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What do you do when you cross the boss


Cyberdave
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A new Wing King at Mountain Home AFB had the following to say in an interview recently.

The beloved A-10 Thunderbolt II has reached the end of its useful life and the money spent

maintaining the plane used for close air support could be better spent elsewhere, the new

commander for Mountain Home Air Force Base told the Idaho Statesman last week.

"The A-10 provides a valuable mission. However, there's other aircraft out there that can do

the same mission as the A-10," said Col. David Iverson, who took command of the 366th

Fighter Wing in February.You can read the article here;

Mountain Home AFB

 

Guess he should talk to his boss and let him know which aircraft or platform is available 'cause he don't know.

 

Gen. Michael Hostage III, Commander, Air Force Air Combat Command. Said in part,

"The Air Force does not have a suitable replacement for the planned divestiture of the A-10 Warthog aircraft and U-2 spy plane, senior service leaders said Sept. 16 at the Air Force Association Air and Space Conference, National Harbor, Md.

“I don’t want to cut the A-10 and the U-2 – we don’t have a replacement,” said Gen. Michael Hostage III, Commander, Air Force Air Combat Command."


Read more: Defense Org article

It's interesting how the zoomies never want to get down and dirty when they can be turnin' and burnin' way up high. We didn't take the lessons learned seriously in Korea and paid for it in Vietnam. The Air Force has never wanted the A-10 and now that it's proven, they still want to dump it before getting it's replacement on line and capable. Apaches have very little loiter time so, what's left? UAV's? Not with the existing latency and inability to react quickly. In the CAS role, the situation is always fluid and targets can change in seconds.

 

High threat environment seems to be a well used term. Do you think we'll risk F-35's or F-22's up close and personal?

 

 

 

 

If you've never had a look at the Avenger cannon, take a gander.

 

post-13114-0-43845000-1411171871_thumb.jpg

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Sunny beach! That'sa big buckin gun!!! Dave we had an A10 wing here at the reserve 917th here at Barksdale for decades. They left last year or the year before. I was in the 917th during my break in service for college. But I never saw the gun out of the airframe and had no idea it was that humongous. They put the Vietnam era Puff the magic dragon AC130's gun to shame!

 

I hear ya on the bad decisions.

 

Thanks for the great comparison pic.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The General understands that Congress pays the bills and has required that it be kept, with the support of the "Commander in Chief." If you hope to get another star then you'd best make public statements that agree with those folks, no matter what the actual need may be. :wacko:

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It does seem funny (a sad kind of funny) that great senior officers that stand up for doing the correct thing get their careers torpedoed while the PC bunch get more stars even though their advice is usually wrong and their grandiose plans don't work.

 

These days the feeling I get is that being an officer is a "zero defect" kind of thing, you can go far by doing nothing but one error or problem on your watch and your career is toast. It seems to be trickling down to the Warrants and senior NCOs too.

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The A-10 may be a fine & useful weapon, I don't know planes. But I live at the end of an airport with 2 (reserve) squadrons of the things. The pilots are a bunch of show offs unconcerned with the community. After having the stealth aircraft crash several years ago 300 ft from my house, I get nervous when they go straight up after takeoff directly over me. And that's just a part of the problems.

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A new Wing King at Mountain Home AFB had the following to say in an interview recently.

The beloved A-10 Thunderbolt II has reached the end of its useful life and the money spent

maintaining the plane used for close air support could be better spent elsewhere,

Take the close support mission and give it, and the A-10's and support, to the Marines and the Army and see how fast the AF changes their mind about it's remaining usefulness...

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Drones are a great answer to the need for close air support but like the A-10 they really need to belong to the folks that need that support, the Army and Marines.

 

The environment at the altitudes and areas that close air support are needed at are becoming steadily more lethal and the ability to get to where the support is needed would be greatly improved if the "pilot" didn't have to worry about getting killed. A drone can also be a much more survivable platform as it does not have to contain crew space or support making it far smaller for the same weapons load. Drones are still fairly expensive bits of kit so you can't just toss them into something the way you can a cruise missile but you have more options than a crewed aircraft.

 

The same kind of thing applies to other areas of combat and remote operations seem to be the wave of the future. The biggest worry and weakest link is communications between the operator and remote platform, probably the strongest argument for staying with at least some manned platforms.

