Are You Still In?

[Pat & Pete]

10 minutes ago, Rich&Sylvia said:

MJ did and does hold Tilray - Tilray is one of MJ's top three holdings.
I don't get excited about these things, unless they totally dump and all the money goes away.

None-the-less, I believe that the marijuana industry is a lot like Facebook in the early days - a lot of people don't believe that it's more than a passing thing - I think not.

 

Probably the same people that are surprised when their nose runs in cold weather .

[RV_]

Hey guys, when I say MJ except when referring to the MJ fund I mean Marijuana. Tilray already peaked so I went with Autora which I think has used stocks in lieu of cash brilliantly to buy up companies that do what they don't as well as buying more plant production capacity. Aurora has more available capacity that any other including Tilray as far as I have read. I've made more than $6k profit with 1000 shares of NVBEV and 2000 shares of Aurora, in four days. Of course that won't happen long but it was a good call for the timing. Again I have no beef with ETFs look here: https://www.bing.com/search?q=MJ+fund+price&pc=MOZI&form=MOZLBR

OK had I spent the same amount on Monday a week ago on the MJ ETF I linked to, I would have made only a couple pennies per share. At that price I would not have gotten many shares for the ~$17k I invested in the other two.

But you know, what counts in a completely new market like this, with no track record and folks only gearing up for the volumes just now, and in the last year since the legalization became sure for Canada, is where we are in a year. My friend bought and sold in one day when I told him about NBEV. He made $6k on one stock in one day.

Remember, I am the newby, and the least experienced in buying and selling individual stocks. I still barely understand and would never try a short position. The only put I ever made was with a golf ball the one time I tried golf - 1978 USAF Academy Silver course. Never played again. 😯  With Tesla sure, I followed them for 7 years before the IPO and had not invested more than some petty cash from my business I had for payroll and had $25k in that biz account when I left for retirement again despite the great money. MY savings and funds are never touched. I am in it for the fun. I am in the green so far.

 

Pete,

Yeah man!

Edited September 21, 2018 by RV_

[rynosback]

What do you think of NIO?  A Chinese electric car manufacture?

[RV_]

I don't know a thing about any Indian or Chinese EVs, only the Korean Hyundai and Kia BEVs and PHEVs. The Chinese aren't imported here, neither are the Indian EVs as of today that I know. I just checked and it is trading on the NYSE and here is today's quote: https://www.bing.com/search?q=NIO+stock+price&pc=MOZI&form=MOZLBR

I found this:

"Final Thoughts

There is no reason to invest in Nio at this stage. Don’t fall for the trap of thinking this a cheap way to invest in the electric vehicle segment compared to Tesla.

Nio is miles behind and has major battles to overcome.

If you really want in on this segment, consider investing in traditional car manufacturers. They are slowly embracing electric vehicles and this is a good thing. As they sell gas powered vehicles, the revenue helps to soften the blow of research and development of electric vehicles.

The result is a smoother ride along the journey.

This author has no positions in any stock mentioned and does not plan to open any positions in any stocks mentioned for at least 72 hours after publication of this article."

Source: https://www.modestmoney.com/nio-is-off-to-a-hot-start-here-is-why-you-should-avoid-it/42047/

 

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by RV_

[RV_]

I was surprised to see my little play in pot stocks drop then recover putting me in a 33% gain position after just a couple of weeks.

[rynosback]

2 hours ago, RV_ said:

I was surprised to see my little play in pot stocks drop then recover putting me in a 33% gain position after just a couple of weeks.

It is a roller coaster ride.  It has been since I have been in them for 6 months.  But like you, I am long.

[RV_]

I like the ride. Besides, we only live once. We are trying to spend a bit more now as we can afford to splurge. But while we have a beautiful home, and every toy we want, we need to do some travel to Australia, and Asia, the only areas save the Antarctic we haven't been. We loved living in places, not visiting for eight country in ten days European tours. Maybe we RV there for a bit.

I think the 17th will be interesting to say the least.

[rynosback]

Counting the days.

