Lubraplate....old habits

[Dollytrolley]

"Grumps" had several tons of habits and a few pounds seemed to be good habits....

 

One of the habits that he was very strict about was Lubraplate general purpose white lithium grease on EVERY fluid filter seal........EVERY one!!!

 

He was the original CIA / NSA spook when it came to knowing if I failed to skip applying Lubraplate to just one filter seal.......he could smell the lack of Lubraplate if skip just one in 20 filters.......

 

We had a bunch of dozers and too many trucks and all of them had too many filters and most of the filters were steel can two piece steel or cast iron housings with paper or fiber / twine elements or some had micro-mesh bronze disk plates that had to be washed with solvent and then blown dry and then had to be reassembled AND then they had to be filled full of the correct fluid and then be reassembled with the correct gasket or 0-ring AND of course Don,t forget to coat the gasket with......Lubraplate...and then all air is purged from the filter BEFORE you start the engine.........if the engine will start......

 

CAT and International dozers seem to have a contest to see how many diesel filters they could line up in a row and I had to change them ALL........AND........make sure that NO air was left in any of the filters or else you could NEVER get one of those darn dozers started......If I followed the correct steps the dozers would start......if....I took a short cut.......bad juju....

 

Fast foreword to last fall and it was time to change the M11 spin-on diesel filter on the Dolleytrolley........so get out my sterile lab beaker and fill it full of freshly polished diesel and BEFORE I fill the filter I apply a thin coat of......Lubraplate to the filter gasket.......of course the M11 fires right up just like I knew what I was doing........

 

So..........then the phone rings at midnight and we have to rescue the mom-n-law that has been evicted from the third memory care center with rage issues........

 

So last week I drive back down to Central Oregon.......I tilt the hood foreword open on the Dollytrolley and check the fluids and look for pack rat nests.......I disconnect the battery-tender and stick the key in and on the third revolution of the engine fan the M11 started and never missed a beat......just like it was just started a hour ago instead of being dormate ALL winter.......

 

Sure modern spin-filters are great for sealing (most of the time) but I wonder IF........just IF.......the Grumps Lubraplate filter fetish still keeps the air from sneaking into dormate filters just as well as the old days.......

 

Drive on..........(The goast of Grumps still lurks .......about)

[Pete Kildow]

Our gasket seal these days are most of it. Way better than the old days, We still have 2 old Tractors with the canaster filters. And if you don't do them right, there will not be any starting . I think your right his ideals worked then and now.

Pete

[rickeieio]

While I don't use Lubriplate for filter seals, I do lube my seals with the appropriate....lube. Fuel filters get "wet up" with fuel, oil filter get a smear of old engine oil, hydraulic filters...and so on.

 

I've been told to always use a finger smear of the old engine oil rather than fresh, as the additives in the fresh may cause the seal to "stick". making removal more difficult. I tend to believe this, as my cousin always uses "fresh", and it's very difficult to remove the canister after he's done so. But then he snugs everything "farmer tight."

 

We have some machines where the manual specifically says not to pre-fill the fuel filters. Install and turn on the key for a minute, and the electric pump will purge the system. Less risk of contaminants I suppose.

[shorts]

I was taught to pre fill spin on filters the same way as the fluid flows thru them, fill thru the small outer row of holes and not thru the large threaded center hole, take your time and all of the prefill fluid will have been filtered when it goes into the appropriate system.

[spindrift]

I was taught to pre fill spin on filters the same way as the fluid flows thru them, fill thru the small outer row of holes and not thru the large threaded center hole, take your time and all of the prefill fluid will have been filtered when it goes into the appropriate system.

 

This. I used to carry different sized rubber stoppers in my service truck specifically for that reason. And I always lubriplate my seals with a very, very thin coat. Good stuff. Too much and it will find itself into the filter and it won't dissolve.