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  • 1 month later...

Just to keep up with the back channel war on the A-10;

 

"Sen. Kelly Ayotte, R-New Hampshire, said Air Force leaders have been misleading Congress on the importance of the A-10 Warthog, and is calling for a closed-door meeting between Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel and enlisted airmen who call in aircraft for close air support.

The A-10 has been targeted for retirement by the Air Force, though veterans, lawmakers and watchdog groups say the aircraft is an unmatched weapons system for targeting enemy forces with low risk of harming nearby friendlies.

Ayotte said the active-duty enlisted airmen who serve with soldiers and Marines on the ground and who call in air support are hesitant to publicly contradict the Air Force’s plan out of concern doing so would be a career killer."

Full article: Senator says AF is Misleading Congress....

While many of you aren't overly concerned over this story consider this. Most of us have relatives, friends or neighbors that have their children in the fight. I would imagine that if you asked vets saved by the 'Hog' to line up you would get a pretty long line.

 

Drones / UAV will replace manned aircraft in the future but not now and we need CAS now. Bear in mind when trying to replace the A-10 (In the CAS role) with current available weapons the pickings are slim, very slim. UAV's? No way too slow too vulnerable and very small payload. Apache? Absolutely but it has a much smaller weapons load, lower loiter time, lower speed and it is much more vulnerable compared to the A-10.

 

While I'd hate to see it, I agree with the idea of turning all CAS over to the Army. The Marines have it right. Let the troops with their feet on the ground control their own CAS.

 

Us AF pukes can go buzzing around at the speed of sound with our hair on fire....

 

 

 

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Dave,

You'd get the same reaction if the AF said we needed tanks and ADA missiles of our own to support our base perimeter defense. There would be blood in the pentagon conference rooms! It was a real fight for Air Cav to be formed and to get Air attack choppers that were proven by the battle one of our members here participate in over in the Ia Drang Valley. They are their own ferry and resupply mission owners, as well as airevac and dustoff missions . I'd have to agree that their CAS mission might be better done in house. I used to think I was a Billy bad ass with a Humvee mounted Mk19 full auto belt fed 40mm grenade launcher. The A10 would chew me up, spit meout, and not leave enough chunks to need a toothpick.

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Plenty of missions for all the services but like any organization that gets filled with paper pushers and politicians you end up with turf battles that do not make sense to outsiders or to the folks in the field.

 

The AirForce does seem to suffer from the "fighter jock" syndrome, both in dealing with the other services and in how they treat their own people, that is not good but how to fix it is beyond me.

 

Now if you tell an Army tank driver something like "You get to sit in this nice air conditioned trailer and run your tank from this console instead of getting stuffed in the hot, noisy and rough riding beast." You won't get much argument. Mentioning that if he messes up while sitting in the tank he is likely a crispy critter versus, saying oopsie, give me another tank if he is running it remotely is going to win over even more folks.

 

Still until we get there we need to keep the systems that are WORKING TODAY available or we are going to get more folks killed.

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  • 4 months later...

Heck even an old AF vet like Chuck Norris knows we still need the A10. I posted this because even now the F35 has continuing major issues and this one could prove lethal. If you read the article, note that the glitch also applies to ground targets.

 

Software Glitch Causes F-35 to Incorrectly Detect Targets in Formation

 

What the Lone Wolf said;

 

Air Force leaders wanting to send the A-10 Thunderbolt to the bone yard already have any number of lawmakers criticizing them from Capitol Hill.

Now they’ve got “Lone Wolf McQuade” coming after them.

Action star Chuck Norris – an Air Force veteran – on Monday delivered an editorial roundhouse kick to the Air Force, arguing on the World Net Daily website that the “Warthog” – as it is known – still has plenty of fight left in it.

In the ongoing campaign against ISIS, Norris writes, “the A-10′s utility is warranted even more now than ever.”

“Its firepower capability, speed and accuracy, frequent war use, and the oft-painted teeth on its nose cone have made it one of the military’s most popular aircraft,” Norris wrote.

Norris said its “combination of large and varied ordnance load, long loiter time, accurate weapons delivery, austere field capability, and survivability has proven invaluable to the United States and its allies.”

