Jump to content

Bumper Pull Hitches-Help Please!


SuiteSuccess

Recommended Posts

Several years ago we bought a Jayco Eagle 27BHS for our kids and grandkids to use. Have been pulling with my F450 with no issue. SIL and daughter bought a Ford Expedition EL 4x4 with heavy duty tow package which they want to use for the trailer. Specs of their Ford show towing capacity of 9200lbs. Hitch is Class IV but tag on hitch limits tongue weight to 920 lbs. Jayco empty weight is 6200 lbs and cargo at most is 300-400 lbs if that. Jayco literature and everything I could find on the internet says minimum tongue weight on a trailer should be 10% (~650lbs) while most recommend 15% (~975lbs) which exceeds hitch recommendations for tongue weight. Their suspension is rated for the weight and they have a 3.73 differential. Are they probably OK with weight distributing hitch?

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Ron. I know the spring bars distribute the weight to all the axles of the truck and trailer but is the actual tongue weight carried on the hitch now less by some %? For example in my case if 15% of the empty weight (975lbs) is carried on the hitch without the spring bars does the hitch now only carry say 7% of the weight (450lbs) and the other axles carry the remaining weight with the spring bars engaged? Just want to be sure I understand.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Physics says - the weight on the hitch is the weight on the hitch. How it's distributed forward of the hitch is a separate issue. Weight distribution hitches simply transfer some of the load that's on the hitch and would be on the rear axle, to the front axle.

 

Don

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I wouldn't worry about that load.

 

We own a 2001 Excursion V10 auto 3/4 ton 4.10 gears etc. It is entirely capable of towing although I find the extra weight over the rear (compared to a truck) to increase body sway or roll. I prefer to haul groceries with the EX and pull trailers with trucks but I'm lucky enough to have options.

 

Ex is cable but might not be very enjoyable, especially when the Ex is packed full of gear.

1993 Freightliner 3406C Cat, 400 HP, 9 speed, singled long, 3.91 ratio, 264" wheel base, 12' flat deck with dove tail

1997 F350 dually, 4wd conversion, intercooler, 3 inch intakes, WW2 compressor wheel, bellowed up-pipes,

2007 Ragen Toyhauler

 

4a8a58ec-58d7-48af-b0d7-9dd42cf5b43a_zps

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Equalizing hitches don't distribute weight - all they do is force the tow vehicle back to a level posture.

 

The "weight" transferred forward is just the front springs being compressed when the front of the vehicle is forced downward. The spring compression increases the downward pressure, and apparent weight, carried by the front tires.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dunno without knowing what their TV's cargo, GCVW, and so forth is. Just based on the numbers you posted... sounds doable, but it's maxed. The Jayco 3-400#'s cargo doesn't seem right to me, or I'm misunderstanding what you mean. That's max CC or are you saying that's all they'll add to the dry weight? I would be more confident getting actual weights before towing any distance, but flat, level, and slow should be fine if they aren't over in any of the other ratings. Short occasional trips.

 

Would "I" let a family member with their child, and possibly little towing experience, run that setup? Nope. For me it would be a "can you but should you" scenario.

 

I would loan them the 450 and drive their EX whenever they wanted to go camping. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Equalizing hitches don't distribute weight - all they do is force the tow vehicle back to a level posture.

 

The "weight" transferred forward is just the front springs being compressed when the front of the vehicle is forced downward. The spring compression increases the downward pressure, and apparent weight, carried by the front tires.

 

When I used to have a bumper pull trailer, I used an Excursion for towing. I weighed the rig with the weight off the hitch and weighed it with the WD hitch adjusted properly. Based upon my weigh slips, there was clearly a transfer of weight from one point to another so I'm not sure I understand your statement.

2012 F350 KR CC DRW w/ some stuff
2019 Arctic Fox 32-5M
Cindy and Tom, Kasey and Maggie (our Newfie and Berner)
Oh...I forgot the five kids.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Truly appreciate the input. Yarome, I have told them they can always use my truck so that is really not an issue and for me is the best solution. They would just like to be able to use their vehicle if the 450 wasn't available. My son in law has a lot of farm trailer towing experience but that doesn't necessarily translate into RV towing but couldn't hurt. I guess what I'm not really clear on is this. From a gross towing capacity, they are under by couple thousand pounds. From a weight standpoint the Expedition EL (which is the same length as a Suburban) is equal or slightly exceeds the trailer weight (7000 vs. 6500). The brake controller is the Ford factory identical to my F450. Braking is probably the issue. BUT the only thing near max is the tongue weight. Maybe this is just one of those times where we hook up and drive a straight section of road and some up and down hills and see how she handles and as Spin suggested, scale with and without.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Suite. Think about it this way. The way things are designed on a computer to "just" meet spec... Maybe that SUV hitch is capable of 9200 lbs of forward and backward pull but would rip out of the frame if twisted down at 930 lbs (tongue weight). A weight distributing hitch does not lessen the twisting force on the hitch frame itself, it simply tries to force the rear of the vehicle back upward twisting it the other way. The twisting forces on the hitch frame may be less or more or...

 

Now, I highly doubt if the actual problem is the hitch ripping of the frame. The tongue load is probably due to the rear suspension carrying capability of the SUV. A weight distributing hitch will help there, as it does shift the "apparent force" forward to load the front axle as well.

 

In reality, I wouldn't worry about this at all--most likely just fine. I'd be far more concerned about braking and sway.

No camper at present.

Way too many farm machines to maintain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to get a tongue weight each time you load the trailer, consider one of these trailer tongue scales. They are available in 1000, 2000 & 5000# models.

Interesting.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps I'm not grasping the whole picture, but I would think that if a "load leveling" fixture on the hitch would add weight to the front, it would need to remove a proportional weight from some other axle(s).

