Higher end/higher quality Travel Trailers?

[franco-bolli]

I'm suspecting that there will be a plethora of used, relatively new rigs on the market in a year or two, when some newbies get frustrated with their storage costs or lack of use.

I plan to get some miles on my rig this year, and the next year and so on....

I've owned a Arctic Fox 5th wheel (24 5N) for 5 years and sold it to buy the 2017 25W Arctic Fox I've had now for almost 3 years.  Good insulation for 4 seasons, solid build quality and reliable components.  Was it perfect, No. I improved several things on it, like axle/wheel alignment, extra pocket screws for the drawer supports, felt tabs between the doors and cabinets, LED lights inside below the kitchen sink cabinet, pressure tank for the water pump, reseal the roof and several more things. But some of that is just maintenance...
 

I hope you can find a floorplan that fits your lifestyle.

[FlyFishn]

43 minutes ago, franco-bolli said:

I improved several things on it, like axle/wheel alignment, extra pocket screws for the drawer supports, felt tabs between the doors and cabinets, LED lights inside below the kitchen sink cabinet, pressure tank for the water pump, reseal the roof and several more things.

@franco-bolli thanks for the feedback.

Can you detail what you did with the axle alignment? Are you saying the unit was "crabbing" (IE - tracking sideways compared to the tow vehicle)? Or something different?

As to the pressure tank for the water pump - I think that is the way our cabins are. We have a jaccouzi pump with a ballast tank to hold "water pressure" through the property. Did the system you started with run the pump any time there was water demand, period? Did you have to upgrade the pump to one that worked as a system with the ballast tank? Or was just adding a ballast tank sufficient?

[franco-bolli]

The inside of the driverside rear tire was wearing a lot faster than the others. Not significant, but enough to notice. There is a shop I've used in the past in Boise that does semi trailer alignments and other larger vehicle.  The shop "reformed" the axle to bring them more into alignment.  I don't recall the exact amount of adjustment.

Yes the pump is a demand pump, no upgrade from OEM install. With the pressure tank installed I noticed a lot less cycling. Additionally, at night when you don't want to hear it running, the system provides 2 to 3 flushes before the pump comes on.  I put a shut off valve on the tank so that when I winterize, none or the pink juice gets into the tank itself. 

In this model of trailer, the pump is under one of the dinette bench seats and there was sufficient room to secure the tank down next to the pump. It's one of the small tanks that are typically used on top of a water heater outlet.

Cheers,

FB

[FlyFishn]

@franco-bolli Thanks for the details. I'm surprised you get 2-3 flushes before the pump kicks on to recharge. Though, I suppose the RV toilets use a lot less water. I don't know how big ours is at the cabins but the majority of the time when you flush a toilet the pump ends up running towards the end of the flush cycle.

[Kirk W]

25 minutes ago, FlyFishn said:

Though, I suppose the RV toilets use a lot less water.

RV toilets do not have a tank like your house. The operator runs water into the bowl before each use, then runs a bit more after flush to insure an odor seal. 

Proper RV toilet operation.

[FlyFishn]

Continuing the thought process here...

One thing that bothered me about a lot of the units we looked at last weekend was the "hollowness" and "cheapness" - counter tops, sinks, faucets, etc. When we looked at the Montana 5th wheels they had some upgrades in these areas. They were definitely an "upgrade", however the same "hollowness" was there with more of the structure - walls, doors, cabinets and the like. 

Considering what I am calling "upgrades" in the Montanas - it appears from the pictures I'm finding of Grand Design's units - they are on a similar level when it comes to sinks and faucets. The bathroom and kitchen sink, for example, in the following unit are metal, as opposed to obviously being cheap plastic. I like that. I think the better half would prefer porcelain, given the choice and getting that feel in one of the Montanas we looked at, but metal is definitely a step up in quality over plastic.

Of the floorplans I've seen from Grand Design - the following one checks a lot of boxes. I would have to scrap the idea of "no slides", though. It has the island kitchen she wants and I like the desk set up in the rear - a lot - over a lot of the other floor plans. Of course, the catch is the build quality. The best suiting floor plan isn't much of a floor plan if it falls apart in 2 years.

https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2022/travel-trailer/imagine/floorplans/2670mk

With the convertible couch/pull-out bed option we would have extra sleeping capacity.

