Thermopane window cleaning

[Wrknrvr]

  I am curious as to what cleaner for cleaning the sealer that holds the glass todether. I think it is a polyurethane product. But looking for the best cleaner that will not affect the sealer. 

 I do need to look for where it leaked in to cause the fogging. I have an old window that I am expiermenting with.

 

  Safe Travels,.    Vern

[Kirk W]

Are you going to try and clean the inside, or just reseal the leaking place?

[Wrknrvr]

 I want to learn how to take a double pane window apart , clean it and resealed it.

 

   Vern

[SWharton]

Why would between the panes need cleaning? Has your seal broken? There are companies that will reseal the window.

[Kirk W]

8 hours ago, SWharton said:

Why would between the panes need cleaning?

Wrknrvr is an RV repair tech & fulltimer. I believe that he is wanting to be able to offer the service.

Vern, I have googled the subject of repairing thermal pane windows and only found information related to doing this for house type windows but I'm sure that the process would be the same. Most of those services just drill a hole in the top and bottom and then use some type of liquid cleaner to flush through the space and then install some type of plugs back into the holes, leaving the air inside. I know that there are companies that do repair thermoal pane windows for RVs but I'm pretty sure that they take them apart to do that. In doing another search for RV thermal window repairs, I found a link to Dave Root Glass Repair, who sells a kit that is supposed to repair those windows. There are also some Youtube videos on the subject and it looks like Foggy Window Repair parts 1 & 2 may be worth watching.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Kirk W
repair a typo

[TXiceman]

We have the frameless dual pane windows and so far, the only place I have found that will reseal them is Sun Coast Design near Tampa.  Several places will do the regular framed dual panes.  It is not cheap, but less than new windows.

You can stay on their property with power and water and a dump station.  They pull your windows and cover the holes while doing the reseal.  Then they reinstall them.  They have a lifetime warrant on the repaired windows.

Ken

[FL-JOE]

I seriously doubt it would be possible to tear down sealed double pane windows and re-do them yourself.  Not sure about RV sealed units but regular residential ones generally have different gases infused into them.

[Kirk W]

5 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

Not sure about RV sealed units but regular residential ones generally have different gases infused into them.

RV windoes are also gas charged, usually with argon and sometimes with krypton. 

[Wrknrvr]

 This explains this subject

Yep this will help.

 

 Thanks,.  Vern

[Ray,IN]

actually RV dual-pane windows simply have air between the panes. Motion Windows does not address what is between panes. One would think if they use an inert gas they would advertise/mention the fact. SunCoast designers say in this video they fill between the panes with dry air.

In reality dry air performs the same as Argon, NItrogen, or any other dry gas.

Wrknrvr, those are house windows, not the same as RV windows. The  man in the video does not say how he removes the air between the panes. This is kinda like "filling" a tire(window) with Nitrogren, how do they remove air from the tire(window) first??

Edited September 8, 2019 by Ray,IN

[FL-JOE]

On 9/7/2019 at 9:50 PM, Ray,IN said:

actually RV dual-pane windows simply have air between the panes. Motion Windows does not address what is between panes. One would think if they use an inert gas they would advertise/mention the fact. SunCoast designers say in this video they fill between the panes with dry air.

In reality dry air performs the same as Argon, NItrogen, or any other dry gas.

Wrknrvr, those are house windows, not the same as RV windows. The  man in the video does not say how he removes the air between the panes. This is kinda like "filling" a tire(window) with Nitrogren, how do they remove air from the tire(window) first??

That is not entirely correct.  If you ever compare a regular double pane sealed residential window to one filled with Argon and another gas (can't recall the name) you will immediately see the difference.  They have developed these gas combinations to greatly reduce UV penetration and increase the actual R value of the windows.  

[Wrknrvr]

  For a update on my thoughts of this project.

 

  I will work on at least one window this winter while in Arizona. I have searched this subject over a few years and never seen a simple way to fill the window with a gas. Now that I have seen a simple way to accomplish it, I will try it.

 

 We have been staying in Arizona for 4 winters and I really think this is the last winter there. So I am getting some other projects in order to keep busy while there. The Rv repair business has dropped of by at least 40 percent in Montana.

 It is close to time for me to retire so a day or three off a week has got me thinking more days off would be fine with me.

  I am planning to install solar on our fifthwheel this winter. Window thing may involve more if it works.

  Now I am going to be picking up on a old hobby from the 1970's. Back in those days I was building black powder rifles. So I hope to get some forging of parts done before we leave in October. 

  Heck I mite be doing some backpacking this winter in the mountains of Arizona. Even carry a fly rod with me and do some fishing.

