Old Goat's corner. A visitor

[phoenix2013]

Old Goat got a phone call this morning. The gentleman picked up a Jackalope kit few weeks back, was waiting for an ET to be delivered, lives next town over in Florida. "Can I come over and talk about things? Can I bring the semi". I said, "my neighbors are well acquainted with semis in my driveway, bring it over" 

 

He had the frame extended and ET mounted, wanted my opinion and tips on the Jackalopee mounting and wiring and the DirectLink wiring. He added about 5 feet to the frame and wanted to know if his classic CJ5 would be OK in front of his fifth. The 25 foot long measure said, "it's either dead nuts on or an inch short", horse puckers. We formulated and attack plan, he will extend it again 14 inches, then he'll be back in my driveway with my mag drill which hasn't seen any "real work" for years. Also we discovered that the DirectLink folks did not give him the correct OBD harness.  It's fun to feel useful again.

Edited April 20, 2023 by phoenix2013

[Sculptor]

He is in good hands.  

[Sparky242]

Good to feel useful and projects keep your skills up.

[phoenix2013]

13 hours ago, Sparky242 said:

Good to feel useful and projects keep your skills up.

Yes it does. However, I did not start this thread for self aggrandizement, I have a practical reason. Daniel is a very interesting person and a good planner. Learned about an ET hitch and  Jackalopee and then sought me out for an advice. Took the advice sought out local resources and got to the point you see in the picture. Wanted to know if "he did good" and wanted to know if his ideas about the bed building were solid. So I suggested that he come over and we'll talk. He's got good ideas, but couple would have given him grief if he did it that way. Bed being too short, was one of them. We'll meet again next week for a more "formal" design review. He also found a nuclear reactor welding certified welder in Port St. Lucie to do his welding work. My welder from ET days has gone on to other profession so I will be meeting this welder also. I need a welder to prototype the ET Baby parts I got from Youngs. Besides, it should be a neat project to follow and post it's progressions. On the other thread there is a discussion that there isn't enough projects post, this could be one more.

Not many conversions are done to carry a car lengthwise, this would be another. So there are challenges about clearing the ET, rear ramping, trailer clearing, etc. Should spark some interesting discussions.

Edited April 20, 2023 by phoenix2013

[Vegas Teacher]

I am jealous all of you with skills I don't have. Love reading about what you are doing though!

Later,

Cory O 

[phoenix2013]

Cory, if you give me too many complement, my wife might tell you to stop because I'm impossible to live with. I think she's there already. It's been a long journey of over 20 years of learning and doing. There was a small core of people who started this HDT movement then, Jack Meyer, Mark Bruss and others who "invited me into their circle" to learn, to do and gain confidence. If you had a chance to attend the HDT Rally you'd see that it still continues at much higher and extensive level, but we never forget, cherish and fawn over the newbies and first timers who show up. We truly make them welcome, because we were all there at one time. I offered to help Daniel because he reminds me of myself 20 years ago, a real scrapper not afraid to tackle anything, but also humble enough to find people to ask questions or get help.

[dblr]

19 hours ago, Vegas Teacher said:

I am jealous all of you with skills I don't have. Love reading about what you are doing though!

Later,

Cory O 

I got to see Henry in action and let me tell you I do not think his mind ever stops thinking on how a project will work. he is definitely one of those person " Who has probably forgotten more than I will ever know".

[Vegas Teacher]

4 hours ago, dblr said:

I got to see Henry in action and let me tell you I do not think his mind ever stops thinking on how a project will work. he is definitely one of those person " Who has probably forgotten more than I will ever know".

Maybe some year I will make it to the national rally in "Hutch" that is what those of us who grew up in Kansas called it.

[dblr]

5 hours ago, Vegas Teacher said:

Maybe some year I will make it to the national rally in "Hutch" that is what those of us who grew up in Kansas called it.

It is our goal to attend that one as well, this year was looking really good until our son decided to get married in Texas around the same time.