[RV_]

Ryno,

From Forbes:

What's Ahead For Aurora Cannabis After An Impressive FY 2018

Aurora Cannabis (TSE: ACB) reported a stellar fourth quarter (ended June 2018), with revenues increasing 19% over Q3 and a whopping 223% over the corresponding quarter of last year. What makes it even more impressive is that the quarter did not include the full results of its CanniMed acquisition (completed in May), and none of its MedReleaf transaction (completed in July). FY 2018 was a pivotal year for Aurora, as it transformed itself into a fully vertically and horizontally integrated company, helping them to control the entire production and trade process – from growing to selling, as well as diversifying their operations. The company has also placed itself in a great position to take advantage of the legalization of recreational marijuana in October by improving its inventory levels significantly. Moreover, rumors are also rife regarding a possible tie-up with The Coca-Cola Company to develop cannabis-infused beverages. All in all, the future seems to be bright for the company.

There is a lot, a whole lot more in the sarticle here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2018/09/26/whats-ahead-for-aurora-cannabis-after-an-impressive-fy-2018/#78399ca617e5

The article goes on in detail to cover:

Highlights From The Quarter

1. Improving Gross Margins:

2. Capacity Expansion:

3. Key Acquisitions:

4. Improving Metrics:

5. Impressive Investment Portfolio:

6. International Expansion:

7. U.S. Listing: Aurora plans to list its stock on a U.S. stock exchange, a strategy that has been highly beneficial for other cannabis companies such as Canopy Growth, Tilray, and Cronos Group, given the access to a greater level of investment.

This guy really did the in depth research I wanted and might have missed.

 

[Smitty77_7]

Derek - I like to see you having fun as you're doing your doing this:)! 

My wife and I have a goal, to do our very best to leave as little inheritance as possible:)!

(Though I admit, we continue to help our only child/adult along in life. So she is sort of getting an advance inheritance now. When it will make the most difference for her getting established and set up for her future retirement.... So we're really not zeroing out her potential inheritance, as we're assisting her on major things today. And she is responsible, and the DW and I both agree - that if she was not, and was a deadbeat, we'd not be rewarding her in such away:)!).

And for the record, and the theme of this thread. Yep, we're still in. I do have a few buckets stashed to the side, for either total market pull back, or sector's I like pull backs - opportunities... 

Best to all,

Smitt

[RV_]

Smitty,

I learned a lot from you and your support was and is very much appreciated. I think I am best at technical digestion and seeing what I envision as the natural path they must/will follow. And that is useful only in high risk emerging technologies like EV cars and grid Battery backup systems. And now the emerging MJ market.

Yeah Smitty, I am having a blast watching this emerge and develop. It is eerily similar to my feelings about Tesla when I bought on IPO. The pot stocks scare the hell out of some people who either are misinformed about the Canadian nationwide legalization of recreational pot which includes medical marijuana (MJ.) As we have seen in US states that legalized medical, they are over-controlling it because big pharma wants time to develop a monopoly on it but they lost their fairy tale of MJ addiction. And they should talk with their addicting of America for pieces of silver to opiates! So they are lobbying (read paying) for politicians big time to keep MJ illegal. Regardless of how that is not good for the citizens. They don't care.

 

Just like the initial laws backed by NADA to pass state laws against direct sales without franchised dealers which they initially and quickly dropped as being to protect the consumers. LOL! The polarizers for politics will scare the average investor and make the product they want a monopoly on, in this analogy, oil polluting fuels and the franchise dealerships which can only exist with high maintenance ICE (Internal Combustion Engines) vehicles. There is virtually no dealer only maintenance on BEVs. (Battery Electric Vehicles - as opposed to PPHEVs or plug in hybrid vehicles which have a gas or diesel engine)

Why no maintenance? Just look at the engines. BEV engine, one moving part the rotor, which is not under high heat stress and mechanical stress from exploding fuel.

ICE engines do have high heat and mechanical stress from exploding fuel to drive the wheels with all kinds of pistons and piston rods, cams, valves, tappets, push rods, exhaust manifolds, engine water pumps, crankshaft, timing chains and/or belts, fans or fan belts, oil pumps, oil filters, all kinds of breathers and valves to try to reburn unsuccessfully the exhaust toxins, vacuum lines everywhere, injectors, fuel injection pumps, fuel lift pumps, turbos, engine coolant, radiators, catalytic converters, mufflers, oil seals, head gaskets, main seals, spar plugs, plug wires, distributors, electronic ignitions, Engine fans, EGR valves, O2 sensors, water hoses, air filters, fuel filters, starter motors, wet batteries filled with acid, and many more.