[dblr]

If you're starting to consider 5th wheels I would suggest you add River Stone to the list from Forest River, built like the DRV and Lux line plus they have different levels to look at, Reserve being the lower end with the Legacy at the top. They are heavy so keep that in mind also.

Riverstone RVs | Forest River RV - Manufacturer of Travel Trailers - Fifth Wheels - Tent Campers - Motorhomes (forestriverinc.com)

 

[FlyFishn]

@dblr Thanks for the link. They have some interesting layouts.

At the moment we're trying to get a feel for build quality and what it is like inside what we are seeing pictures of. To that point - that was what was good about the Montanas - it gave us another benchmark to the feel of everything, in addition to being another form factor (5th wheel vs TT). We aren't ruling out a 5th wheel but that adds complexity to the use case as I need to retain the use of, and enclose, the truck bed. A 5th wheel makes that more work to switch between set ups on each end of where we stay - arrival and departure. That is the tune of another thread I have over in the General forum, essentially, asking if the benefits to handling of a 5th wheel out-weigh handling issues with TT's.

Looking at the Grand Design I linked to above - that size and weight class fits with the truck I have pretty well. That doesn't mean I won't have handling issues, but the GVWR of the trailer is several thousand lbs under the truck's capacity so there is head room there (that trailer can be pulled with a 1/2 ton, my truck is an F350, SRW but still has heavier springs/overloads). And bumper pull would allow me to retain the truck bed as it is today with the cap I have - that is a big plus, but that doesn't make it the "end all, be all" set up. There is a lot more to weed through.

Down the road it might be in the realm of possibilities to upgrade trucks. This has come up a couple times before, but I do have a class A license (no restrictions, doubles/triples/tanks endorsements) and am familiar with the heavier trucks. Between upgrading to a bigger pickup and going to a class 7 or 8 there are a lot of benefits to a 7-8, and setting up a good used truck is probably cheaper than a bigger pickup. Registration, insurance, etc is another matter. With a class 7/singled semi that wouldn't have any earthly limitations on any 5th wheel out there. Adding a toad and/or other gear could be tricky on a 7 given the single drive axle. A tandem (class8) would significantly increase the carrying capacity on the truck - pin weight, hitch, toad, gear, etc. That is way down the road, though, and isn't in the cards for options in the near term.

As far as 5th wheels go - we'd be looking at ones in the mid to low 30' range, but there again that adds complexity to convert between the enclosed truck bed when at some destinations.

[duraduk]

On 1/31/2022 at 6:30 AM, duraduk said:

I've have had a Arctic Fox since 2003 and it has served me well.  I recently thought about getting a newer trailer and after several months of reading I settled on these lines.....Arctic Fox, Outdoor Recreation, Winnebago and Grand Design.  My survey was before the latest RV purchase rush and due to production demands quality has been reported to be sliding on most lines.  Due to the price increases I have decided to stay with my old unit and continue to refurbish it to my needs.

 

On 1/31/2022 at 8:41 AM, FlyFishn said:

@duraduk - Excellent feedback.

Since you have been an owner of a unit for ~19 years - can you please elaborate on your experiences? You mention continuing to "refurbish to your needs" - what do mean specifically with that?

Also, how much do you use the RV? As in - are you using it over 10-20,000 miles a year? Does it sit in a permanent spot at a year-round campground? Does it sit in your side yard under trees and you take it out 2-3 times a year?

What "deteriorations" have you seen? Does it use torsion axles or leaf springs? Have you replaced any suspension/running gear hardware? How about things like mentioned earlier in this thread - the under side of some Forest River units' slides rotting?

Have you had any notable problems with the plumbing? HVAC?

When initially purchased in 2003 in Oregon we used it for weekend and vacation usage.  We also tailgated with it at football games (up to 50 guests) circulating through trailer.  When I retired in 2010 we went on the road for 4 months a year and averaged around 10000 miles traveling through out the west.  In 2018 we went back to part time use due to family health problems but are planning on hitting the road again this year.

Over the years I have remodeled  the interior to fit our needs.  This includes the moving of the couch, removing the free standing dining table.  We added reclining swivel chairs and use tv trays to eat inside.  We added cabinets inside. 

