Hayes Air Brake Controller - New Rig has Carlisle elec./hydraulic

[tippey]

Those of you that REALLY wish we all had a great (er) knowledge of our rigs may now reconfirm their wishes. LOL

I just backed up the Volvo to my rig and plugged in to do a very basic lighting check. I asked my wife to first monitor all standard functions looking strickly at the volvo's rear lights. All functions of turn, brake, emergency flasher, work perfectly. THEN I asked her to repeat that same test with me at the rear of the 5th wheel. NOTHING. Nothing for any functions of turning, emergency or brake lights. It could still be a bad ground single wire I suppose or the trailer plug is cross wired in some way. I will pull what info I have on the Carriage side of their wiring (as originally wired of course) And I will check it with the Jackalopee wiring plan. I may still have a professional locate and verify each wire going in and out of the trailer umbilical and to double check if this is all coming down to a grounding issue. I'm no expert and I know exactly enough to want a 2nd opinion but I will still pursue an answer until l can get a mobile service out.

 

None of this may have happened if we had a more typical delivery of the rig. I don't know if the guy from the dealership ever did a safety check before he hitched up to bring the 5th wheel down to us but who knows???

 

Once I know how to test each pin on the trailer side of the 7 pin I might be able to locate the real problem.

[I'mdonewiththis forum]

Tipper, if you look at this drawing you will see which contact does what. On your umbilical you can use a battery and run a wire from the negative terminal to the ground in your plug. Then use another wire and you can test each individual circuit. If you were close to me I would be glad to assist in getting things working right.

Tom

[Big5er]

I would start at the truck. What do the lights on the jackalopee show? Do you have a test light of a multi meter? Do you have power out from there? Next, do you have power at each pin on the 7-pin at the rear of the truck?

If all of that is functional then I would move to the trailer.

[RandyA]

Tipper, I have not been following the thread for the past few days. Sorry to hear things have not gone well.

 

I just finished converting to disc brakes on my fiver and used the "Carsile" actuator. It is another company now (Cargo Hydrastar) but little has changed other than the name so I do have some familiarity with the actuator and wiring.

 

The "thing" in the picture is, as noted, a circuit breaker. Carsile advises a minimum of a 30 amp breaker unless the temperature drops to zero. At zero they want a 40 amp breaker. They want the power to come from the truck independent of the blue brake wire - yes, another wire not normally in the 7 pin connector. Your actuator in the trailer should have a red wire that goes to the breaker in your pic and receives 40 amps directly from the truck battery. This wire should be at least a #8 copper cable and once again will not normally be in your 7 pin connector (connector usually supplies 20 amps for trailer battery charging). My guess is your in trailer actuator possibly does not have the power circuit going to the camper battery, which is also connected to the truck 12 VDC line in the 7-pin. Carsile wants it wired tat way. The black wire is ground and again Carsile wants this to be ground from the truck battery, not the truck frame or camper negative/frame. If the actuator is wired like Carsile specs it will not work unless connected to the truck with the addition of the power wire. The yellow (or blue) wire goes to the cold side of the breakaway switch and if there is a common ground in the trailer it will connect the trailer battery and turn on the actuator if pulled. The blue (or yellow) wire goes to the brake controller and will receive a varying voltage depending on your air pressure to the Hayes and Hayes resistor tap. You can test the Carsile actuator by putting 12 volts to either the blue brake or yellow break away wire (both go to the same point inside the actuator). "If" the power (red) and ground (black) are also common to the trailer (which I believe they should be even if Carsile does not) either yellow or blue will run the actuator. If the ground and power are not also common to the trailer the actuator will not turn on unless connected to the truck. I've got a feeling you do not have a power wire from the truck battery going to the top side of the circuit breaker and the actuator hot is not connected to the trailer battery either. If not, hook the top side of the circuit breaker to the camper battery (yes, that is OK). Also note that the style of circuit breaker shown is not always an auto reset. Some of that shape and size require a manual reset from a small button on the side. I hope that is not the type of breaker you have - for safety it should be an auto reset. Check to be sure. I hope all of this ramble makes sense - it is always a challenge to explain and understand from our distance.