BEVs have a battery pack with no acids, and no maintenance, an electric engine, with one moving part, none of the above that ICE engines have.

They both have wheels, tires, wipers, brakes, wheel bearings (sealed these days that could last the life of the vehicle,) and those can be done by a non dealer mechanic or WalMart/Sam's mechanics. And tire dealers of every stripe.

And after the initial cost they cost less in life of vehicle costs. And you get to charge overnight at home and quick superchargers on the road, not at a remote gas station with nasty oily grounds and the time it takes. How many folks would have cell phones if they had to go to town to charge them daily or every other day?

So the uninformed or mono-news-views folks were told it was a fraud and won't work and it did? Despite that being untrue they finally had enough money behind them (can you say Koch? Koch attacks)  to cause an SEC suit. But they never did that to Exxon or the other big guys that did worse.  OK, Tesla will get by that and Musk remains as CEO, just not chairman, as well as being the majority stockholder. Musk and Tesla will still join Amazon and Apple with $1000 share prices soon as the market turns on the realities not Koch millions to fight .

The Pot biz faces much of the same issues of big money from both drug criminals with money to pay politicians, and legitimate but heinous big Pharma. It also behooves politicians to generate outrage.

The US is already behind the power curve and has ceded the entire legal market to Canada and Canadian companies that will all be trading on the US stock markets as about 1/3 already do.

In this market the docs getting millions from prescriptions and big Pharma who is trying to find ways to monopolize them and monetize them as monopoly holders, will fail. They will try to use scare tactics and develop types of drugs from pot that individuals can't make and keep all but their "medicinal marijuana products" (read the same as the real thing)

See, people worldwide will see the lack of crime increases and instead a drop of crimes committed to fund illegal drugs. Why isn't marijuana non-addictive? Why yes, it is. But the criminal dealer who sells it likely will also sell some or all of the hard drugs like Coke, Meth, Heroin for the respectable citizens who got hooked on prescription drugs and are now illegal junkies since they were cut off from the legal prescriptions.

Keeping MJ illegal keeps all of those in play. The worst part is the is that the willfully ignorant will try to keep the naive and fearful in check with fear and violence wars of words. But that only in the US at this point because the rest of the world was watching Uruguay which was the only country where pot for every use was le3gal and now Canada is second. 

Once the other countries see reductions in drug crimes and the unbelievable tax revenues, as well as the reductions in tax expenditures to keep drug users in jail for having MJ in their possession.

Right now a teen will have no problem, despite drugs being illegal in finding a source, and buying MJ or harder drugs within about 30 minutes anywhere. So being illegal does not make them less available. Making them legal does. That same teem will have to get and adult to buy alcohol for them or at least a fake ID. Illegal drugs are currently, as always, easier to obtain than the legal drugs which we can control.

I am all for making all drugs legal, and available OTC! Yes even heroin. Alcohol is legal and I don't drink. I smoked a lot of MJ in the 60s but quit for the USAF. I did drink a lot of beer in the AF on "occasions," (Dining ins and Dining outs, awards formations and unit beer busts) but never became a drunk like some folks are. Drugs the same. I prefer to be a free man and not be putzed up by alcohol on a daily basis. But as I get older it will become increasingly more painful as my spinal issues get  a bit worse with age. And I will not do pain killer opioids. Or any other addictive substance just for pain. MJ as a pain reliever I will believe once we are moved to Colorado and I can experiment. I will post back if it does. But like many, I remain to be convinced because early on we saw medicinal as an excuse for legal pot. Now the medicinal is not needed in seven states, all of Canada, and all of Uruguay. It is tolerated in most countries. All I see happening if all drugs were available over the counter is less needle transmissible diseases, no more crime to get drug money because they re available at the drug store for over 21 at stable low prices and dosages that will not cause unexpected ODs. As well, the new class of heroin addict who got hooked on opioids by their docs and big Pharma, and now have been cut off as a solution are desperate. legalizing all drugs would allow cheaper and as pure but big Pharma will have to focus on cures instead of pain killers and other low hanging drug  user fruit. I don't smoke any more either but my wife does - outside since we got a new home built custom for us. It is legal and I don't use it either. Why aren't I wide eyed and craving and sneaking away? I have self respect. I do or don't, my choice, never the victim of another once I learn enough to know better.

