50 Amp RV Receptacle Quality

[oldjohnt]

    WOW as an old retired power engineer I understand the difference in quality of some cheaper Big Box store homeowner grade electrical devices VERSUS more expensive commercial grade,,,,,,,,, But $7.83 versus $68.88 for an RV pedestal power receptacle NOW THATS SERIOUS. In over 50 years of RV travel I've been in private and public RV parks all over the US and believe many, especially older, must have went the cheap route !!!

Check out what Mike Sokol has to say.. 

 https://rvelectricity.substack.com/p/light-duty-50-amp-outlet-meltdown?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

 Best wishes take care be safe out there

John T

[D&J]

Before everyone starts running around like there hair is on fire I took one of my levington rec apart and the contacts are not steel (non magnetic) and they have a tab hanging down on both sides to put pressure on the contacts when a plug is engaged. Mine is a contractor grade and maybe Levington makes a cheaper grade but they are comparing the highest grade Hubble to the lowest grade from the other brands. I will say I wouldn't buy one from a box store because if there is something cheap out there they will sell it, just look at the contacts and see if they are brass colored.

Denny

[Payroll Person]

This issue is also coming to the front for those installing outlets for ev charging. Same with understanding a 50a outlet should be limited to 40a continuous. 

[DanZemke]

Mike provides some great information, often with a bit more detail than I need.  But his main message on this is not a "detail".

Thanks John !

 

[RV_]

John great comments and video. Got me looking at mine again after three years of regular use charging an Model Y EV. My electrician picked a very good quality outlet. Hubble is not the only top quality outlets out there.

https://www.amazon.ca/Enerlites-Receptacle-Electric-Vehicles-Electrical/dp/B07BD2DZYN?th=1

I used an outlet tester connected to a dog bone to check 50 amp outlets in parks before I plugged in. Before the gurus jump in saying that tests only one hot leg, I know that connecting it that way only tests one hot leg but I was willing to bet if the ground tests out that the other leg is wired correctly. I always carry a Volt Ohmmeter or multi-meter with me. If anything was loose or the readings were suspicious we parked elsewhere.

However for those who do nothing but plug in I would suggest at least using a Volt Ohm meter to test them before plugging in your expensive RV into it.

 

Testing your outlet

The best advice that I read on the internet about testing an RV plug, is NOT to trust ANYBODY (including a professional that installs it). Anyone can make a mistake and you may end up being the one paying for that mistake.

Also, because it is super easy to check the outlet, you cannot afford to be lazy now! You can use a multimeter (or voltmeter) to check for correct power coming through or simply plug in a surge protector, which will light up the green light if everything is OK.

If using a multimeter (or voltmeter):

• The voltage between HOT wires should be = 240 volts
• The voltage between HOT and NEUTRAL = 120 volts (check both)
• The voltage between HOT and GROUND = 120 volts
• The voltage between NEUTRAL and GROUND = 0 volts

Here is a diagram:

Feel free to download the PDF file for greater detail.

Source:

https://electricproblems.com/how-to-wire-a-50-amp-rv-plug/

Edited June 29, 2023 by RV_

[oldjohnt]

   Thanks for the post RV, lots of good info there (and a pics worth a thousand words). As you know but some may not, unloaded voltage alone at an RV Receptacle doesn't tell the whole story. There's no V = I x R voltage drop until such time current flows through a faulty/loose/carboned/resistive connection like a plug, receptacle or wiring connection .........

 Even without any meter, if you don't get a firm tight connection when you plug in your RV power cord TAKE WARNING......Those receptacles take a lot of abuse wear n tear from no telling how many times they are used over several years and/or arcing burning and resistive pitting if plugged in under a load....

PS  FYI  I'm not a fan but a few RV parks may (instead of 120/240) use 208 Y 120 Volt Three Phase Four Wire electrical service in which case there would only be 208 Volts from L1 to L2 !!!!!!!!

 Take care yall be safe out there

Happy upcoming Independence Day

 John T

 

[Payroll Person]

And test/inspect your extension cords as well. Ends, and run your hands along the entire length to look for bends, cuts, nicks, etc. 

While I get flamed on ev sites, I trust and use my rv designed extension, if needed, for ev too. 

[oldjohnt]

12 minutes ago, Payroll Person said:

While I get flamed on ev sites, I trust and use my rv designed extension, if needed, for ev too. 

Hey there Payroll, great tips. if your RV cord (likely 30 or 50 Amp rated ??) has adequate ampacity and insulation type/integrity suitable for the location to conduct your EV's charger current, I don't understand any flaming ??????? Of course, you wouldn't use a 30 Amp rated cord to carry over 30 Amps WELL DUH you already know that .........