We have also added a 400 watts of solar, inverter, and I have a Yamaha generator to the rear.  Now living in Texas and the weather has required that I add a portable AC to assist in cooling off the bedroom in the summer. 

The trailer has always been stored under cover and we also use it as a guest house when we have company visiting. 

I used to maintain the wheel bearings myself but now have it done.  When I traveled on a longer basis the bearings lubed every year.  Now every other year.  I had to replace a slide motor back in 2007.  It broke a leaf spring in 2010. The oven needed a new thermo couple.  I had the wheel bearing and brakesreplaced last year.  I've added 16" tires and wheels due to the weight of the rig being close to the 15" tire rating.  I experienced a little dry rot on the bottom edge of the living room slide.  I discovered that a seal did not cover completely.  I fixed the problem myself.  I've replaced the water heater circuit board.

My current plans included the additional of a portable AC,  replacing the leaf springs, general touch up of metal fixtures

(jacks/steps/hitch)  additional solar and a good buffing of the fiberglass. 

The unit is a Arctic Fox 30U which is no longer made.  It was one of the first of the rear lounge trailers at the time. It has a full width bath, a large living room slide, and a small bedroom slide (motor replaced).  It is 32 foot and is quite heavy.  It weighs about 12,000 lbs and has about 1400 lb tongue weight.  It is all wood framed.  It has been towed occasionally on dirt roads.  After replacing the 15" tires and wheels (numerous blow outs due to the tire weight capacity being marginal) I have replaced the tires twice.   I tow using a E-QUAL-I-ZER WD hitch and experience no sway. I tow with a 2012 Ram srw mega cab with snug top shell.

The new trailers emphasize being light and IMHO a lot of the frames are substandard and are not heavy enough for long term ownership and use.     The newer 30U's have metal wall frames.  I paid around 30K when new.  

 

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2013-Northwood-Mfg-ARCTIC-FOX-30U-5019239962

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by duraduk

[Kirk W]

On 2/2/2022 at 6:23 PM, FlyFishn said:

At the moment we're trying to get a feel for build quality and what it is like inside what we are seeing pictures of.

You really can't compare the fixtures of most RVs to those found in your house since weight is not a consideration with a house but is of critical importance to the manufacture of RVs. Solid wood is both expensive and heavy in order to get the same structural strength as compared to manufactured materials. That same thing is true for sinks and counter tops. If you take a look at Liberty Coach or Marathon Coach you will find lots of things just like in a house and they have a gross weight of 60k. If you look at New Horizons fifth wheel you find a lot of the same thing but they are also mostly pulled by heavy trucks as well. You just can't build an RV in the weight and price of the Montana and use those materials. 

[FlyFishn]

@duraduk - Excellent information!

Can you elaborate on your AC options? I assume the RV has one on top then the "portable AC" is in addition? Why go with a portable instead of on top? I suppose if the ducting isn't there for a 2nd unit that might preclude a roof top unit.

@Kirk W - Thanks for the info. That is a good point and something that we are taking to heart on our search. When it comes to the density/sturdiness of things I am probably the most picky of the two of us there - I tend to think of the bigger picture and "what is behind it". But you are bringing up an important point on the weight issue. To that point - if all of our realistic options are in that "boat" then we need to consider what the options are between brands and what we can live with. As mentioned before - she would be happier with porcelain sinks but if those aren't realistic and metal is - metal would hold up better than plastic. 

[Kirk W]

If you want to see what lasts well and what doesn't, spend some time looking at RVs that are 10 or more years old. You can learn a great deal by noting the brand names of things which seem to always look good and those of things that never look good. And look closely when you see that one in perfect condition as it might be a replacement that is almost new, rather than original.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Kirk W

[duraduk]

1 hour ago, FlyFishn said:

@duraduk - Excellent information!

Can you elaborate on your AC options? I assume the RV has one on top then the "portable AC" is in addition? Why go with a portable instead of on top? I suppose if the ducting isn't there for a 2nd unit that might preclude a roof top unit.

@Kirk W - Thanks for the info. That is a good point and something that we are taking to heart on our search. When it comes to the density/sturdiness of things I am probably the most picky of the two of us there - I tend to think of the bigger picture and "what is behind it". But you are bringing up an important point on the weight issue. To that point - if all of our realistic options are in that "boat" then we need to consider what the options are between brands and what we can live with. As mentioned before - she would be happier with porcelain sinks but if those aren't realistic and metal is - metal would hold up better than plastic. 