So why would folks say legal drugs will make us all drugged out addicts? Well, people judge others by how their own minds work so I say let Darwin take care of them, not my taxpayer monies for the jails, law enforcement that is a joke, and the crimes committed to get drug money by the users. 

Anyway, as we proved (read Freakonomics) making things illegal can create crime and problems. Example when I first came to the south, reluctantly due to the USAF assignment here in 1971, everything except Bossier City was "dry" for 100 miles around. It had the "strip" adjacent to Barksdale AFB catering to partiers of all ages. It had little crime compared to big cities. However my future in laws lived on the state line between Oak Grove Louisiana , and Eudora Arkansas. It was all dry there too except Eudora, a 30 minute drive each way, and all the holier than thou types drove one way sober and one way back drunk. Now legal, the death rate due to DUI is down to normal levels. What were those idjits thinking when they would rather their husbands and kids die on the road than have legal alcohol? Did they learn nothing from prohibition?

So for those prone to preach their idea of MJ use as unacceptable, please there are surely some dry areas you can move to and test the ability of your family to drive under the influence back from wherever they drove to get whatever legally. When I visited I went over to Eudora to get a case of beer for the week and some of the ladies visiting at granny's glared at me like I would feel guilty and turn to stone from their stares. I laughed and offered them a beer, and if they had anything to say I would listen and drink that beer the whole time. I would not censor their beliefs any more than I'd let them censor mine. People are strange. So they are free to NOT invest in MJ bud, or the beer of the same name, and they can talk all they like but since my drinking smoking or doing any drug myself has no ill effect on them providing it is legal, and I choose not to do it and drive, it's NUNYA! They can do what they like or not, free country thus far.

Was going to move to Canada but then Colorado made a nice place for us with even more advantages like staying in the country we loved and served all of our lives. First as military brats with career or near dads, and in our case a 27 year career in the military of our own. I liked Canada because of their and the US' dual citizenship rules. Yes you can live there and be a US citizen too. Great for snowbirds. However with them requiring old retirees to invest $2 million into a Canadian company immediately for their citizenship, I really wish I had that much free. I will in a few years with the MJ opportunities and BEVs as well as solar and other renewable power. Some of which will be on or around my house. Then we might have a Canadian cabin and a Colorado stix n brix and an RV to traverse the land between.

Dylan's words are as relevant today as in the 60s. Perhaps more so vis a vis technology and education. Same with the song "Monster" by the band Steppenwolf. And the book by Hermann Hesse, Steppenwolf, which is a poetical self-portrait of a man who felt himself to be half-human and half-wolf. This Faust-like and magical story is evidence of Hesse's searching philosophy and extraordinary sense of humanity as he tells of the humanization of a middle-aged misanthrope.

The Times They Are A-Changin'

Bob Dylan

Come gather 'round people wherever you roam,
And admit that the waters around you have grown,
And accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'

Come writers and critics who prophecize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide,
The chance won't come again,
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'

Come senators, congressmen,
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway,
Don't block the hall,
For he that' gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled,
There's a battle
Outside and it's ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land,
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command,
Your old road is rapidly agin',
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'

The line it is drawn,
The curse it is cast,
The slow one now will
Later be fast,
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by RV_

[rjxj]

I hope I'm not violating any rules with this post.

Edited October 12, 2018 by rjxj

[rynosback]

2 hours ago, rjxj said:

I hope I'm not violating any rules with this post.

This is government for you.  

[rynosback]

I am changing companies with my 403s.  The picture below is my “managed” account.  I told them years ago that I wanted to invest aggressively.  So the really FUNNY, f@#ked up really thing is that investing in a fixed income dropped 31%.  I would think that a fixed income would be more bonds or low yielding funds.  What a joke of this management.  I, a novice invester make better investments choices.  I should have pulled these funds decades ago.  

 

https://www.m109riders.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=380320&d=1539380403

Edited October 12, 2018 by rynosback

[RV_]

I'm an amateur and have found the investment analysts scoffed at my decision to invest in Tesla and now my choices in MJ stocks. But these investments in brand new product types don't come around often that excite me. But next investments will be fire fighting innovations and water pumps as the ice caps melt. Irony. I'm moving to colder and higher altitude climes now, for ten years from now if we're still around. And plenty of wilderness to retreat to.