 John T

 

[Payroll Person]

1 hour ago, oldjohnt said:

Hey there Payroll, great tips. if your RV cord (likely 30 or 50 Amp rated ??) has adequate ampacity and insulation type/integrity suitable for the location to conduct your EV's charger current, I don't understand any flaming ??????? Of course, you wouldn't use a 30 Amp rated cord to carry over 30 Amps WELL DUH you already know that .........

 John T

 

Ev keyboard warriors say no extension cord, period. Yet they talk about rv parks as a backup charging option on long trips, even if they have to claim they are camping.

In my case, our rv is 120v / 30a, so that is the outlet we have, and ev charger we setup as well. We can fully charge in two overnights, off peak. We are also within 10 minutes of three different superchargers, and have free L2 charging downtown. At home, I limit ev to 20a to account for any extra heat by using an extension. (24a is the max continuous from a 30a outlet.)
 

Our home power is at max already. Household stuff, a/c, spa, and swim spa. The ev, spa, and swim spa are all set for off peak, staggered. The A/c pre cools to 64 before peak, and “rides” well for the evening. We actually pay less for energy, including adding the ev, because of eligibility for ev tou rates. (We drive one charge or less during the week.) Yes, we drive ev with a negative energy cost.

Solar home is a money loser in CA, and will likely be even for early adopters when the new rate structure comes online in the next year or so.

I also get lit up when I point out the LFP batts in the ev can be charged fully at all times, same as the lfp in our MH, with little life loss in their practical lifetime. I am not one to spend time managing and predicting charge to get some additional life 15 or 20 years down the road. We specifically got a M3 with Lfp for the lack of need to limit charging. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Payroll Person

[oldjohnt]

3 hours ago, Payroll Person said:

Ev keyboard warriors say no extension cord, period.

Tell them Blah Blah Blah lol..  So long as an extension cord does not cause excess line voltage drop (depends on length, current, and wire size), voltage at end under load is adequate, and current limits aren't exceeded AS YOU KNOW IT WORKS !!!!! Saying NO EXTENSION CORDS PERIOD absent length, wire size and current doesn't  mean much...   

3 hours ago, Payroll Person said:

At home, I limit ev to 20a to account for any extra heat by using an extension. (24a is the max continuous from a 30a outlet.)

 Good plan. I was taught the 80% rule in NEC Seminars.........

 Fun sparky chatting with you, take care, Happy Independence Day

John T

 

[RV_]

Payroll,

I had no idea about the extension cord prejudice. Thanks for the heads up on expecting that.

For 30 amp pedestal wiring check for my 30 Amp first 5th wheel (fiver) I used a 30 amp male to 15/20Amp female adapter like this:

which costs $9.99 at Harbor Freight: 30 Amp male to 15 Amp female adapter link to order

 

Then I just plugged in a regular 15/20 Amp outlet tester with GFCI check like this:

for $8.99 at Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Bastex-Tester-Receptacle-Indications-Electric/dp/B071FVB35Q/ref=sr_1_24?crid=3H81PSL1J0R72&keywords=15+amp+outlet+tester&qid=1688155722&s=automotive&sprefix=15+amp+outlet+tester%2Cautomotive%2C127&sr=1-24

Now they have a GFCI checker one for the same price:

GFCI outlte checker at Amazon for $8.99 : https://www.amazon.com/Bastex-Tester-Receptacle-Indications-Electric/dp/B071FVB35Q/ref=sr_1_24?crid=3H81PSL1J0R72&keywords=15+amp+outlet+tester&qid=1688155722&s=automotive&sprefix=15+amp+outlet+tester%2Cautomotive%2C127&sr=1-24

Because some RV parks have only 50 Amp outlets I also carried a 50 Amp male to 30 Amp female adapter to plug my RV into 50 Amp outlets like this:

50-30Amp $10.99 at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/EPICORD-Dogbone-Adapter-Electrical-Converter/dp/B07RKR4JGF/ref=asc_df_B07RKR4JGF?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80607998235731&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584207580748105&psc=1

So before plugging my 30 amp RV into that adapter I plugged the 50 amp to 30 Amp female adapter to the pedestal, then the 30 Amp male to 15 amp female adapter pictured above into it, and then the regular 15 amp outlet tester to that.

However today you can test a 50 amp pedestal with just one outlet checker and no adapters before you plug into any 50 Amp outlet with this for $19.99 at Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Dumble-Outlet-Tester-Plug-Receptacle/dp/B0B3LW9JC9/ref=asc_df_B0B3LW9JC9?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80882956862547&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584482475734006&psc=1

So you can test any 50 Amp RV Outlet without doing a Rube Goldberg assembly like we have to do for 30 Amp RVs, and use the 50 Amp outlet tester on the pedestal directly. If the three left green lights light up and the last LED does not light green or red it is wired corectly at least.