[tippey]

I would start at the truck. What do the lights on the jackalopee show? Do you have a test light of a multi meter? Do you have power out from there? Next, do you have power at each pin on the 7-pin at the rear of the truck?

If all of that is functional then I would move to the trailer.

makes sense. . I read up on my jackalopee this evening and will look at the status leds tomorrow. I have a multi-meter and will try to us MnToms test. Thanks guys. It is much appreciated.

[tippey]

Yes it's crazy to troubleshoot issues between those in the know and those that aren't. LOL But I have to say it is wonderful to have this great resource available when I'm stuck. i figure that those that want to comment or assist will and those that don't wont reply. Seems wonderfully fair to me! LOL

Thank you for your details. I have a mobile service coming tomorrow to double check all of it. More expensive but I know when I don't know enough to just leave it alone.

 

 

 

Tipper, I have not been following the thread for the past few days. Sorry to hear things have not gone well.

 

I just finished converting to disc brakes on my fiver and used the "Carsile" actuator. It is another company now (Cargo Hydrastar) but little has changed other than the name so I do have some familiarity with the actuator and wiring.

 

The "thing" in the picture is, as noted, a circuit breaker. Carsile advises a minimum of a 30 amp breaker unless the temperature drops to zero. At zero they want a 40 amp breaker. They want the power to come from the truck independent of the blue brake wire - yes, another wire not normally in the 7 pin connector. Your actuator in the trailer should have a red wire that goes to the breaker in your pic and receives 40 amps directly from the truck battery. This wire should be at least a #8 copper cable and once again will not normally be in your 7 pin connector (connector usually supplies 20 amps for trailer battery charging). My guess is your in trailer actuator possibly does not have the power circuit going to the camper battery, which is also connected to the truck 12 VDC line in the 7-pin. Carsile wants it wired tat way. The black wire is ground and again Carsile wants this to be ground from the truck battery, not the truck frame or camper negative/frame. If the actuator is wired like Carsile specs it will not work unless connected to the truck with the addition of the power wire. The yellow (or blue) wire goes to the cold side of the breakaway switch and if there is a common ground in the trailer it will connect the trailer battery and turn on the actuator if pulled. The blue (or yellow) wire goes to the brake controller and will receive a varying voltage depending on your air pressure to the Hayes and Hayes resistor tap. You can test the Carsile actuator by putting 12 volts to either the blue brake or yellow break away wire (both go to the same point inside the actuator). "If" the power (red) and ground (black) are also common to the trailer (which I believe they should be even if Carsile does not) either yellow or blue will run the actuator. If the ground and power are not also common to the trailer the actuator will not turn on unless connected to the truck. I've got a feeling you do not have a power wire from the truck battery going to the top side of the circuit breaker and the actuator hot is not connected to the trailer battery either. If not, hook the top side of the circuit breaker to the camper battery (yes, that is OK). Also note that the style of circuit breaker shown is not always an auto reset. Some of that shape and size require a manual reset from a small button on the side. I hope that is not the type of breaker you have - for safety it should be an auto reset. Check to be sure. I hope all of this ramble makes sense - it is always a challenge to explain and understand from our distance.

 

[Hewhoknowslittle]

Tipper, I have not been following the thread for the past few days. Sorry to hear things have not gone well.

 

I just finished converting to disc brakes on my fiver and used the "Carsile" actuator. It is another company now (Cargo Hydrastar) but little has changed other than the name so I do have some familiarity with the actuator and wiring.