[Dollytrolley]

Our gasket seal these days are most of it. Way better than the old days, We still have 2 old Tractors with the canaster filters. And if you don't do them right, there will not be any starting . I think your right his ideals worked then and now.

Pete

Indeed Pete you do confirm that my "short-cuts" were indeed the sure method to the "long-road-to-NO-starting".........then of course "Grumps" always seemed to know that I had taken the "shortcut" since it took all day to service two dozers out in the boondocks.........

 

Some geezers are hard to fool........

 

Drive on.........("shortcuts" sometimes can be.........longer)

[Imurphy907]

I was always told "lazy people work twice as hard" "Do it right, or do it twice" And as my grandfather was a custom home and cabinet builder "Perfect is acceptable"

[NoDirectionHome]

 

 

I was always told "lazy people work twice as hard"

I was always told, give the hardest job to the laziest guy, he'll find the easiest way to do it.

 

I pre-fill my oil filters as much as possible (some are horizontal) then pull the fuel pump fuse and crank till I have oil pressure. Seem easy after two decades of IndyCar racing having to get to the track early enough to pre-heat the oil and water and crank up oil pressure before starting and pickle the engine with gasoline at the end of everyday to prevent the methanol from corroding everything.

[beyerjf]

Fill the filters through the hole that is easiest. After all it is clean motor oil directly out of the container isn't it? Use that oil to lubricate the rubber gasket. Over tightening causes them to stick. I have hand tightened all the filters on all my trucks for 40 years and never had a leak or had one fall off. Use the same motor oil to lubricate fuel filter gaskets, the fuel will tend to dilute it a bit but how long is it from oil on the rubber to fill with fuel to screw on the base, maybe 2 minutes? Again clean fuel into the hole of choice. House keeping is important in a garage and in habits around any assembly with almost any tolerance, the tighter the tolerance the cleaner the world around it should be.

 

A more important item to deal with is using anti seize on all threads and assemblies unless specifically prohibited. Preferably on clean wire brushed threads. Personally I have put anti seize on all lug nuts for 40 years and never had one of them loosen or fall off either. You will be at that nut and bolt sometime in the future, you can bet on it. The only question is are you going to cut it off or wrench it off.

[Dollytrolley]

Fill the filters through the hole that is easiest. After all it is clean motor oil directly out of the container isn't it? Use that oil to lubricate the rubber gasket. Over tightening causes them to stick. I have hand tightened all the filters on all my trucks for 40 years and never had a leak or had one fall off. Use the same motor oil to lubricate fuel filter gaskets, the fuel will tend to dilute it a bit but how long is it from oil on the rubber to fill with fuel to screw on the base, maybe 2 minutes? Again clean fuel into the hole of choice. House keeping is important in a garage and in habits around any assembly with almost any tolerance, the tighter the tolerance the cleaner the world around it should be.

 

A more important item to deal with is using anti seize on all threads and assemblies unless specifically prohibited. Preferably on clean wire brushed threads. Personally I have put anti seize on all lug nuts for 40 years and never had one of them loosen or fall off either. You will be at that nut and bolt sometime in the future, you can bet on it. The only question is are you going to cut it off or wrench it off.

Jeff right on.....

 

"Grumps" liked Lubraplate mostly because it seemed to keep the reuseable seals and O-rings in two-piece filter cans from sticking in cold or hot operations.

 

I am glad that at least one other person in the world uses never-seize on lug nuts /studs.....like you in over 40 years never had a wheel nut lose because of never-seize.......

 

Four years ago I did have the largest independent tire in the West fail to properly torque the left front wheel on my company pickup and I caught just driving the on ramp to I-5........I pulled over and call them to come out to retorque the wheel......they refused and said I would have to have a tilt-bed load the truck and deliver to them and then I would have to pay for all new nuts and studs. I tore into the tool box a drug out the sockets and torque wrench and found 29 of 32 nuts way under torque in less than 43 miles.........

