Ford V 10 Sudden Power Loss

[oldjohnt]

My V10 Ford in the RV has performed ABSOLUTELY PERFECT the past 50,000 miles, had a recent tune up with plugs and fuel filter etc., but SUDDENLY developed a problem the other day..... .The power dropped off DRASTICALLY like I was pulling a Mack truck or the brakes were on but MOST NOTICEABLE was a terrible pre ignition spark knock rattle especially over 3000 RPM or heading uphill I NEVER HAD BEFORE always ran regular 87 gas..... ..Despite two tanks of 89 octane it made no difference AND NO ALARMS OR CHECK ENGINE LIGHTS ARE SHOWING !!!!

My non professional non mechanic GUESSES are some sort of a sensor is bad making the computer advance the timing way too fast (but no check engine lights are on ??) or perhaps the catalytic converter is all clogged up ???

My professional mechanic buddy has a high dollar Snap On Analyzer Im hoping will diagnose the problem or sensor or whatever is causing the DRASTIC loss of power and terrible never heard before spark knock rattle at high RPM or under load

IM LOOKING FOR ANY SIMILAR Ford V10 experiences or best guesses ?? I will let ya know what the Snap On Analyzer has to say, my free one from Amazon isn't all that accurate lol

John T Back home again in Indiana and very happy other than the RV problem which will be fixed !!!!!!!!!!

[Pat & Pete]

Our V10 ford has about 70K and has ran those without a hiccup , so I won't be any help .

I will be watching this thread for whatever you find as the cause of your power lose . 

Good luck .

[Wrknrvr]

   When was the air filter changed last.

 

    I had a friend that was  frustrated at his Ford motor home as it had lost some power. His home was flooded in Florida and he wanted to get back. Pushed it so hard the transmission went out.

  Had the trans repaired while he went home in his car. He drove back to the rv a week or so later. Engine still was real short on power. Took unit to a Ford dealer. Nothing showing up as a problem. One mechanic said to check the air filter. Totally plugged air filter.

[oldjohnt]

46 minutes ago, Wrknrvr said:

When was the air filter changed last.

I just checked it pretty clean was changed last spring. The thing is this happened SO SUDDEN. I wondered about a bad tank of gas but after 2 new fill ups with 89 octane it was no better still had an awful spark knock pinging .........Not long ago in California towing the Honda out of Death Valley to Lone Pine up a steep grade it never once knocked pulled it decent.....Now all of a sudden starting up a hill at first shift down at 3000 it starts to ping but if the hill gets worse and it has to shift down again rising to 4000 or more it almost goes flat you have to back out of it ..........Im still thinking a bad sensor is causing the computer to advance timing way too fast ?????? It will be next week before I get it to the Snap On Analyzer hoping it will find the problem. Stil starts and idles smooth and perfect bit like no power under load and awful pinging......... I will let yall know what I find

Thanks

John T

[Wrknrvr]

    Dry gas needed, possibly.

   

   We are in South Carolina for the winter. I have been adding dry gas most of the winter to my Jeep that has a Chevy 350 with a Holley carburetor. Or it wants to miss some, or diesel when I shut it off.

  Just thinking about a simple solution to your situation.

[Wrknrvr]

    Fuel filter

[oldjohnt]

2 hours ago, Wrknrvr said:

Fuel filter

Its the huge canister style underneath it was changed maybe 8000 miles back it seems to get plenty of fuel (but hard to know for sure) its NOT cutting out or missing best I can tell, I can get over 75 MPH on the flats just no power when she starts up a grade when she starts spark knock pinging WHICH IT NEVER DID BEFORE even up a 10% grade towing the Honda........   

2 hours ago, Wrknrvr said:

Dry gas needed, possibly.

I guess I could try it but it doesn't seem to miss or surge or cut in and out like if it had water in the gas ??? and it had two new fresh fill ups with 89 octane (used regular 87 past 50,000 miles no prob) 

 Im just hoping the Snap On Analyzer (cost a fortune) may find a faulty sensor thats screwing up the fuel/air mixture and/or timing causing such a BAD hard loud spark knock never experienced before ???

 Probably be early next week before I take it down there

PS Im NOT ruling out my other guess CLOGGED UP CAT CONVERTER !!!!! its 17 years old 

THANKS 

John T 

Edited April 6, 2023 by oldjohnt

[Wrknrvr]

     I have, on occasion been successful at say a local  auto parts for some good info. Maybe rent a diagnostic tool.

   But then others just look at you. The local NAPA has been helpful on 33 percent of my recent requests for odd parts.

  I would say they are a small store fore a NAPA. So I think that was most of there not having what I was looking for

Edited April 7, 2023 by Wrknrvr

[superyooper]

Hello, did you ever locate the problem? I have a 2004 v10 and don't have pinging or any fault lights but once I get to 50-55mph it doesnt have much power to go any faster? I changed the air filter and am changing the fuel filter but.......dont know where to go from here. Any idea's?

thanks

[oldjohnt]

4 hours ago, superyooper said:

Hello, did you ever locate the problem?