 

The "thing" in the picture is, as noted, a circuit breaker. Carsile advises a minimum of a 30 amp breaker unless the temperature drops to zero. At zero they want a 40 amp breaker. They want the power to come from the truck independent of the blue brake wire - yes, another wire not normally in the 7 pin connector. Your actuator in the trailer should have a red wire that goes to the breaker in your pic and receives 40 amps directly from the truck battery. This wire should be at least a #8 copper cable and once again will not normally be in your 7 pin connector (connector usually supplies 20 amps for trailer battery charging). My guess is your in trailer actuator possibly does not have the power circuit going to the camper battery, which is also connected to the truck 12 VDC line in the 7-pin. Carsile wants it wired tat way. The black wire is ground and again Carsile wants this to be ground from the truck battery, not the truck frame or camper negative/frame. If the actuator is wired like Carsile specs it will not work unless connected to the truck with the addition of the power wire. The yellow (or blue) wire goes to the cold side of the breakaway switch and if there is a common ground in the trailer it will connect the trailer battery and turn on the actuator if pulled. The blue (or yellow) wire goes to the brake controller and will receive a varying voltage depending on your air pressure to the Hayes and Hayes resistor tap. You can test the Carsile actuator by putting 12 volts to either the blue brake or yellow break away wire (both go to the same point inside the actuator). "If" the power (red) and ground (black) are also common to the trailer (which I believe they should be even if Carsile does not) either yellow or blue will run the actuator. If the ground and power are not also common to the trailer the actuator will not turn on unless connected to the truck. I've got a feeling you do not have a power wire from the truck battery going to the top side of the circuit breaker and the actuator hot is not connected to the trailer battery either. If not, hook the top side of the circuit breaker to the camper battery (yes, that is OK). Also note that the style of circuit breaker shown is not always an auto reset. Some of that shape and size require a manual reset from a small button on the side. I hope that is not the type of breaker you have - for safety it should be an auto reset. Check to be sure. I hope all of this ramble makes sense - it is always a challenge to explain and understand from our distance.

 

On my DRV the Carslie gets it power and ground from the camper batterys, just like the breakaway works, the truck charges the camper battery, but if you don't hook it up this way the breakaway will not work, no truck, no power.

 

Just my 2 cents, and it has worked on my lgt and my hdt with a jack.

 

Roger

[RickW]

At the ECR a homemade trailer plug tester was being showed off. I did not get any photos of it, hopefully somebody did and will share but the jest of it is this.

 

Start with the truck side (female) 7 blade receptacle. Connect about 2' of wire to each post on the receptacle (except ground). Label each one. Now when you plug this tester into a trailer just connect the 12vdc lead (assuming the trailer has a 12vdc source) to any of the leads to test if the trailer is wired correctly.

 

You should be able to build the tester for under $10 and should only take a few minutes to build. Then I would start with trouble shooting at the trailer. Once you know the trailer is wired correctly then move on to the truck. To test the brake signal just connect the brake lead to the 12vdc power source. If the pump kicks over and runs then the problem is on the truck side.

[RandyA]

 

On my DRV the Carslie gets it power and ground from the camper batterys, just like the breakaway works, the truck charges the camper battery, but if you don't hook it up this way the breakaway will not work, no truck, no power.

 

Just my 2 cents, and it has worked on my lgt and my hdt with a jack.

 

Roger

Yep. I agree. I wired mine that way. But the Carsile manual does not want it that way. Just pointing out the diff and how it would create a problem for a trailer/truck if wired "their way."

[tippey]

HOUSTON- We're a go for launch!

 

Problem (s) found and problem (s) fixed.

 

Yesterday we had a mobile service come in and start from scratch to verify just what's going on with our 7pin harness wiring on both truck and trailer sides. I think that both issues that were fixed stemmed from harness wiring 101 stuff but remember that I've never taken that course!

 

First off the ground wire to the trailer was terrible He made a fresh connection to the chassis with a new terminal and immediately got better meter readings. Then after troubleshooting all the 7 pin functions we found that the trailer side plug would not make a good connection to the truck side socket without 'sending it home' with pressure. He spend some time looking over each spade condition and we lightly roughed up each contact point, retested, etc. Things started to function. Thinking we're good we retested again and I moved the trailer cord as though it's moving around from the wind and we got a break in contact that would make the reverse lights flicker on/off over and over again. Now he decided to find out why there's a back-feed causing the back up lights to light on and off repeatedly. Everything works but this issue shows up. He wants to see if we need a new cord or if there's a problem with the truck side of the 7pin connection. He removed the truck side to get a better look at each wired connector. all looked okay but there's still too much play in the connection of the rubber molded trailer side and the truck side. After messing with it to see if a solid connection can be made he chose to replace the truck side of the 7 pin with a new one. After removing all wires he discovered that there was a single strand of copper that was crossing over at the bottom of the connector housing. Crossing over between pin 7 backup and pin 3 running lights. That explained why we were getting back up lights when we were only testing running lights.