I have the standard 15000 btu AC over the living room.  It is ducted.  In Texas summers the front bedroom stays too hot and the air doesn't move well there.  I have used fans but later decided on a portable 5,000 btu AC.  The solar panels installed on the roof prohibit the installation in the bedroom vent.  I installed the solar before I new I needed additional AC.  In addition I only have 30 amp service which will not run two AC's at the same time.  So I improvised and purchased an external unit initially used for dog kennels and tear drop trailers.  I duct it through the bedroom door.  I plug it in to a 15 amp outlet.  Unfortunately due to the supply chain they are no longer available from china.    https://climateright.com/products/cr5000ach?variant=34672044343448

Edited February 4, 2022 by duraduk

[lappir]

4 hours ago, duraduk said:

I have the standard 15000 btu AC over the living room.  It is ducted.  In Texas summers the front bedroom stays too hot and the air doesn't move well there.  I have used fans but later decided on a portable 5,000 btu AC.  The solar panels installed on the roof prohibit the installation in the bedroom vent.  I installed the solar before I new I needed additional AC.  In addition I only have 30 amp service which will not run two AC's at the same time.  So I improvised and purchased an external unit initially used for dog kennels and tear drop trailers.  I duct it through the bedroom door.  I plug it in to a 15 amp outlet.  Unfortunately due to the supply chain they are no longer available from china.    https://climateright.com/products/cr5000ach?variant=34672044343448

Standard RV HVAC units have not changed much for way too many years. I had a "Basement" unit installed when I built my Spacecraft, because I didn't want anything on the roof interfering with planned Solar installation at some point in the future. That unit lasted only 3 years and was marginal at best in the hottest area and sorely insufficient when it was cold.  I replaced it with a Mini Split system and have had 3+ years of comfort in the Hottest and Coldest climates an RV is usually used in. I would never buy another rig with the roof top units that are  loud, inefficient and require a large hole in the roof for placement. 

 

Rod 

[FlyFishn]

6 hours ago, duraduk said:

The solar panels installed on the roof prohibit the installation in the bedroom vent.  I installed the solar before I new I needed additional AC.  In addition I only have 30 amp service which will not run two AC's at the same time.

Excellent info! I wouldn't have thought about that with the solar panels. Alternative energy is something I've been interested in for years. I've seen some of the solar options on some RV's on the market and they do look interesting, though I haven't done enough research in tot hem. When it comes to that aspect I am more apt to set something up of my own creation anyway. In the sense of the discussion here - I would be tempted to get good AC capacity (2 units) from the get-go and forego the solar stuff. We do have generators so remote power is no issue in that sense, but that doesn't speak to alternative energy options - that would have to be thought through and set up later (wind and solar), depending on use cases.

[FlyFishn]

1 hour ago, lappir said:

Standard RV HVAC units have not changed much for way too many years. I had a "Basement" unit installed when I built my Spacecraft, because I didn't want anything on the roof interfering with planned Solar installation at some point in the future. That unit lasted only 3 years and was marginal at best in the hottest area and sorely insufficient when it was cold.  I replaced it with a Mini Split system and have had 3+ years of comfort in the Hottest and Coldest climates an RV is usually used in. I would never buy another rig with the roof top units that are  loud, inefficient and require a large hole in the roof for placement. 

Thanks for the detail. What is the brand/model, if you have it, of the mini split you are using? I'd be interested to look it up.

As far as heating goes, though - I'd probably be interested in a propane furnace to start with. Then run separate AC. Still learning on what things are on those fronts.

[sandsys]

3 hours ago, FlyFishn said:

Thanks for the detail. What is the brand/model, if you have it, of the mini split you are using? I'd be interested to look it up.

As far as heating goes, though - I'd probably be interested in a propane furnace to start with. Then run separate AC. Still learning on what things are on those fronts.

Propane furnaces tend to be noisy so many of us don't like them in our rigs. Factory installed A/C units tend to be noisy as well. Generators are always noisy so many neighbors don't like them either, especially if your exhaust flows towards their rigs. Solar power, fans, and electric heaters make little, if any, noise. Fortunately, not everyone is as sensitive to noise as I am so can make do with what they get.