 

Safe Travels,.   Vern

[Kirk W]

Let us know how your window project works out. You have chosen what could turn into some significant business.

[Ray,IN]

12 hours ago, Wrknrvr said:

I will work on at least one window this winter while in Arizona. I have searched this subject over a few years and never seen a simple way to fill the window with a gas. Now that I have seen a simple way to accomplish it, I will try it.

Please explain how you plan to remove the air from between the panes and then fill with gas? would it involve a vacuum pump capable of then adding whatever gas you chose without breaking the vacuum?

Edited September 11, 2019 by Ray,IN

[Randyretired]

In the past I have received double pane house windows with a vent tube.  The instructions said to crimp it upon installing.   These windows worked fine even though they had just air.  The better gas filled windows probably insulate better but at the cost of new windows, I would be good with just clear glass.  Dry air is what is important.

[Wrknrvr]

 Watching this video you can hear him explain about heavier argon fills the bottom first. I tried to do a video but so far it has not loaded.

 So this photo explains about how heavier material will stay at the bottom.

 So in this photo there is a heavy product that is at the bottom. And a lighter product that sits at the top. Now if you shake it up they will mix physically, but separates with in 15 minutes.

 So if argon is supplied to the bottom of the window slowly it will fill the space from the bottom to the top .

 

 Vern

[Ray,IN]

Thanks for the education vern. It's been almost 55 years since college science classes.  https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gas-density-d_158.html

I also see Argon is a better insulator than air, with Xenon being the best: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gas-density-d_158.html

I think this is a new player in the RV fogged window repair business: Precision  Glass

 

After that,IMO these are DIY dual pane window repair kits I've been considering: https://foggywindowrepairkits.com/foggy-window-seal-repair-kit/ or https://www.daverootrvglassrepair.com/window-repair-kits.html

[docj]

Today I had 4 of my thermopane sliding windows re-worked by RVFogDoctor of Searcy AR.  It may well have been the most positive interaction I've had with any shop in our 9 years of full-timing.

We arrived on Sunday and I had been told that there were hookups for us to use.  Never did I expect that the hookups would be 50A with sewer and water. 

Monday morning the shop opened at 8am and by 8:30 we had "checked in" and went to breakfast (after backing the MH into the shop.)  By 9:30 when we returned all 4 window frames had been removed.  By 10:30 the first of the frames was ready to be re-installed.  Even with a lunch break, we were ready to leave by 1:30pm  THE SAME DAY!  Two technicians did the removal and re-install. Others, who I never saw cleaned the glass and installed new seals. Another technician worked on my windshield which had somewhat separated from the chassis and was leaking both water and air.

The cost of all of this was $200 per window frame, each of which contained two glass sections.  I was billed <$200 for the windshield repair.  The total for the day was <$1000 which I thought was a bargain.

We're now planning to have the "parent company" of RV Fog Doctor do a partial repaint of our MH later this winter.  They had good reviews including someone we met who was there having painting done after having had windows done a year ago.  The bid I received for painting was significantly less that the others bids I've received and that was after spending nearly half an hour with the shop foreman discussing our options.  I have the bid in writing and I my sense of the people is that they will stand behind it.
 

Edited September 17, 2019 by docj

[Ray,IN]

IGU windows may be filled with air:https://www.thespruce.com/fogged-windows-repair-options-1822911

Wonder if the process to introduce Argon through the drilled hole in the glass wrkndr posted would work with this process?

Edited September 17, 2019 by Ray,IN

[Wrknrvr]

  This is a winter project for Window repair. It is just for myself and to pass along some info as I try to accomplish said subject.

   I do have a bottle of argon for welding and a regulator that will do the job.

 

 Will keep posted,.  Vern

[SWharton]

15 hours ago, docj said:

 

We're now planning to have the "parent company" of RV Fog Doctor do a partial repaint of our MH later this winter.  They had good reviews including someone we met who was there having painting done after having had windows done a year ago.  The bid I received for painting was significantly less that the others bids I've received and that was after spending nearly half an hour with the shop foreman discussing our options.  I have the bid in writing and I my sense of the people is that they will stand behind it.
 

Please keep us informed about the paint job. We are very interested in that.

[docj]

3 hours ago, SWharton said:

Please keep us informed about the paint job. We are very interested in that.

We're scheduled to have the painting done in late February.  I'll post after it has been done.

[SWharton]

1 hour ago, docj said:

We're scheduled to have the painting done in late February.  I'll post after it has been done.

Thanks............

[Wrknrvr]

  This winter project was delayed to this summer. Just to many other things got it the way. But I am aleast going to try one window. If it works then I will do more.

I will keep you informed,    Vern

[Wrknrvr]

I am curious if anyone else has tried it.

 

 

  Vern