1. Not yet, it doesn't go to the shop until May 10, but my mechanic assured me he will find n fix the problem. His thoughts are similar to my own, he's thinking a sensor may be bad sending the wrong signal to the computer messing up the fuel/air mixture and/or timing HOWEVER since there's no red flags/codes showing it may just be a clogged cat converter but his analyzer shows past stored codes also. It starts n idles smooth n perfect and okay if a light load but knocks pings with no power and goes like flat up a hill which it NEVER did before.. Good news is there's NO sensor after/behind the converter so it and computer wont go bonkers........NO its NOT any simple air or fuel filter problem they are clean n like new .................. Already had new plugs and fresh  tune up with no coil pack issues etc.

         I will let yall know what it was in May. Currently it's regular routine maintenance and minor upgrades now that its home which I thoroughly enjoy. I replaced my aging toilet with a ceramic/china which the wife really likes better than plastic. All the solar, lithium, Inverter, charger as well as my DC to DC charger are all working great as we love to dry camp 

     John T

[oldjohnt]

 I changed oil today messed with it a bit and discovered something BUT IT MAY HAVE BEEN EXACT THE SAME BEFORE my problem above, I just don't remember trying this  ??????

 I tried and discovered that if I push the gas pedal all the way to the floor, it would top out at 3500 RPM and go no higher !!!!!!! NOW maybe the computer has some sort of a rev RPM limiter and that's how it works and may have before??? Or maybe there's a fuel pump/pressure issue which caused my sudden loss or power and severe pinging under load I described above ..When pulling a hill it would start pinging BAD at over 3000 but go all the way up to 4200 or so but then ping real bad and go like flat (like engine was yellng OH CRAP give me a break lol) until I took my foot out of it........  

 One more condition to consider I could almost swear this happened RIGHT AFTER I FILLED UP WITH GAS AT A WALMART   Perhaps that load of fuel was incorrect or it was ethanol or just NOT the regular old 87 Ive always used ??????? The next 2 fill ups I used 89 octane but it made no difference grrrrrrrrr

 I cant wait to get it in the shop early next month and in the meantime Im doing all my normal routine maintenance I enjoy each spring when Im home    

 Time will tell, still a mystery

 John T

 

[Kirk W]

25 minutes ago, oldjohnt said:

BUT IT MAY HAVE BEEN EXACT THE SAME BEFORE my problem above, I just don't remember trying this  ??????

Yours is probably different from what we had but ours did have an RPM limiter built into the computer. If it would do what you describe I never discovered it but I doubt that I ever did what you did. It did limit the max RPM you could get when geared down to climb a steel grade.

[oldjohnt]

7 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

It did limit the max RPM you could get when geared down to climb a steel grade.

Thanks Kirk, 3500 RPM was max sitting in the driveway just now, but when pulling a hill towing the Honda on our recent Florida return it would jump up to 4200 or more (after 2nd downshift, 5R 110) while pinging badly but would almost shut down temporarily so I took my foot back out of it and nursed it....... However last year I pulled the Honda up a 9% grade between Death Valle and Lone Pine CA like a champ no ping no power loss ever.........   Wish I could get it in the shop sooner Im impatient lol but will get it fixed.......Maybe I got a tank of the wrong gas or it was Ethanol, something happened it didn't like, I have now added that or fuel pump/pressure to my other cat converter or sensor guesses ??? Im better at electrical stuff than engines lol  

Thanks again, best wishes, I will let yall know what we find..

John T

[Kirk W]

We also had a limp home mode but I never experienced it and I can't remember what it was or why.    What Is the Ford Limp Mode?

[Anawilliam850]

If you've already tried using higher octane fuel and the problem persists, it's possible that there is an issue with the ignition timing or spark advance. This could be caused by a faulty sensor or a problem with the engine control module (ECM).

Another possibility is that there is a problem with the catalytic converter or exhaust system. A clogged catalytic converter can restrict exhaust flow and cause a loss of power.

[oldjohnt]

12 hours ago, Anawilliam850 said:

If you've already tried using higher octane fuel and the problem persists, it's possible that there is an issue with the ignition timing or spark advance. This could be caused by a faulty sensor or a problem with the engine control module (ECM).

Another possibility is that there is a problem with the catalytic converter or exhaust system. A clogged catalytic converter can restrict exhaust flow and cause a loss of power.

Thanks Ana, yep what you say pretty much agrees with my initial guesses.