Linda

[lappir]

13 hours ago, FlyFishn said:

Thanks for the detail. What is the brand/model, if you have it, of the mini split you are using? I'd be interested to look it up.

As far as heating goes, though - I'd probably be interested in a propane furnace to start with. Then run separate AC. Still learning on what things are on those fronts.

I have an LG Brand not sure of the model number. The ODU (Outside Unit) supplies both an 18000 and a 9000 BTU IDU (Indoor Units). 

The larger one is a low something that is connected to the Spacecraft ceiling duct and provides the majority of the heating and cooling. I have the 9000 mounted on the wall in my Bed/living room and don't really have to use it but it does  radiate the hot or cold going through it's system even if the fan isn't running. I have it set at 2 to 4 degrees higher or lower than the main unit (depending on season). 

It's 14 degrees this morning and my thermometer on my desk shows 68 degrees. It's in the furthest away area of the rig from the main IDU. I could have it higher, but I did use more than the allotted electric in January so I'm trying February with it set 2 degrees lower. I'm a cold weather person and have yet to wear a coat for any length of time, especially if I'm just going from my house to my car and then the car to work. ( I do have a coat, gloves, insulated bibs in the Jeep, just incase.)

I haven't been to a major RV show since leaving Tallahassee 3 years ago. I know Spacecraft's latest "Show Model" at the Tampa RV Show has had a Mini Split in it for many years now. The last time I was there it also had a large battery bank and had everything in the coach running (including the mini split) and they had the power cord hanging in front of a window to show it was not plugged in. 

I don't have the battery bank (yet) that will allow me to do that, but it has been my plan for a while. 

Not sure when the "Commercial" manufactures will get on board with the mini split systems. I'm pretty sure New Horizions is now using them in addition to Spacecraft. 

I have a Propane furnace that was installed after the fact and I hated it when ever it ran. I was in South and North Florida and to me the temperatures were not low enough for it to kick in, but the piece of Junk Basement HVAC unit installed new in my rig would not allow me to change the setting of when to use the propane. It was a heat pump that according to the builder was sufficient for the Upper Midwest for 4 seasons. That fact was immediately proved wrong 4 days after delivery when I parked it in Iowa and found it not just "Inefficient" but unacceptable as well. 500 miles later the rig was back at the factory and  they put in the propane furnace. The worst part is they accepted my suggestions on how to do it and that probably resulted in my having to replace my HVAC system in less than 4 years of ownership. 

Off on a tangent, sorry. It still bothers me. 

 

Rod 

[Kirk W]

The reason that RV furnaces tend to be noisy is that they use a 12V-dc motor which means that it is small and runs very fast in order to move enough air. Compare that to the large size of a home furnace with a bigger 120V-ac motor that doesn't turn nearly as fast There are propane catalytic heaters that don't use any 12V power and are noiseless but the negative side of them is that they contribute a lot of moisture to the inside of the RV and in cold weather than can become a major problem. They work best if wintering out on the desert. 

[duraduk]

Have you considered a Toy Hauler?  They offer many floor plan options, easy modification at the rear and heavier frames.

[lappir]

30 minutes ago, duraduk said:

Have you considered a Toy Hauler?  They offer many floor plan options, easy modification at the rear and heavier frames.

Most of the Toy Haulers are made for weekend use only and not every weekend in a year in my opinion. I had one, used two and they were not made for full time travel. 

Rod

[FlyFishn]

@lappir - Thanks for the detail. No worries on the tangents. Those tangents are good to "step in your shoes" a bit and that is a valuable perspective for me.

@Kirk W - Thanks for the detail. That is good to know.

@duraduk - We are curious about toy haulers, however we have not seen one yet that we could do with. The main thing there is we want separate living space and garage space. All the small ones we've seen combine the living space with the garage in transport mode. We do want to see more options there, though, because there are a lot of pluses to them as you point out that would suit the "gear hauling" aspect of what I am after.
 

[FlyFishn]

An update for today:

We went to another dealer today and looked at some Grand Design TT's - 2 Imagines and a Reflection. They are definitely a step up from the Springdales (Keystone products) that we looked at the weekend before. The Grand Design's felt a lot more solid - cabinets, counters, dinette tables, etc.