You don't need to be an electrical expert or Sparky GURU to test your pedestal nor learn how to use a volt-Ohm or multi-meter to test them. There are just 4 LEDs and the legend tells what each combination means, EZ PZ, and much cheaper than repairing damage to your RV electrical system or devices like computers and TVs onboard.

So why test the pedestal outlets? Here is a pic of what happened to my second rig and we don't know which park or friends house this happened at. Here you see all the neutrals burnt in the RV inside circuit breaker box.

I also had a friend who had an RV hookup in his garage that I plugged into and it caused my computer power center to catch fire. and damaged my A/C causing us to need to replace the whole A/C unit which I did myself.

Safe Travels!

Edited June 30, 2023 by RV_

[Payroll Person]

2 minutes ago, oldjohnt said:

sparky chatting with you, take care, Happy Independence Day

Likewise. Me, jack-of-all, but able to find the knowledge I don’t have or remember.

I gave up trying to argue online back in the bbs days. I try to share my opinion when appropriate, but know it is worth what I charge.

I hide my autoformer rather than argue the merits. Same with my voltage protection.

I was contemplating adding a tt30 on the rv (from gen) as a backup charge for the car, but we rarely sit at less than 100mi range left. 

[Payroll Person]

5 minutes ago, RV_ said:

had no idea about the extension cord prejudice. Thanks for the heads up on expecting that.

Yet one can buy an auto switcher for dryer outlet, and an extension cord (considered it if I had needed more charging speed). Many wall chargers can do the same in pairs (effectively share one circuit for 2 evs).

I simply unplug the rv and plug in the ev. The ev mobile charger has a quality third party outlet sensing tt30 adapter which limits the amps (although I self limit).

[RV_]

2 hours ago, Payroll Person said:

Likewise. Me, jack-of-all, but able to find the knowledge I don’t have or remember.

I gave up trying to argue online back in the bbs days. I try to share my opinion when appropriate, but know it is worth what I charge.

I hide my autoformer rather than argue the merits. Same with my voltage protection.

I was contemplating adding a tt30 on the rv (from gen) as a backup charge for the car, but we rarely sit at less than 100mi range left. 

I am a JOAT too ( Jack of all trades), experience just makes me able to know where to look it up to do/fix it. I had the 50 Amp circuit in my garage installed for me because I did not want to pull new thicker grounds across the house and basement and doing the newer larger 200 Amp breaker box and all the wiring was just too much because while I could take a week to do it and likely survive and get it right, the power to the house had to be off. So getting it all done in a day by the licensed electrician was worth the extra.

And even if I did do it ten years before once, I keep saying here I am not a Sparky but muddle through the easy stuff myself. YouTube is my friend! I can't remember my resistor color codes from 1972-1974 doing the Basic electronics course. The pro who does it every day can do it much faster with no major mistakes.

Folks arguing online? There is a difference between opinions and facts. 🤫

Edited June 30, 2023 by RV_

[D&J]

22 minutes ago, RV_ said:

 

That is caused by loose neutrals in your panel, it starts with one then overheats all of them around it, it's a good idea because of road vibration to check all connections every few years. In all my years being a electrician sence 1969 I've seen it many times.

Denny

[Payroll Person]

1 hour ago, D&J said:

That is caused by loose neutrals in your panel, it starts with one then overheats all of them around it, it's a good idea because of road vibration to check all connections every few years. In all my years being a electrician sence 1969 I've seen it many times.

Denny

Always start there. Same with the ground(s) on the vehicle systems. I got to teach this to one son. He was doing work in a semi and called me after an hour or two trying to find an intermittent issue. I said look at the batt grounds first, then all others. The batts were loose in their box and ground wire was bad. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Payroll Person

[RV_]

Denny and PP, good advice to periodically check the neutrals for tightness.I did check the neutrals first and that is how we found it. However 50 amp service, if miswired at the source, can potentially overload the neutral. So long as it's correctly wired to 220v, the neutral carries only the DIFFERENCE between the two hot wire currents.

If the source outlet has both 50 amp sources at just 110v, the neutral will carry the SUM of the two hot wire currents. No outlet should be wired at 50 amp /110-120v but you hear occasional accounts of people who've encountered a "cheater" 50 amp plug.

That's why I won't plug in an RV shore power plug without testing the outlet for safe wiring.

It is a good practice to check them for tightness.