Ya never know. I keep only two weeks of the top brand of freeze dried survival full meals for the two of us. If we need more, odds are we won't for long. So my outlook is to make the best of the various scenarios I see as possible. Without becoming a fanatic.

If the proverbial excrement hits the rotating surfaces Colorado has legal marijuana and assisted suicide. I guess that covers my realistic preparations. I hope we make the changes needed to press on. I'm not encouraged by the willful ignorance I see. So I don't join things and am not a survivalist. Though a weapon expert I'm not buying lots of ammo or more guns. Just my normal 500rds or so of .40 cal pistol, 300 shot-shells for hunting and defense. 300 rounds .308, several thousand rds of .22 lr, and 300rds .22 Win Magnum. I'm still optimistic, just cautiously so.

Edited October 14, 2018 by RV_

[RV_]

These just in in the last few days:

Tesla Model 3 = #1 Best Selling Car In The US (In Revenue)

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/09/09/tesla-model-3-becomes-1-best-selling-car-in-the-us/

 

Tesla Crushes Porsche & Jaguar Worldwide

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/12/tesla-crushes-porsche-jaguar-worldwide/

I would have stayed long with Tesla as it will soon be shooting up. But I needed to buy a house, and be able to sit on this property for the right buyer after buying the new one. Then I'll either get back into Tesla with all, or evenly divided between Tesla and my then favorite MJ stocks to grow again.

I have to keep my large capital gains tax untouched from this year. I hate taxes!

Edited October 13, 2018 by RV_

[RV_]

With all the market uncertainty the question is relevant again. Are you still in? I liquidated for a house not fear and at almost the highs for 2018. I am in the new Marijuana industry for a smaller piece of the market than before. I think the market will be so volatile in 2019 it will make Tesla stock look stable by comparison.

How do you feel about the coming year?

[NDBirdman]

I'm still in.  Had a feeling mid summer 2018 I needed to dump, I did not, now I'm around 35% loss.  I will get out the minute it gets me back even, don't even need a profit, I'm grabbing my $$ and running.  An extremely low paying savings account would still have my initial investment sitting there.  All I want for 2019 is to get my $$ back but if needed, I can let it sit a few years, it is after all a long term investment, not $$ needed to survive/live.  Investing to me is nothing more than a gamble and I never gamble $$ I'm not willing or able to lose.  That's why my investments are all very high risk, but would be nice to get it back... LOL  Life goes on.  I'm rich and always will be.  What makes a person rich you ask?  Well, for me it is love, family and life (and a good beer!).  The rest is just goodies you can live with, or without, I'm happy either way.

Edited December 31, 2018 by NDBirdman

[Randyretired]

I guess I am old fashioned as I have most of our investments in index funds and just hold them.  I have been in these index funds for years, long before the last recession.   Before that I tried a lot of different stocks and even options but nothing consistently performed like these index funds.  This is a big part of our retirement finances and the market volatility concerns me but it has always come back and I think it will be back sometime and growing again.  Until then  we will not make significant withdrawals if we can avoid it.  Our investments are mostly in taxable accounts and at this point changes would have serious tax consequences. 

[chirakawa]

40 minutes ago, Randyretired said:

I guess I am old fashioned as I have most of our investments in index funds and just hold them.  I have been in these index funds for years, long before the last recession.   Before that I tried a lot of different stocks and even options but nothing consistently performed like these index funds.  This is a big part of our retirement finances and the market volatility concerns me but it has always come back and I think it will be back sometime and growing again.  Until then  we will not make significant withdrawals if we can avoid it.  Our investments are mostly in taxable accounts and at this point changes would have serious tax consequences. 

Index funds are a great way to go.  Look at the history of the market, lot's more up years than down years.

In 2008 I retired and had some drag up money coming which I added to an index account.  Thirty days later, all my drag up pay was lost in the market.  However, I left the account intact and today it is worth four times what it was back then.  If you ain't in it for the long run, you have no business being in it at all.

[Randyretired]

3 hours ago, chirakawa said:

Index funds are a great way to go.  Look at the history of the market, lot's more up years than down years.

In 2008 I retired and had some drag up money coming which I added to an index account.  Thirty days later, all my drag up pay was lost in the market.  However, I left the account intact and today it is worth four times what it was back then.  If you ain't in it for the long run, you have no business being in it at all.