I did find that the "metal sinks" that I saw in the pictures are fake. The sinks are composite with a skin that is either a very thin metal film or another imitation material to look like it. That doesn't sit well with me, but considering a lot of the other things we saw and felt with them I am pleased to see the quality for comparison and feel they are, in fact, a step up in quality - considering the "weight class".

I inspected the slides pretty close and the sealing of them. I am very unimpressed and concerned after seeing them move and how the seals work. That might just be me being overly "picky", but the "detailed person" in me says the slide seals need work to seal better - especially in cold weather. Taking the concern of the poor sealing to another level - I could see daylight through the corners from inside. And the slide floors were OSB. That screams "rot recipe". I would be curious how replaceable the slide floors would be - IE if you tear things down (can you tear things down?) to gain access to that wood OSB panel - is it replaceable? I'll have to detail that. I did not think of that detail until after the fact, but did get from the dealer that the slide seals and mechanisms are serviceable/replaceable.

Overall today was a really productive day for us. We're glad we spent the time we did today and walked away with some good perspectives. We're happy with the amount of space in some of the "smaller" TT's with the slides - under 30'. The Reflection we looked at was 34' with opposing slides in the living room/kitchen area and it was very roomy. The better half loved the kitchen. Though there are a lot of possibilities there, I think we're going to be better off with a smaller unit. We are both comfortable with the space in, say, the Imagine 2600RB. They are going to get us to a 2670MK to compare - looks like another location has something coming available to take a look at, they had one that was dealer order that had already been sold at the place closest to us so that's out but they have other locations. We'll see how that goes.

We still want to check out other options - and to a point that was made earlier - some used units, even pretty old units, so we can better form our overall perspectives on how things hold up (or not), how things were made vs now, etc, etc. If I had to settle today for an RV based on the feel of things, layout, and going in with a deeper philosophy of making upgrades/improvements as we go I would say I am happy with Grand Design. Though, as has been discussed - and the root of the thread - there are a lot of factors and some things we really need to analyze and pick through.

Oh - last note - I was not able to inspect frames sufficiently. The RV's we looked at were all "arctic rated" and the underbellys were sealed. The only framing exposed was the V to the coupler and the leveling jack mounts. I did take pictures of the rear leveling jack mount on one of the RV's - it looked like Lippert put someone on that task for welding practice. For that assembly, that doesn't bother me much really. I would be a bit bummed if something like that failed, but that is relatively easy to fix (easy to get to) and the stuff to do it would already be with me. The welds I did see on the heavier parts (again, few due to the sealed underbelly) were nice. Axles on the smaller units were 4400lb. That is adequate for the units we looked at (8495lb GVWR and under, 7495 on the smallest). I did not pay attention to tires - someone mentioned that earlier here or another thread I had going about that in that RV manufacturers use the cheapest tires. That would be an excellent thing to have lined up to replace right off the bat - better tires.

[lappir]

14 hours ago, FlyFishn said:

An update for today:

We went to another dealer today and looked at some Grand Design TT's - 2 Imagines and a Reflection. They are definitely a step up from the Springdales (Keystone products) that we looked at the weekend before. The Grand Design's felt a lot more solid - cabinets, counters, dinette tables, etc.

I did find that the "metal sinks" that I saw in the pictures are fake. The sinks are composite with a skin that is either a very thin metal film or another imitation material to look like it. That doesn't sit well with me, but considering a lot of the other things we saw and felt with them I am pleased to see the quality for comparison and feel they are, in fact, a step up in quality - considering the "weight class".

I inspected the slides pretty close and the sealing of them. I am very unimpressed and concerned after seeing them move and how the seals work. That might just be me being overly "picky", but the "detailed person" in me says the slide seals need work to seal better - especially in cold weather. Taking the concern of the poor sealing to another level - I could see daylight through the corners from inside. And the slide floors were OSB. That screams "rot recipe". I would be curious how replaceable the slide floors would be - IE if you tear things down (can you tear things down?) to gain access to that wood OSB panel - is it replaceable? I'll have to detail that. I did not think of that detail until after the fact, but did get from the dealer that the slide seals and mechanisms are serviceable/replaceable.