 

I drove to the dealer and they were pretty sour and did not want to fix the problem without $$$$ my pickup did not have any company logo so they just assumed that it was just some geek that had no choice.........well I did have a choice.......I drove over to NAPA and bought 8 new studs and nuts ......drove the new studs in and retorqued the wheel.........then when I got back to the office I sent a memo out and instructing the small company fleet that we were changing our $900k / yr tire and brake business to a new company..........there is more than one way to tighten....NUTS!!

 

Drive on.........(Mind the........nuts)

[Imurphy907]

Fill the filters through the hole that is easiest. After all it is clean motor oil directly out of the container isn't it? Use that oil to lubricate the rubber gasket. Over tightening causes them to stick. I have hand tightened all the filters on all my trucks for 40 years and never had a leak or had one fall off. Use the same motor oil to lubricate fuel filter gaskets, the fuel will tend to dilute it a bit but how long is it from oil on the rubber to fill with fuel to screw on the base, maybe 2 minutes? Again clean fuel into the hole of choice. House keeping is important in a garage and in habits around any assembly with almost any tolerance, the tighter the tolerance the cleaner the world around it should be.

 

A more important item to deal with is using anti seize on all threads and assemblies unless specifically prohibited. Preferably on clean wire brushed threads. Personally I have put anti seize on all lug nuts for 40 years and never had one of them loosen or fall off either. You will be at that nut and bolt sometime in the future, you can bet on it. The only question is are you going to cut it off or wrench it off.

 

 

I will tell you right now if you were a DOT inspected vehicle you would be side lined. Anti Seize is not an approved thread lubricant for wheel lugs. No lubricant is approved for wheel lugs. The only time lubricant is required or authorized is to place a small amount of oil between the nut and capture washer on hub piloted nut assemblies. Working in the tire industry I have been called out to many weight stations to remove wheel assemblies and clean off all the anti seize put on by guys in their driveways.

[rickeieio]

 

I will tell you right now if you were a DOT inspected vehicle you would be side lined. Anti Seize is not an approved thread lubricant for wheel lugs. No lubricant is approved for wheel lugs. The only time lubricant is required or authorized is to place a small amount of oil between the nut and capture washer on hub piloted nut assemblies. Working in the tire industry I have been called out to many weight stations to remove wheel assemblies and clean off all the anti seize put on by guys in their driveways.

You might want to check out to whom you are replying.......................I believe he's familiar with DOT.

 

I too, use anti-seize on nearly every fastener, including wheel lugs/bolts. I have many wheels far larger and under more strain than on our trucks. I've yet to have one loosen.

[Ronbo]

After a search, there are no DOT regulations AGAINST using anti seize. It is not addressed. Also recommends oil on the studs and gives two different torque values. This is right up there with the insurance company no paying if you are over weight. Often repeated but never proven.

[Imurphy907]

ITRA was always very pointed about it. And like I said I have spent many hours cleaning studs.
YMMV

[Dollytrolley]

ITRA was always very pointed about it. And like I said I have spent many hours cleaning studs.

YMMV

Often it seems that some inspection stations have a pet peeve and often the wheels and tires are rightful targets.

 

We leased a fair selection of large wheel carrier cranes that were often used in the public use contracting .

 

One day one of the cranes was rumbling down the freeway out in the middle of nowhere when it was decided that the two pilot cars and the crane would stop and use the restrooms at the scale / inspection station......during the stop a couple of the inspectors seemed impressed with the huge carrier and during the walk around they noted never seize on the very large lugs on ALL seven axles. The inspectors confronted the crane operator as he came out of the rest room and told him that his unit would be out of service until the never seize was removed from ALL seven axle units.......gulp....