[mike5511]

On 4/20/2023 at 11:55 AM, phoenix2013 said:

Cory, if you give me too many complement, my wife might tell you to stop because I'm impossible to live with. I think she's there already. It's been a long journey of over 20 years of learning and doing. There was a small core of people who started this HDT movement then, Jack Meyer, Mark Bruss and others who "invited me into their circle" to learn, to do and gain confidence. If you had a chance to attend the HDT Rally you'd see that it still continues at much higher and extensive level, but we never forget, cherish and fawn over the newbies and first timers who show up. We truly make them welcome, because we were all there at one time. I offered to help Daniel because he reminds me of myself 20 years ago, a real scrapper not afraid to tackle anything, but also humble enough to find people to ask questions or get help.

Even though I have no plans for another truck, I love watching what others are doing. And what you say about the National Rally, I found to be absolutely true. Hope to make it this year!

[phoenix2013]

We are having fun now. Daniel and I visited his machine shop this morning. Next meeting tomorrow morning In the meantime I cranked the old SolidWorks and came up with this.

[phoenix2013]

Moving along

Next step to see if the trailer likes this setup

I think it does, clearing the Jeep will not be an issue, I would venture that ET could come few inches forward and make the truck shorter.

Edited April 25, 2023 by phoenix2013

[mike5511]

3 hours ago, phoenix2013 said:

Moving along

Next step to see if the trailer likes this setup

I think it does, clearing the Jeep will not be an issue, I would venture that ET could come few inches forward and make the truck shorter.

A Jeep was what I had in mind when I started out. Then I ran across my current truck, already singled with a bed and a smart car to go with it. Had to move the hitch back and make a way to secure the Smart, but it has all worked out very satisfactorily! 

[rickeieio]

8 hours ago, phoenix2013 said:

I would venture that ET could come few inches forward and make the truck shorter.

Perhaps a shorter pinbox might get you there while allowing for a longer load in the future?

[phoenix2013]

52 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

Perhaps a shorter pinbox might get you there while allowing for a longer load in the future?

The facsimile of the fifth you see is of Continental Coach. I did it for a customer who wanted to know whether things would work out on his bed.  Then I made three versions of it in CAD. Straight down pin box, flush with the front pin box and extended pin box. Then I rotated all three through various turns, 25 degrees, 45 degrees, 60 degrees and 90 which you see. 90 was where the rigs were closest to the car and guess what, that distance is identical for all three situations, half the width (102 inches) of the trailer, 52 inches. So the rule I applied in designs was 5 feet (60 inches) from the center of the ET head at minimum. The further back the pin is under the fifth overhang, the shorter the overall length and better handling of the whole setup, but it has no effect on the clearance, it's the same.

[rickeieio]

Yep, I've been through the same calculations, but on graph paper (old skool).  The reason I brought it up was suggesting leaving the hitch rearward would allow flexibility of hauled vehicles.  It seems silly to design a bed without considering what the future might bring.

[Steve from SoCal]

A deep pin provides the smallest swing clearance.    While a shallow pin may get deck space as noted, the 90 figure is constant at trailer width.     Fifth wheel campers unlike semi trailers have shallow or even offset pins.    A camper may not have the gooseneck length to get a really deep pin, 36-48" but, even a 24" pin would get a better swing radius.

[rickeieio]

Agreed Steve.  That's why I favor shortening the pin box.  Much easier and cheaper, especially if/when you need to reverse the process later.

[Star Dreamer]

11 hours ago, rickeieio said:

Agreed Steve.  That's why I favor shortening the pin box.  Much easier and cheaper, especially if/when you need to reverse the process later.

The setup that would require the least amount of space for turning to a full 90 would be a pin in line with the front edge of the trailer assuming a squared off front for the trailer. Rounded fronts change the calcs. A straight down pin box with the pin under the gooseneck area actually needs more room as you have to figure the distance from the pin to the farthest front corner which will be larger that just going straight to the side. An extended pin box gives you more clearance up to the point of 90 degrees and may even allow a little beyond 90 on paper but it will be such a small amount that it isn't worth the time to calculate it.

[phoenix2013]

Three examples of extended pin box, even with the front cap pin box and straight down pin box. 70 -75 degrees turn is where the most "challenge" is on a straight front cap. If the front cap is curved the hypotenuse issue goes away on the straight down pin box. At 90 degrees it's the same on all three front to back.