 

So after replacing the truck side receptacle everything it tight and tests perfectly. My wife and I couldn't be happier for getting to the other side of this problem. Fixing a poor ground and replacing a faulty connector combined was our ticket to ride.

 

Thank you all for education us and offering great suggestions. The forum really lives up to it's reputation Thanks to all!

 

Tipper

[I'mdonewiththis forum]

Congrats to you, Sir! Glad it worked out to your satisfaction!! I always hated having to fool around with something to get it working like it should. It just makes things go so much better........

[tippey]

Congrats to you, Sir! Glad it worked out to your satisfaction!! I always hated having to fool around with something to get it working like it should. It just makes things go so much better........

 

Thanks! You are so right. :-)

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

Over ten years we replaced the plugs and receptacles a few times. The cost really isn't that much to have reliable connections.

[GlennWest]

And I I stated earlier that is the reason I went with the metal commercial plugs.

[tippey]

Over ten years we replaced the plugs and receptacles a few times. The cost really isn't that much to have reliable connections.

That's for sure Mark. I never want to risk life at any cost. Our 'new to us' rig has history that we've not put together yet and may never know so we're erring on the side of caution on just about everything until we feel like we know our rig pretty darn well.

[tippey]

And I I stated earlier that is the reason I went with the metal commercial plugs.

I'm learning Glenn. I saw for myself how much excessive tolerance can make all the difference between trouble and paradise. Thanks for the info.

[Big5er]

And I I stated earlier that is the reason I went with the metal commercial plugs.

And if those are the ones I am thinking of, you can not pull anyone else's trailer, nor can they pull yours. That will be a pain if you ever need to bail out a friend, or be bailed out by one.

[GlennWest]

Actually I made an adapter for that. Had the parts laying around.

[rickeieio]

And if those are the ones I am thinking of, you can not pull anyone else's trailer, nor can they pull yours. That will be a pain if you ever need to bail out a friend, or be bailed out by one.

As I mentioned in another thread, BillB. and I were talking about that very subject a few months ago. If you put the Jackalopee under the nose of the 5th, with a metal commercial plug on the input side, and an rv style female on the output side, anyone, from a dually to a full commercial tractor can move you.

[Jack Mayer]

As I mentioned in another thread, BillB. and I were talking about that very subject a few months ago. If you put the Jackalopee under the nose of the 5th, with a metal commercial plug on the input side, and an rv style female on the output side, anyone, from a dually to a full commercial tractor can move you.

I sure do not recommend that. IMO the Jackie needs to be in a sheltered indoor location. I KNOW it is "waterproof" but the best place for it, considering all factors, is in the drivers storage box. If you want to run commercial plugs just make and adapter, OR, put both on the truck (that only solves part of the problem, though). That is my opinion - but I have seen Jackalopees in many locations, and on balance the interior one is best.

[Big5er]

Actually I made an adapter for that. Had the parts laying around.

For which one? So you can pull other trailers or so other people can pull yours? Or both? Seems like a lot of effort to make and store adapters.

 

IMO the Jackie needs to be in a sheltered indoor location. I KNOW it is "waterproof" but the best place for it, considering all factors, is in the drivers storage box.

After having mine fill up with water, I have to agree

[GlennWest]

When I off from work I have a lot of time. But a short cord with ends not very big and I just throw it in truck.

[rickeieio]

For which one? So you can pull other trailers or so other people can pull yours? Or both? Seems like a lot of effort to make and store adapters.

 

After having mine fill up with water, I have to agree

Mine filled with water too. My own fault.

 

Bill and I were discussing putting it in a sheltered location under the nose right at the hitch.