Congress has been running interference against Pentagon plans to dump the plane, saving it through 2015 with $635 million drawn from the war funding budget. But the Air Force has made clear it wants to begin retiring the Thunderbolt fleet next year, linking the move to paying for the development of the Joint Strike Fighter.

In his column, Norris throws some jabs at Warthog critics, including Air Combat Command Commander Gen. Herbert “Hawk” Carlisle, who is quoted as saying: “There’s only so much you can get out of that airplane. Those airplanes are gonna wear out.”

“But that statement is true of every airplane in existence, and even the sun!” Norris wrote. “The question is: Is the fleet of A-10 ready for retirement? I just celebrated my 75th birthday, but I’m nowhere near ready to head to the scrapheap. Some things improve with age, and the A-10 has done just that, too.”

Norris, a martial arts world champion who began training while in the Air Force in the late 1950s, has achieved almost folk legend status — portrayed as someone who can never be defeated and capable of bending man and nature to his will and fists.

The martial arts superstar has gained further recent fame with an influx of comedic one-liners about his perceived super powers such as — “Chuck Norris died 20 years ago, Death just hasn’t built up the courage to tell him yet,” or “Chuck Norris and Superman once fought each other on a bet. The loser had to start wearing his underwear on the outside of his pants.”

To further bring attention to and save the A-10, Norris is producing and selling a T-shirt with the words “Save the A-10” on the front, and on the back, “Chuck Norris’ First Born Son was a Warthog. He cried tears of ‘BRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTT.”

All proceeds from the T-shirt sales will go toward his martial arts charity, Kickstart Kids.

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2015/03/23/chuck-norris-writes-to-save-the-a-10-warthog-from-retirement/#ixzz3VSUUgs44
Defense.org

Edited by Cyberdave
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Exactly.

 

I joke about the zoomies but it's the truth. The AF fought against the A-10 from the beginning. It doesn't fit their idea of what the fleet should look like. Haulers, Heavies and Fighters. Their abhorrence of doing air to mud is very well documented. They don't want to hear from the pilots that fly them, the maintainers that fix them or from the troops they've saved. They want to get the gee whiz factor and claim it's ready to go with only a few glitches... If you take the 'Hog out of the mix right now you only have the heavies and the F-15D / F-16. None of these can deliver the pinpoint damage the 'Hog can. We learned (and forgot) the lessons of Vietnam. The F-100 / F-4 or any other fast mover could not outperform the old A-1D Skyraider it was slow, low and deadly and many aircrews are alive because it could do the job better than any other A/C.

 

I can't speak for anyone else but I'd rather have a 'Hog covering my loved ones. We send our warriors into harms way and the Air Force doesn't want to provide CAS? Shame on my beloved AF!!!

Edited by Cyberdave
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The A-10 may be a fine & useful weapon, I don't know planes. But I live at the end of an airport with 2 (reserve) squadrons of the things. The pilots are a bunch of show offs unconcerned with the community. After having the stealth aircraft crash several years ago 300 ft from my house, I get nervous when they go straight up after takeoff directly over me. And that's just a part of the problems.

 

I was assigned to an A 10 detachment in West Germany in the 80s. The ground pounders loved them. I got to watch them operate on the range once and it was a very impressive sight.

 

As far as the combat takeoffs go, get over it. Would you have them wait until just before going into combat to practice?

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I was assigned to an A 10 detachment in West Germany in the 80s. The ground pounders loved them. I got to watch them operate on the range once and it was a very impressive sight.

 

As far as the combat takeoffs go, get over it. Would you have them wait until just before going into combat to practice?

 

Sembach?

601st?

 

I could see someone complaining about pattern work if they don't understand how or why all the 'show off' moves are done and why. What they don't understand is how critical they can be. With all of the small IR AA missiles out there it is a very real concern.

 

I seriously doubt you'll see an A-10 go vertical for very long...

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Sembach?

601st?

 

I could see someone complaining about pattern work if they don't understand how or why all the 'show off' moves are done and why. What they don't understand is how critical they can be. With all of the small IR AA missiles out there it is a very real concern.

 

I seriously doubt you'll see an A-10 go vertical for very long...

Leipheim Det 2/81 TFW

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