 

The REAL problem was the the crane was designed and built in Germany and that one of the flag car drivers was a factory German mechanic......uh ho.......American inspector meets hard-headed German factory mechanic and NO one is removing the never seize from his nuts......so the crane operator knew that the limited vocabulary of English mixed with the words "dunbkoff" was only going to make matters worse......and to make things more dicey the mechanic gets out one of the huge manuals to show the inspectors that the never seize was REQUIRED on every wheel and nut /stud assembly........of course the page of the manual was printed in German and so the inspectors could not decipher on of the page full of 38 letter words........the German mechanic made matters worse by saying that even being a lowly technician even he could read English, French, Spanish and of course the farther land lingo......

 

Finally a few phone calls were made and the end use customer (DOD) explained to the inspectors that the nuts were fine with ever the factory mechanic smeared on them......and people wonder why I have grey hair.....

 

Drive on........(Don't let the inspectors see your.......wheel fasteners )

[beyerjf]

In the 40 years of being inspected countless times levels 1 2 and 3 I have never heard of such an out of service order. What I have experienced is several inspectors who interpret any and all regulations to suit whatever agenda they have in mind, knowing full well we are at their mercy and can do little to fight it unless a ticket is issued which it rarely is.

I have hauled numerous brand new trailers which have the lugs lubricated at the plant which leave clear stains on the wheels after a few hundred miles. I doubt that all of the major trailer manufacturers are ignorant of the law.

[Jack Mayer]

Jeff, reading your post brings to mind my "philosophy". NOTHING good ever happens in a weigh station. That is why I stay away. They are a necessary evil, but too much of a chance of meeting someone that has an important perspective. A perspective of their own.

[ray.service]

Often it seems that some inspection stations have a pet peeve and often the wheels and tires are rightful targets.

 

We leased a fair selection of large wheel carrier cranes that were often used in the public use contracting .

 

One day one of the cranes was rumbling down the freeway out in the middle of nowhere when it was decided that the two pilot cars and the crane would stop and use the restrooms at the scale / inspection station......during the stop a couple of the inspectors seemed impressed with the huge carrier and during the walk around they noted never seize on the very large lugs on ALL seven axles. The inspectors confronted the crane operator as he came out of the rest room and told him that his unit would be out of service until the never seize was removed from ALL seven axle units.......gulp....

 

The REAL problem was the the crane was designed and built in Germany and that one of the flag car drivers was a factory German mechanic......uh ho.......American inspector meets hard-headed German factory mechanic and NO one is removing the never seize from his nuts......so the crane operator knew that the limited vocabulary of English mixed with the words "dunbkoff" was only going to make matters worse......and to make things more dicey the mechanic gets out one of the huge manuals to show the inspectors that the never seize was REQUIRED on every wheel and nut /stud assembly........of course the page of the manual was printed in German and so the inspectors could not decipher on of the page full of 38 letter words........the German mechanic made matters worse by saying that even being a lowly technician even he could read English, French, Spanish and of course the farther land lingo......

 

Finally a few phone calls were made and the end use customer (DOD) explained to the inspectors that the nuts were fine with ever the factory mechanic smeared on them......and people wonder why I have grey hair.....

 

Drive on........(Don't let the inspectors see your.......wheel fasteners )

After working with the Germans for years I now know what makes them cranky.

[Dollytrolley]

Jeff, reading your post brings to mind my "philosophy". NOTHING good ever happens in a weigh station. That is why I stay away. They are a necessary evil, but too much of a chance of meeting someone that has an important perspective. A perspective of their own.

 

Kind funny that you bring this up Jack.....

 

In Oregon the State DOT leaves the scales displays on most of the time so that the public can hopefully keep the private loads somewhat under control for the most part .......sorta......

 

Fast forward last fall I loan my Old F750 5 yard dump truck to Gilbert......a month goes by and Chuck calls and wants to borrow the F750 so I tell Chuck to call Gilbert........Gilbert says he is almost done with the dump truck so drop by and pick it yup in the afternoon.......

 

Gilbert forgets that he has 4 yards of wet 1/4 minus still in the dump just enough to show unless you climb up and look into the bed......

