seats, the one that broke I had good access to and the vise-grips worked like a charm.      I used them to reinstall the seat.        

 

Be careful with any heat source around that air tank, the airlines can get a pin hole easily, I would use a wet towel or rag over any airlines or coolant lines around there..      Depending on where that nut is, try to grip it and see what happens.      It likely tore loose when the rusted threads started to bind, welding it would be best.     It sounds like you will have to do some removal to access it anyway.      Once it is in the clear a fix will be pretty straight forward.   

 

Steve

[mr. cob]

10 hours ago, Steve from SoCal said:

Hi Dave,

 

Unless the entire cage is rotted that is NOT a good idea, you run a real risk of deforming the floor.     The other think with the bolt head sheared is the shank will turn when you try to drill it.    There is additional structure in the floor around the seat mounts, using the hole saw approach is a worst case.     What I did on the two that I couldn't save was glue regular nuts with flat washers on the bottom of the floor.      I first glued the nuts to fender washers then, glued the washers to the floor with devcon/JB weld.    

There are a few things with these million mile trucks that just make doing things tough.    These nuts and bolts below the cab have seen who know what, the chemical reactions that occur with salt and mud.       If you can see the nut under the truck there is a chance you can zap it with a mig gun?     That could stop it from turning and, heat  it to get some thread clearance.      In removing the cabinets in my truck I actually sheared several of these dang things.     Luck was with me on the seats, the one that broke I had good access to and the vise-grips worked like a charm.      I used them to reinstall the seat.        

 

Be careful with any heat source around that air tank, the airlines can get a pin hole easily, I would use a wet towel or rag over any airlines or coolant lines around there..      Depending on where that nut is, try to grip it and see what happens.      It likely tore loose when the rusted threads started to bind, welding it would be best.     It sounds like you will have to do some removal to access it anyway.      Once it is in the clear a fix will be pretty straight forward.   

 

Steve

Howdy Steve,

Thanks again for your very detailed post.  Somehow I have to get under the truck and take a look and see if can figure out what broke and how to fix it BEFORE I cut the head off of the seat bolt.  Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge.

Dave

[Lance A Lott]

Can you get a sawsall between the floor and the seat? You could drill it out by holding the head with vice grips. As was said you will probably have to access the nut for replacement any way so can you cut the nut off? Or put vice grips on it. I thought I had posted this but it didnt go through. After seing your picture I have two thoughts. Drill a series of holes in the side to make a slot to get the sawsall in to cut the head off or just cut the base off untill the head is cut off then weld the slot shut afterwards. Is the seat off the base?

[mr. cob]

Howdy All,

What a day I have had, I have done more WORK today then I have in the last 4 months.  I managed to get under the truck ( sitting on my arse for the last 4 months has NOT done any wonders for my waistline ) while under there I noticed that the complete area under where the seats are mounted is blocked by the truck frame, air tanks, and hoses of many sorts.  I also noticed that the area under the seats is totally FLAT there are no threaded protrusions that could held or any sort of fixed insert or nut.

So I thought lets try the drivers side and see what happens.  All four of the bolts on the drivers side came out, this time when unscrewing the bolts I did so as when you use a tap to cut threads make a couple of turns then reverse for a couple of turns to clear the crud that is on the threads. this worked well instead of forcing the bolt, if I had used this technique on the passengers side I might not be in the fix I am now.

After removing the four bolts that hold the drivers seat I moved it aside and using air blew all the loose crud from the threads, I then ran a tap through the threads making sure they were clean. After everything was clean I used a high powered flashlight to look down into the threads, there was a insert with threads that was somehow attached to the bottom of the floor, the hole went through the insert and I could see that there was a space of about an inch between the bottom of the insert and the top of the floor that I has seen whilst under the truck.

That told me that there is NO access to the threaded insert from underneath the truck unless you literally tore half the truck apart something that is NOT on my agenda.  With the knowledge I have now gained my game plan is to somehow get the head of off the spinning bolt, remove the passengers seat clean up the three holes that the bolts came out of and if possible somehow repair the forth hole, if I can't repair the forth hole the passenger seat is going to be installed using three bolts.  I simply am not going to pay someone hundreds perhaps a thousand dollars plus to repair that forth hole.

That's my story and I am sticking to it..............

THANKS to everyone who has offered advise on how to over come this tribulation.

Dave

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

If you can get the head off the bolt, you might be able to drill the bolt out and run a Helicoil insert in and still use the hole.

 

[Lance A Lott]

How about these? You could use several if you felt the need.

 

30pcs M8 Rivet Nuts Stainless Steel Threaded Insert Nutsert Rivnuts m8 Flate Head https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DK8JM6J/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_3rX2DbGQ4TKZW