 

Thus, the load leveler might be just whatcha need.

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio@yahoo.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think what your asking is can the factory class IV hitch carry the tongue weight?

It should be fine as long as it hasn't been modified or welded on. They can buy a class V hitch that will give them more tongue weight capacity but they need to understand that because the new hitch could carry more, it would most likely overload the vehicle.

With all that said, I have abused and beaten factory hitches on pickup trucks and never had one fail. I have broken some hitch balls, and bent some pins, but never had a hitch itself or the frame it was attached to fail.

Jim's Adventures

Old Spacecraft.... Who knows whats next

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think what your asking is can the factory class IV hitch carry the tongue weight?

It should be fine as long as it hasn't been modified or welded on. They can buy a class V hitch that will give them more tongue weight capacity but they need to understand that because the new hitch could carry more, it would most likely overload the vehicle.

With all that said, I have abused and beaten factory hitches on pickup trucks and never had one fail. I have broken some hitch balls, and bent some pins, but never had a hitch itself or the frame it was attached to fail.

Must have never owned an early 2000's Chevy/GMC truck.

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication
2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet
2007 32.5' Fleetwood Quantum


Please e-mail us here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Braking is probably the issue.

 

Braking shouldn't be an issue as the controller only supplies current to the trailers braking system which should be appropriately sized for the weight of the trailer.

 

I'm sure you're fine, but it's still important to look at all your ratings as they may conflict. Ie.,.. I don't know the year of the EX, but a 2016 with the tow package 4x4 is listed as 15,200 gross combined vehicle weight rating. From that you subtract 6500 curb weight of the EX -200 for a second passenger -275 for a full fuel tank -100 for the hitch -200 of EX cargo (tools, gear, etc). That would equate to 15,200 - 7275 and leave you with 7925 left of available towing capacity.. even though the rig is actually rated at 9,200. If your Jayco's dry weight is 6200 and you have an average load-out of an addition 1000-1500lbs then you're 'just' under the adjusted max... not a 2000lb cushion.

 

Just arbitrary averages, but you can see how one rating may impact another.

 

For me, I would be looking at the EX's cargo capacity. SUV's are not generally known for having tremendous amounts. GVWR on the 2016 is at 7760. Using the above figures (again, just arbitrary example)... 7760 - 7275 only leaves an available hitch weight of 485lbs. If the example numbers are fairly close then your Jayco would put the EX a few hundred lbs over GVWR.

 

It all still looks doable for occasional short trips, but it's going to give the EX a good workout. B)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It all still looks doable for occasional short trips, but it's going to give the EX a good workout.

 

 

Yes, that's kind of what I come up with running the numbers, but wanted different perspectives. I appreciate the help.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps I'm not grasping the whole picture, but I would think that if a "load leveling" fixture on the hitch would add weight to the front, it would need to remove a proportional weight from some other axle(s).

 

Thus, the load leveler might be just whatcha need.

It does remove a proportional weight off the rear axle.

 

Imagine that the wheelbase is 120" and overhang from rear axle to hitch ball is 40". 600 pounds tongue weight on hitch ball puts 600 pounds new weight onto the tow rig. However, that 600 pounds is acting on a 4/3 lever to the rear axle, so it'll put 800 pounds onto the rear and subtract 200 pounds off the front. Net difference = 600 pounds, but gross difference is 800+200 pounds.

 

Practical example: my '01 Ford Excursion weighs about 7800 pounds with an empty tank and 8140 with a full tank. However, with a full tank (located behind the rear axle), the front axle gets 40 pounds lighter, and the rear axle gets 380 pounds heavier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does remove a proportional weight off the rear axle.

 

Imagine that the wheelbase is 120" and overhang from rear axle to hitch ball is 40". 600 pounds tongue weight on hitch ball puts 600 pounds new weight onto the tow rig. However, that 600 pounds is acting on a 4/3 lever to the rear axle, so it'll put 800 pounds onto the rear and subtract 200 pounds off the front. Net difference = 600 pounds, but gross difference is 800+200 pounds.

 

Practical example: my '01 Ford Excursion weighs about 7800 pounds with an empty tank and 8140 with a full tank. However, with a full tank (located behind the rear axle), the front axle gets 40 pounds lighter, and the rear axle gets 380 pounds heavier.

Thanks. That what I was thinking, but I thought an earlier post read that even though weight would be added to the front axle, none would be subtracted from the rear. Perhaps I mis-understood the statement.

 

I have a farm tractor that I sometimes add 1000# of weight to the front. This adds 1200# to the front axle, but removes 200# from the rear. Same concept. One can quickly overload tires this way.........

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio@yahoo.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I look back at what I have towed and with what and it scares me that I put my family in danger.

I've had the conversation with my son in law and it's a delicate thing trying to help him keep the family safe with out sounding like a now it all.

 

I would tell him I appreciate the fact that your trying to be independent. But I'd be a lot happier and less gray father inlaw if we could work your trips out for the F450 to be available.

Or hey your such a great great dad let them take the Volvo?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or hey your such a great great dad let them take the Volvo

 

 

Now you're really testing a father in laws love, lol.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would tell him I appreciate the fact that your trying to be independent. But I'd be a lot happier and less gray father inlaw if we could work your trips out for the F450 to be available.

 

Best answer so far, IMO. Or make him use the F450 for the first trip so when he tries it with his EX he'll get the full "this sucks" effect. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

RVers Online University

mywaggle.com

campgroundviews.com

RV Destinations

Find out more or sign up for Escapees RV'ers Bootcamp.

Advertise your product or service here.

RVTravel.com Logo



×
×
  • Create New...