 

Chuck gets the bright idea to borrow Torrys goose neck tandem drop deck equipment trailer to haul the dump truck instead of putting along the back roads at 40 mph with the old 312 Y block bellowing........

 

So Chuck drives over to Gilbert's and backs up the trailer to the old F750 fires it up and granny gears it onto the trailer and chains it down.

 

Chuck pulls out on the county road and looks at the dually gages .....it seems that the Durmax is not a peppy a normal.....hummmm....

 

Just near the county road junction where it intersects the state highway is a State DOT scale........the scale is closed but Chuck pulls onto the scale and .........wow ......the old dump truck has gained......11.000 Pounds ........Gulp...... no wonder the Durmax is a tad weak and it takes a mile to stop.......

 

No problem......just pull over back behind the scale shack and dump the gravel next some state owned gravel piles ........

 

So.....Chuck backs up behind the shack and starts the F750 and starts to raise the dump box and all of a sudden out of the corner of his eye ......a State Trooper pulls up and gets out........hummmm

 

The trooper starts to walk over to Chuck but then a 1 ton flat bed Dodge pulls up next to the trooper and it is........the off duty weighmaster.......Gulp.....

 

They both walk over to Chuck and ask what he was doing......Chuck smiled and said well give me a week and maybe I could think up a story but I picked up the old dump truck but did not know it had a load of 1/4 pea gravel in the bed.......so after I weighed on the scale I felt I was too heavy to be safe so I hoped it was OK to dump the gravel next to the state gravel......both the trooper and the weighmaster climbed up on the running boards and looked at the pea gravel.......they both smiled......the pea gravel was nice and clean......the weighmaster said well maybe we could help you out , I not sure that the road crew has no use for pea gravel but we would like some of it.......

 

So Chuck smiled and said thats fine so the weighmaster pulled his flatbed dump behind the old F750 and chuck raised the bed up just enough to fill the Dodge to the top of the side boards.......the weighmaster had to make three trips to his house .....but Chuck did not have to go to jail.........

 

Drive on........(Don't stop at the scales.....)

[Scrap]

TMC is the same story as ITRA in explicitly saying no anti-seize on the studs for both hub pilot and ball seat cones. Only 2 drops SAE 30 on the end of the stud and 2 drops at rim depth. Not that either is law, but if Mr Crane is going to manufacture a CV for NA, and he's gotta have it against NA standards, then he owes it to his customers to send a TIB to CVSA to get the word out.

 

But for where you can use anit-seize or corrosion spray see the hub & drum info here:

 

http://www.conmet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/CC-Spring08.pdf

http://www.conmet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/CC-Spring10.pdf

[beyerjf]

Apparently the Canadians have a completely different take on lubrication on the lug nuts and threads. A lead article in one of their trucking magazines this month chronicles the increase in wheel off accidents, caused partly by "lack of lubrication" at time of assembly.

The industry standards people frequently make recommendations based on a perfect world. Combined with the legal atmosphere I can understand why in they say one thing and personally do another.

[Dollytrolley]

Apparently the Canadians have a completely different take on lubrication on the lug nuts and threads. A lead article in one of their trucking magazines this month chronicles the increase in wheel off accidents, caused partly by "lack of lubrication" at time of assembly.

The industry standards people frequently make recommendations based on a perfect world. Combined with the legal atmosphere I can understand why in they say one thing and personally do another.

 

Jeff,

 

I think I have heard "Grumps" splashing around in the Deschutes River where we pored him over the side of the boat polluting his favorite German Brown Fly Fishing hole with is ashes.............fortunately he retired from herding trucks around before the subject of what how his nuts were to be or not be treated ,,,,,,,

 

As I recall he did not lose any wheels in 60 years of pretty heavy duty equipment operations on some horrific roads so it seems that lubing the nuts AND then keeping them torqued is what really needs to be done.........

 

Grumps kept a eagle-eye on the trucks......he said a snake will bite you.....but a darn truck can kill you.......

 

Drive on...........(Bee careful.....)