So far index funds have been good to us.  Our primary fund is a S&P 500 fund and it has grown more than 7% a year.  Add in dividends of around 2% and it has doubled in value every 7 to 8 years or so.  The volatility of course makes it feel like a lot more at times and a lot less at other times.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Randyretired

[RV_]

Thanks for bringing up index funds Randy! And thanks for adding your own reviews of index funds from experience. We can't afford any more capital gains for 2018 but starting tomorrow we are going to look at moving some or all of our funds into index funds.

Now here is where we will sound like we are claiming to be able to time the market. You see now is when I will be looking for a very high balance of our funds at which time we will cash them out and then when the market is way down buy some or all index funds. NO big strategizing, just an attention to whichever indexes I decide to track.

Folks who swear by financial managers who then in turn buy mutual funds are paying lots of extra costs for less in returns even if only the management fees of the mutual fund and then on top the Financial manager profits.

Because this is a financial forum, I looked up a good definition of index funds for others who, like me, are less familiar with them:

https://www.moneycrashers.com/index-funds-vs-mutual-funds/

Do you guys agree with that article?

Thanks again for your input. My past main investments have been on vehicles, real property, and businesses I did part time on weekends and evenings when I was active duty and a very lucrative four almost five years building steel buildings as a managing partner 2004-2009. Believe it or not folks with discretionary funds here used their cash to buy buildings as a better bet post 2008 with terrible interest rates of ~ .5 percent for savings accounts and maybe .75-1% for some money market and savings. The increase in property values have proven out since.

Edited January 1, 2019 by RV_

[NDBirdman]

Looks like an old long thread so I'm not going to read all 30 pages, forgive me if asked/discussed before.  Those here that are good with investments, how do you feel about precious metals/coins?  I'm curious as I have over the years picked up a lot of silver/gold coins and a lot of bullion.  Does anyone use these? (As well as some art)  I try to use silver bullion as an investment stabilizer of sorts.  While it does not go down much when the market is increasing in value, it goes up, albeit not a lot, but goes up a small bit when the market kicks me in the groin like is has the past few months.  I find it strange (weird?) that bullion always does the opposite of the market, ie down when stocks are up and up when stocks are down.  Right now, even with silver prices up a little, I believe it is a pretty good value with lots of potential, but like stocks/casino, it's a gamble.

Of those of you that are full time, do you invest in these and do you take with you or leave in bank?  Just curious, don't have to say if worried about safety.    I store mine in a bank safe deposit box so it is safe from theft, unless the bank would fail.

Oh, and just a note, I think those TV hawkers on gold/silver laughable, I rank them along the lines of ambulance chasers.  I hope no one swallows their baloney and jumps on wagon, all they are doing is playing on your fears to make themselves a lot of $$.  I've been doing this long before these ........ started this up.

[TheDuke]

I have never bought real gold or silver. In reading the Minnesota papers in 2018 and prior years it seams that two issues come up. The over the counter ones hire ex cons to sell and they will keep the bullion/coins for you. Two huge problems. Also with coins, who determines the value? Two much room for shiesters.

[NDBirdman]

2 hours ago, TheDuke said:

I have never bought real gold or silver. In reading the Minnesota papers in 2018 and prior years it seams that two issues come up. The over the counter ones hire ex cons to sell and they will keep the bullion/coins for you. Two huge problems. Also with coins, who determines the value? Two much room for shiesters.

Correct, there is a lot of fraud out there, alot of Chinese counterfeits floating around.  I have researched and learned how to spot a fake and yet there are some that fool me, little lone an expert.  This is why on my bullion I only buy from the smelters I am familiar with.  I only buy coins from reputable dealers, one in particular that has been in business over 40 years.  There are also Coin grading services that can spot a fake from a mile away.  Yes, it's a gamble, but it's mostly a hobby that sometimes pays.  I use a jewelry grade scale and a micro-scope to check all purchases out plus a couple other tests.  As far as a con holding my silver for me, don't walk, RUN away very fast.  I buy nothing that is not in my hand.  Coin value, some set by the goberment but mostly by collectors and the rarity of the coin.  It is a big business, auctions, books, etc.  I use The Red Book as my main guide but not as an absolute, experience comes to play.  Been doing this over 40 years off and on.  Study the hobby, it's fun and if you want, can be fairly inexpensive, ya don't have to go after the high cost ones.

Anywayz, back to my original question, anyone besides me dabble in pms?