We had one park that had GFCI at the pedestal that just kept tripping immediately. We found another site that worked. I guess the installer got some wrong!

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by RV_

[Dutch_12078]

2 hours ago, RV_ said:

...

So you can test any 50 Amp RV Outlet without doing a Rube Goldberg assembly like we have to do for 30 Amp RVs, and use the 50 Amp outlet tester on the pedestal directly. If the three left green lights light up and the last LED does not light green or red it is wired corectly at least.

...

No need to Rube Goldberg a 30 amp tester either.

https://www.amazon.com/Dumble-Outlet-Tester-Plug-Receptacle/dp/B0B3M8NJ6V/

[RV_]

8 minutes ago, Dutch_12078 said:

No need to Rube Goldberg a 30 amp tester either.

https://www.amazon.com/Dumble-Outlet-Tester-Plug-Receptacle/dp/B0B3M8NJ6V/

Dutch good point, they can do that too. I saw that too when I looked for the link to outlet testers.

30 amp traveling RVrs might want to carry a 50 amp adapter for folks who are traveling full time or travel in their RV a lot. If the pedestal tests out good then any issues are the dog bone, shore power cable, or inside the RV.

I tried to find a 30 amp outlet tester back in 1997, none available so I adapted. A few years later our rig was 50 Amp. No 50 amp outlet testers then either so I used my 15/20amp tester as above and could not find the 50 and 30 amp RV outlet testers when we were full time 1997-2003.

I have found about five or six badly/dangerously wired RV pedestals over the years. Whether 50 or 30 amp RV, I would also still carry a 15/20 amp outlet tester to test the 15/20 Amp outlets at the pedestal too if I used them routinely, not just the 50 amp outlet tester. And the outlets inside the RV if troubleshooting them.

 

[Payroll Person]

I carry a dog bone in case one outlet looks better than the other (30a /120v rv).

[Dutch_12078]

10 hours ago, RV_ said:

Dutch good point, they can do that too. I saw that too when I looked for the link to outlet testers.

30 amp traveling RVrs might want to carry a 50 amp adapter for folks who are traveling full time or travel in their RV a lot. If the pedestal tests out good then any issues are the dog bone, shore power cable, or inside the RV.

I tried to find a 30 amp outlet tester back in 1997, none available so I adapted. A few years later our rig was 50 Amp. No 50 amp outlet testers then either so I used my 15/20amp tester as above and could not find the 50 and 30 amp RV outlet testers when we were full time 1997-2003.

I have found about five or six badly/dangerously wired RV pedestals over the years. Whether 50 or 30 amp RV, I would also still carry a 15/20 amp outlet tester to test the 15/20 Amp outlets at the pedestal too if I used them routinely, not just the 50 amp outlet tester. And the outlets inside the RV if troubleshooting them.

 

I have 6 or 8 convenience outlet testers in various places that I collected over the years when the electrical suppliers used to give them away. Like you, I used one with a dog bone and 30/20 adapter for 30 amp testing, and later on two of them with a 50/30/30 splitter for 50 amps. I haven't decided whether to invest in the 50 amp Dumble or not.

[Kirk W]

On 6/29/2023 at 9:05 AM, oldjohnt said:

WOW as an old retired power engineer

As another retired from the field, I'm always amazed by the "experts" who give electrical advice on forums.  😉

[oldjohnt]

26 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

As another retired from the field, I'm always amazed by the "experts" who give electrical advice on forums.  😉

Thanks so much Kirk, and likewise I'm amazed by and appreciate your "expert" electrical advice as another fellow retiree. Glad to help anytime I can.

WOW great pictures links and advice above THANKS TO EVERYONE  Good sparky thread !!!!!!!!!!!

Happy Independence Day everyone

 Be safe everyone, electricity can cause a fire or kill you dead !!!! Post back any questions

 John T, BSEE, JD  Old Retired Power Distribution Engineer but still love the subject and helping out.

[Kirk W]

The best job of converting a class A from 30A to 50A that I have ever seen was done by a fellow who learned how on his own with no formal training or previous experience.  His work was better than the work of many licensed electricians that I have seen.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Kirk W

[oldjohnt]

18 hours ago, RV_ said:

Because some RV parks have only 50 Amp outlets I also carried a 50 Amp male to 30 Amp female adapter to plug my RV into 50 Amp outlets like this:

RV, wow THANKS for all the great pictures links and info, great source for any newbies or non sparkies !!!!!!!!

QUESTION for you ? Do you happen to know if that 50M to 30F Dogbone Adapter has any internal 30 Amp Overcurrent Protection, fuse, breaker or fusible wire link perhaps ??

John T BSEE,JD  Retired yet ever curious power engineer