Tires Off Ground

[masterdrago]

At a cg near Fredericksburg Texas last week, a neighbor pointed out that the tires were off the ground on the drivers side. He said that it was not good for the level up system to have the tires not touching. I thought his comment was not right but thought I would ask here. The ground was crushed granite and not really very level - sloped to the rear. the level up system seemed to work fine and I had put those plastic waffle spacers under all the legs. Maybe if I had not added them under the front, it would not have had to raise the rear so high. Any thoughts?

[Ronbo]

It will not hurt anything. I use them to change tires along the road and to raise the rv at the tire dealer when they need balance. Any 2 jacks are strong enough to lift the whole rv off the crowns and you are using 4 or 6 depending on which system  you have. 

[Chad Heiser]

I have left my trailer tires off the ground as a result of an out of level site with no issues.  The jacks on the level up system (especially the new version) are plenty strong to handle this.  I don't know that I would do it for extended stays, but an overnight or long weekend (both of which I have done) have been no issue.  If you think about it, the front of the trailer is always off the ground without any issues.  There is no difference at the rear of the trailer.

Those who say you shouldn't take the wheels off the ground are usually referencing (or confusing) a motorhome system.  You do not want to take the rear wheels of a motorhome off the ground, because there is no longer any braking action once you do so and the motorhome can move or slip (there are no parking brakes on front axles on a motorhome).  Trailers do not have parking brakes at all, so the wheels should be chocked when the trailer is disconnected from the tow vehicle.  You do want to make sure the wheels that are on the ground are chocked so the trailer won't move.

[Kirk W]

With any RV when leveling to a point that the weight is all removed from the suspension it is important to be sure that you do not twist the frame and especially so if you will be sitting there for an extended period so that the frame could take a set and stay in that twist. The bigger issue, however, is with motorhomes as there are different issues to consider.  Many motorhome chassis builders state that you should not remove the weight totally from the suspension so that should be checked as it isn't true in all cases. What is true in all motorhomes is that the park position of the transmission and the parking brake are applied to the driveline so that when you lift one or both rear wheels off of the ground you no longer have any braking and it means that your hacks are all that prevents movement of the RV. That may not concern you, but it does bother some of us. 

[remoandiris]

3 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

With any RV when leveling to a point that the weight is all removed from the suspension it is important to be sure that you do not twist the frame and especially so if you will be sitting there for an extended period so that the frame could take a set and stay in that twist.

Explain something to me if you know...leveling systems should keep the coach/frame level and straight, right?  At least that is how those systems seem to be touted. 

[richfaa]

Lippert the MFG of the 6 point leveling system said it will  do no harm to have the wheels off the ground. We also have the Mor Ryde IS system and have had the wheels of the ground many times for various reasons.

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

It may be true that if the rear wheels of a motorhome are off the ground, there are no brakes.  But then again, the weight of the motorhome is now on the jacks and the last I looked, none of the jacks have wheels.

[WeBeFulltimers]

I would be more concerned about the "plastic waffle spacers" you mentioned.  I don't trust them. 

[Kirk W]

11 hours ago, remoandiris said:

Explain something to me if you know...leveling systems should keep the coach/frame level and straight, right? 

Not sure what you are asking but, how evenly the frame is lifted depends on the design or the leveling system and how well the leveling system controls are working. Some manual control systems will allow you to operate a single jack which could easily put which a twisting force on the chassis. On my manual system, each jack has its own control allowing you to use any jack alone as you might to change a tire. If that is done with all other jacks retracted, the suspension allows the low side to shift as needed but if you were to put three jacks on the ground and then raise just one it will twist things. The caution about twisting the frame came with our RV.

I once saw a new Foretravel Motorhome with an automatic leveling system have the windshield popped out to fall to the ground when the automatic leveling system failed and went to hunting up and down. 

[masterdrago]

On 2/16/2018 at 5:24 AM, WeBeFulltimers said:

I would be more concerned about the "plastic waffle spacers" you mentioned.  I don't trust them. 

I've heard others mention that they have had them crack. I gave some consideration to making up some 1x or 2x12 pieces of hardwood cut treated blocks but have not gotten around to it yet. I am using the Valterra A10-0918 Stacker, (Pack of 10) from AMZN. They seen pretty tough and store well. I had one on very unlevel ground and it did not crack or disintegrate. The leg has a pivoting plate on the bottom and it was canted ~10 degrees but reset after raising up for travel.

 

[remoandiris]

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 8:32 AM, Kirk Wood said:

Not sure what you are asking

You said "With any RV when leveling to a point that the weight is all removed from the suspension it is important to be sure that you do not twist the frame and especially so if you will be sitting there for an extended period so that the frame could take a set and stay in that twist. " 

I was asking how can a leveling system twist the frame when, by design, they are supposed to keep the coach level, regardless of wheels touching the ground.  Of course if they are not working properly I can see how that could be a problem.  But a properly functioning leveling system should not twist the frame, whether 1 tire, all tires, or no tires are touching the ground, right? 