    "My non professional non mechanic GUESSES are some sort of a sensor is bad making the computer advance the timing way too fast (but no check engine lights are on ??) or perhaps the catalytic converter is all clogged up ??? "

   It wont be long before we go to the shop and I will let yall know what we find

 Best wishes take care now

 John T

[superyooper]

Hello,

Got word from the shop today and they said the coils were cracked?, needed plugs, and fuel pressure was low. I had just recently had the fuel filter replaced by Camping World so either it was the wrong filter , not installed correctly or possible fuel pump. Not sure but I think the fuel pump is in the tank unless an in-line one can be installed if it is the fuel pump. The rig only has 41000 miles on it and hard to believe I have these type of problems already.

[Kirk W]

9 minutes ago, superyooper said:

Not sure but I think the fuel pump is in the tank

I am quite sure that your fuel pump is in the tank as mine was on our F53 and pretty much all of them are nowadays. Mine was an earlier F53 than yours but when I sold it after 14 years and 82k miles it was still running fine but it did have a fuel pump replaced after 11 years due to it having been damaged by packrats. 

[oldjohnt]

UPDATE: (Sudden loss of power under heavy load with limited RPM ability and severe spark knocking (mixture too lean not getting enough fuel) my first GUESSES were maybe a bad sensor, clogged cat converter) 

  Hooked to an expensive latest Snap On Analyzer showed no current faults, no stored engine code faults, no cat converter fault codes, NO INDICATION OF CAUSE FOR LOSS OF POWER grrrrrrrrrrrr  

   Measured fuel pressure in shop with brakes on and trying to load as much as possible FUEL PRESSURE OKAY ...   HOWEVER that's still NOT the same a if I were pulling a steep grade towing the Honda.

 Installed new gas filter and tried a new MAF Sensor as it has to do with fuel air mixture, just to try those things, NO HELP Still no fault codes show up..

  This Friday we're going to check for excess exhaust backflow pressure and by pass Cat Converter (has NO O2 sensor in center or rear of cat, only single sensor up front) as it being 17 years old may have developed restriction.,.. Theres NO Rotten Egg odor, but it does sometime smell like hot oil underneath when hot even though engine uses or leaks NO oil ???) If that's no help take a look at the in tank elec fuel pump even though pressure is fine sitting in shop. 

 Stay tuned, its ran perfect past 50k miles, starts and idles smooth n perfect, had a recent tune up, all of a sudden after filling gas it lost power yet 2 or 3 new fresh tanks plus HEET or other snake oils  helped DRATS

 John T 

 

  

 

[superyooper]

Hello,

plugs and new coils were my problem. Mine ran fine, no codes or lights, started and ran smooth untill you stepped on it for more power. After plugs and coils it has more power. Evidently this is a pretty weak spot for ford v10's as mine only has 41000 miles on it and then no power. I have read quite a few have had to change coils and plugs at 50000 miles. Might want to give it a try.

Good luck!

[oldjohnt]

Thanks super, it recently had all new plugs when diagnostics showed lots of misfires, it's not indicating or acting so much that way now, seems like it's not getting enough fuel or an incorrect fuel/air mixture or there's a severe restriction (maybe cat) ???? Oh well I'm sure I will get it going, I will let yall know.

 Nice chatting with you, thanks again for your comments.

 John T

Edited May 15, 2023 by oldjohnt

[oldjohnt]

UPDATE Final I hope ??

 Found the cause of power loss, it was one of my two initial GUESSES 

 CLOGGED UP CATALYTIC CONVERTER

 After fuel pressure checked okay in shop with brakes on trying to simulate load as much as possible,,,,,,,,,,,,,After trying a new fuel filter (may as well while in there no big deal),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,After trying a new MAF sensor,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,After Snap on Analyzer showed no bad or stored engine codes and NO check engine lights,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 Removed cat after which SHE RAN LIKE A CHAMP WITH PLENTY OF POWER NO SPARK KNOCKING wooo hoooo Now it will rev up to 5K or more up a hill in passing gears where before maybe under 4000 when she rattled and went like flat something awful  grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 With cat out of exhaust It (2005 engine) did NOT throw a code as it ONLY has one O2 sensor up ahead of the cat, none in its center, none on its output

 However I am choosing to install a new cat, its pricey but without one it may run cooler at the y pipe or mess with the sensors and computer and/or affect MPG PLUS I JUST LIKE THINGS AS ORIGINAL AND CORRECT in my opinion even if Im wrong lol.......Also if I tried to sell it with a removed cat people would set their hair on fire 

Thanks to everyone who responded

John T Now a Happy but poorer Camper again lol

 

 

[GlennWest]

clogged cat is easy to find. While in park just floor it and watch rpms. They drop.

[RV_]

Grats John T I enjoyed the troubleshooting posts and even better that you licked it.

[Tom_M]

My cat converter was stolen from my 2005 with V10 over a year ago and I decided not to replace it. I put in a section of flex tubing instead and it has run great. Of course if your state requires an emission check you will have to replace it.