Hayes control issue

chief916 · July 1, 2019

I noticed last week that my Hayes brake controller was starting to do a fast clicking noise and my trailer brakes were a little iffy. I checked all my wiring and it all looked good. I installed it maybe 18 months ago and everything worked fine. Now....not so good. The only wire I didn't connect was the red wire and it worked fine all this time.

Have any of you ever had this problem before?

Thanks

Ben.... chief916

mr. cob · July 2, 2019

Howdy Ben,

The only problem I have had with mine is a bad ground wire connection within the plug. It was intermittent but needed to be fixed one day while moving the wire loom the red light came on, I moved the wires again and it went off. I disconnected the plug and found that one of the wires I can't remember the color was not well seated in the plug, made sure the wire was seated and its worked well ever since.

Dave

Alie&Jim's Carrilite · July 2, 2019

Ben,

Pull the unit out and remove the cover. If you have the old style with a spring laid against the coil, check for a burned spot. If you have the new circuit board style, then I have no clue.

NeverEasy · July 3, 2019

I have had the old and the new types on my truck. It is easy to distinguish which you have. The old style required a ground wire to be attached externally to the case. The new style has a white wire installed to use for ground.

I have a DC digital volt and ammeter on the blue wire so I can see what goes to the trailer. The old-style power to the trailer came and went at different brake pedal pressure or manual push of the bypass. I opened it and cleaned the rheostat and wiper. It got better but still dropped out at times. I bought the new style and things got better for a while and then things started doing just about the same thing. The new one still has a rheostat but a much smaller version so it might need to be cleaned as well. At the National HDT Rally, I bought a new Max Brake Controller from another member and installed it and all is well now.

You will not need the red wire unless you want it to turn on the truck brake lights when the trailer brakes come on. The red wire can be used to check for 12VDC going to the controller as it is attached to a copper contact such that any slight actuation of the device would cause brake lights to come on if attached. The connection for those contacts are right next to the 12VDC input wire.

Also, the red LED on the controller will glow bright if the trailer is disconnected (open circuit voltage) at any braking level and intensity will increase with increased braking with the trailer connected.

My suggestion:

Check 12VDC in and, as Dave said, check the ground. The new style has a white wire for ground already included. However, that ground wire is too small of gauge to suit me. I would install another 12 AWG ground wire directly to the device anyway.

Then buy some DexoIT Spray Contact Cleaner and clean the rheostat. As an alternative, clean with alcohol and then apply some DeoxIT Gold. DexoIT is expensive but only requires a small amount to work. It also works great on the trailer/truck connector.

And a word to those who might want to go to disc brakes. The Hayes is not compatible with disc brakes. The gain of the Hayes is not controllable. It will lock up the disc brakes unless you can limit the output. Before the Max Brake install, I had to tape a block of wood to the manual control knob to stop it from going past the point where it locked up the trailer brakes.

GlennWest · July 3, 2019

I had trouble with my Hayes unit. Upset me. I replace electric brakes with Disk and installed Blue Dot Air over Hydralic. I have no brake problem anynmore. And there is no lag when applying brakes with the Blue Dot system. I always got a bump when using Hayes system. Did on puckup too

chief916 · July 8, 2019

On 7/2/2019 at 4:02 PM, mr. cob said:

Howdy Ben,

The only problem I have had with mine is a bad ground wire connection within the plug. It was intermittent but needed to be fixed one day while moving the wire loom the red light came on, I moved the wires again and it went off. I disconnected the plug and found that one of the wires I can't remember the color was not well seated in the plug, made sure the wire was seated and its worked well ever since.

Dave

Hi Dave....I checked for a bad ground wire this weekend and found no evidence of a fault. So I pulled the unit like Jim said and checked for burned spots...did not see any so from there I did what Nevereasy said. There was what looked like white crud or something on the stick were it contacts against another piece, and please forgive me here cause I'm not so savvy on electrical stuff and jargon, but I Deoxed all rubbing and moving surfaces with Q-tip's. Thought that did the job but on the way home I noticed the chatter from the controller was still evident also I could feel the trailer brakes were pulsing while I was in cruise. I jiggled the controller stick and the Jonny stick....sometimes it would stop chattering and sometimes it wouldn't. I use to be able to hold the rig on a incline using the Jonny stick but it won't do it now. As for what Glenn had mentioned about the blue dot system...I don't plan to keep this coach but for a short time...maybe another 18 months or so. I'm not sure if an investment in that system would be worth it.