Unless the leveling system on a towable is designed to function differently than a motor coach, which is possible.  I have seen more than one motor coach with 1 jack centered in the front and 2 jacks in the rear.

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

For the record, a three legged stool is more stable that a four legged stool.  That is why some of the motorhome are so equipped.   It is just very difficult to implement a three jack system on a trailer.

If the auto-level jack system is smart enough, it will put the jack down until ground contact.  From there on, pair of jacks are used to achieve level.  By using jack pairs, both front, both back, both right, or both left, the frame should not be subjected to warping.  All the current systems using this smart leveling.  Older systems did not do that. 

[WeBeFulltimers]

On 2/17/2018 at 9:18 AM, masterdrago said:

I've heard others mention that they have had them crack. I gave some consideration to making up some 1x or 2x12 pieces of hardwood cut treated blocks but have not gotten around to it yet. I am using the Valterra A10-0918 Stacker, (Pack of 10) from AMZN. They seen pretty tough and store well. I had one on very unlevel ground and it did not crack or disintegrate. The leg has a pivoting plate on the bottom and it was canted ~10 degrees but reset after raising up for travel.

 

Thanks.  I also failed to mention that our favorite campground requires blocks to be used and they MUST be wood.  They also have free wood blocks available at check-in for those people that don't have their own.

[Bill Joyce]

21 hours ago, WeBeFulltimers said:

Thanks.  I also failed to mention that our favorite campground requires blocks to be used and they MUST be wood.  They also have free wood blocks available at check-in for those people that don't have their own.

I have only seen that rule at one place in 14 years of fulltiming, the Santa Barbara CA Elks.  I have seen others that require blocks, but don't specify wood.   Some of those places said that large jack pads, like our HWH ones, are OK as is.

[Barbaraok]

Lake Pleasant in Bothell, WA use to mandate wood blocks and had a pile of them by the office.   I notice that they no longer have the pile, nor do they mention using only wood.   

[Kirk W]

I don't remember where it was but we stayed in one RV park where an employee lead you to your site, directed you in parking (another subject for discussion) and then placed the parks blocks under your jacks before you were allowed to use them. We were directed to just leave the blocks where placed when we left the park. I have seen a few other places requiring the use of blocks and most have them available in case you do not. Usually, it is because they have asphalt paving and some of the leveling jacks do have very small footprints. In most cases, the park's blocks were very little larger than the footprint of our Bigfoot jacks but unless they have made them larger in recent years, those of HWH were quite small and frequently leave marks in newer asphalt paving. 

[Dutch_12078]

HWH uses round pads that range from 8" dia. up to 13.4" dia, depending on the jack capacity. With the dished pad they use though, I don't know what the actual ground contact area is. Bigfoot's standard 10"x10" pads have an actual contact area of about 85 sq in., and Bigfoot's heavy duty pads are 14" dia. with a contact area of about 145 sq in.

[Bill Joyce]

20 hours ago, Dutch_12078 said:

HWH uses round pads that range from 8" dia. up to 13.4" dia, depending on the jack capacity. With the dished pad they use though, I don't know what the actual ground contact area is. Bigfoot's standard 10"x10" pads have an actual contact area of about 85 sq in., and Bigfoot's heavy duty pads are 14" dia. with a contact area of about 145 sq in.

My HWH pads are 10" squares.

[WeBeFulltimers]

On 2/20/2018 at 8:31 AM, Bill Joyce said:

I have only seen that rule at one place in 14 years of fulltiming, the Santa Barbara CA Elks.  I have seen others that require blocks, but don't specify wood.   Some of those places said that large jack pads, like our HWH ones, are OK as is.

The park I referenced is Chester Frost Park Campground (a county parks facility) on the Tennessee River in Chattanooga, TN.  All RV spaces are asphalt.

[Dutch_12078]

10 hours ago, Bill Joyce said:

My HWH pads are 10" squares.

And you're right of course, Bill. I forgot that HWH had some square/rectangular pads on their intermediate capacity jacks.

[oscarvan]

Greetings again, haven't been around for a while. Good to see the discussion is alive and well here.

My $0.03  Getting the rear wheels in the air CAN put strain on the jacks as there is no longer anything keeping wheels (the front ones) from turning. I put a fat chock under at least one front wheel on the downhill side.

Air suspension bags don't like being stretched for extended periods of time. If I'm somewhere for a longer period of time and there's no load on a wheel or wheels I will bring that end up more with the levelers, put a block under the wheel and re-level.

[Dutch_12078]

If the front jacks are down, as they would normally be, how will the front wheels turn? That said, I do agree that any wheels that are off the ground should likely be blocked up rather than hanging down on the suspension. 

[masterdrago]

My neighbor just gave me 2 pieces of oak from a 100 year old tree that fell a few years back. He has a monster band saw and has milled it into pieces that are  1.25"x14"x 7'  -  those should make some nice wood pads!