Overall today was a really productive day for us. We're glad we spent the time we did today and walked away with some good perspectives. We're happy with the amount of space in some of the "smaller" TT's with the slides - under 30'. The Reflection we looked at was 34' with opposing slides in the living room/kitchen area and it was very roomy. The better half loved the kitchen. Though there are a lot of possibilities there, I think we're going to be better off with a smaller unit. We are both comfortable with the space in, say, the Imagine 2600RB. They are going to get us to a 2670MK to compare - looks like another location has something coming available to take a look at, they had one that was dealer order that had already been sold at the place closest to us so that's out but they have other locations. We'll see how that goes.

We still want to check out other options - and to a point that was made earlier - some used units, even pretty old units, so we can better form our overall perspectives on how things hold up (or not), how things were made vs now, etc, etc. If I had to settle today for an RV based on the feel of things, layout, and going in with a deeper philosophy of making upgrades/improvements as we go I would say I am happy with Grand Design. Though, as has been discussed - and the root of the thread - there are a lot of factors and some things we really need to analyze and pick through.

Oh - last note - I was not able to inspect frames sufficiently. The RV's we looked at were all "arctic rated" and the underbellys were sealed. The only framing exposed was the V to the coupler and the leveling jack mounts. I did take pictures of the rear leveling jack mount on one of the RV's - it looked like Lippert put someone on that task for welding practice. For that assembly, that doesn't bother me much really. I would be a bit bummed if something like that failed, but that is relatively easy to fix (easy to get to) and the stuff to do it would already be with me. The welds I did see on the heavier parts (again, few due to the sealed underbelly) were nice. Axles on the smaller units were 4400lb. That is adequate for the units we looked at (8495lb GVWR and under, 7495 on the smallest). I did not pay attention to tires - someone mentioned that earlier here or another thread I had going about that in that RV manufacturers use the cheapest tires. That would be an excellent thing to have lined up to replace right off the bat - better tires.

Nice write up on your experience. 

Remember everything you see that causes you discomfort is what they are not worried about. The totally sealed underbelly is most likely  a corrugated plastic similar to a cardboard box that's affixed to the who knows what and is usually impossible to get off in one piece, especially if you happen to expose it to rain, snow, salt or a myriad of other things usually tossed up from the roadway. It looks very good sitting there brand new when it's only movement has been in a parking lot and then loaded onto a trailer to bring it to the dealership. 

I didn't think about many of those things looking for my first "RV". Now I try to share it with everyone. 

Back to the "Salt" on the roads. My trailer was built in 2013. I'd hoped it would be ready for the HDT Rally in October, but it was November before I picked it up near Kansas City, MO. The transfer of ownership took a couple days at the factory. The weather was perfect. Lows in the 50's, Highs in the 70's. I thought it was wonderful. My trip to Iowa had continued "Good" weather, until I was heading to my parking spot in Cedar Rapids, IA and the weather turned cold, blustery with snow coming out of the sky. Not having a TV and not listening to commercial radio, I had not heard of the storm approaching so fast. Iowa likes to "Brine" the roads in preparation for freezing precipitation and there was no way to avoid it. My trailer was bathed in the stuff for 80 miles to my destination, and the temperatures continued to fall. There was no way to wash it off, so it stayed there for almost 2 months. 

My prior post regarding the HVAC system and the actually 1000 mile trip was also during the "Salted" roads time. I finally was able to pull into a truck wash in Georgia I think, on the way to South Florida. 

Moral of the story. Think about the weather you will be spending time in your rig and try them out during all if you can. 

 

Rod

[FlyFishn]

2 hours ago, lappir said:

Moral of the story. Think about the weather you will be spending time in your rig and try them out during all if you can. 

Excellent info. I didn't mention this in my previous post, but I did notice some light rust on the framing around the leveling jack frames/welds sitting in the dealers' lot. So what ever process they do to coat the frames doesn't appear to be all that great.

As to the covered underbelly - I can appreciate what you said. Yeah, they can end up trapping junk in places you don't want it to be sitting for years = accelerates rot/rust.
 

As to weather we'll be in - everything from the heat of the summer to the cold/snow/ice of winter (though probably not nearly as much as the summer heat - but I'm sure we will encounter some).