If anything....I have some friends that were pretty sharp Avionics techs back when in the service. I get them to check it as well and if they can't find anything....I'll probably just buy a new one and see what happens from there.

Thank you to all of you for your insight and knowledge.

Ben

chief916 · July 10, 2019

Ok.....update. talked to techrep at Hayes and he told me to measure voltage on blue wire. The wire was 2.4 volts or so when at rest. When I engaged the brake nob fully it was 12.48 or close. I couldn't get the controller to show any graduation on voltage. 2.4 at rest and 12.48 or so when I engaged and slowly brought it all the way up.

Been thinking about a tuson brake controller. Tried one about 18 months ago but couldn't get it to work. So I sent it back. I didn't know it at the time but my ECM was fouled up. Cruise wouldn't engage. Finally replaced ECM and everything is working so thinking I might try the direclink again. Could not get much info on our resources guide so if anyone wants to chime in about the Tuscon Direclink....please feel free to do so.

Ben...chief916

Lou Schneider · July 11, 2019

You need a load on the blue wire to accurately measure what voltage the controller is putting out to the trailer.

chief916 · July 11, 2019

11 hours ago, Lou Schneider said:

You need a load on the blue wire to accurately measure what voltage the controller is putting out to the trailer.

Lou... I'm not real good with electrical stuff but tell me if im wrong...by putting a load on it I'm guessing I would hook everything back up and then use a meter by putting the red probe end into the blue wire and grounding the black probe end to a hard ground. Then power up the system and read the voltages. Is this correct?

Ben... chief 916

noteven · July 11, 2019

When I get my pre ordered electric tow vehicle with 900 torques and 18k payload and 1500 mile range my little KW dually has,

I am retrofitting the Fiver / fifth / trailer with wheel motors for trailer assist on upgrades and regen braking on the gravity assisted downgrades.

I will interlock through the on board LAN wifi to play the driver seat view sound of a no mufflers Cummins C-Brake whenever in regen mode. But it won’t play outside the truck.

Should work.

Lou Schneider · July 11, 2019

35 minutes ago, chief916 said:

Lou... I'm not real good with electrical stuff but tell me if im wrong...by putting a load on it I'm guessing I would hook everything back up and then use a meter by putting the red probe end into the blue wire and grounding the black probe end to a hard ground. Then power up the system and read the voltages. Is this correct?

Ben... chief 916

That's correct. The reason is the voltage delivered by the controller is the ratio of the resistance between the controller and the load.

With a load connected you'll see a full range of voltage on the blue wire as you advance the controller's knob.

Without a load, there's nothing for the controller to work against so you'll only see two voltages, on (12 volts) or off (0 volts).

mr. cob · July 11, 2019

17 minutes ago, noteven said:

When I get my pre ordered electric tow vehicle with 900 torques and 18k payload and 1500 mile range my little KW dually has,

I am retrofitting the Fiver / fifth / trailer with wheel motors for trailer assist on upgrades and regen braking on the gravity assisted downgrades.

I will interlock through the on board LAN wifi to play the driver seat view sound of a no mufflers Cummins C-Brake whenever in regen mode. But it won’t play outside the truck.

Should work.

Howdy noteven,

The music of a Jake should be shared with the world not just savored in your cab. Yes I know, I am not quite right in the head.

Dave

rickeieio · July 11, 2019

2 hours ago, mr. cob said:

The music of a Jake should be shared with the world not just savored in your cab.

We lived next to an interstate interchange, with a gravel pit, for 8 years. Being awakened at 0430 by jokers with straight pipes and jakes has soured me on call it "music."

chief916 · July 12, 2019

8 hours ago, Lou Schneider said:

That's correct. The reason is the voltage delivered by the controller is the ratio of the resistance between the controller and the load.

With a load connected you'll see a full range of voltage on the blue wire as you advance the controller's knob.

Without a load, there's nothing for the controller to work against so you'll only see two voltages, on (12 volts) or off (0 volts).

Will try this and let everyone know tomorrow.

Thank you.