Attwood water heater

[Redoldcar]

My water heater will light but wont stay lit. I've changed the wire that is a cut off with a new one but still does it. Is it the control board? 

[Darryl&Rita]

Probably not. Check the spark gap. Check all the ground connections, including the screw holding the burner in the tube. 

[JimK]

I have no idea what you mean by changing "the wire that is a cut off...".  

First step is to disconnect and clean the electrical harness style connectors.  Mine seem to loosen up and I use an office binder clamp to keep the connection tight.  Next step would be to clean the flame sensor and set the gap.  If that doesn't work replace the sensor.  

Edited June 3, 2019 by JimK

[oldjohnt]

If you have the Model number its easy to Google a Manual which will have a Troubleshooting Procedure. What is the Model ??

I've had them light (which tells me HV spark Ignitor circuitry is working and gas valve initially opens) but then go out because the flame sensor fails to register a flame (Could be EITHER a board problem orrrrrrrr sensor problem, check first for good connections and grounds) so the gas valve shuts off for safety. That's a part of the control board system but you also need good connections and good grounds for all to work properly, check all that FIRST before proceeding.

On the Atwood models with the control circuit board you can get access to I've had some luck (if yours is that type??) removing the ribbon cable connector on the board and using a pencil eraser to polish up the flat brass looking contacts then re attach.

A volt meter to insure good full battery voltage is getting to the control board can help diagnose problems as low voltage can cause problems.

I have no idea what "wire" you're talking about. Is this an electronic fired unit (what Im talking about above) or the older pilot and thermocouple type where you have to push and hold the valve a few seconds before the thermocouple holds in ?? If so post back that's a different animal where a bad thermocouple may be the cause

Not knowing what you have the things that come to mind are: The control board,,,,,,,,bad ground or connection,,,,,,,flame sensor,,,,,,,,,low voltage,,,,,,,,thermocouple issue (older units). Those boards aren't cheap so try easy things first. Ive never had a Dinosaur replacement board go bad if that's the type and that's the problem, but hold off and troubleshoot (get a manual) before you run out and spend money

John T

 

Edited June 3, 2019 by oldjohnt

[markandkim]

You need a new card.

Don't waste anymore time. Get one.

[Redoldcar]

Thank you for all the replies

 

[JimK]

6 hours ago, markandkim said:

You need a new card.

Don't waste anymore time. Get one.

People do this frequently and usually for no purpose.  My manual even has a clear warning about doing other troubleshooting before replacing the circuit board.  Replacement of the board is rarely needed.  Most of the time the remedy was actually just a matter of unplugging and replugging the ribbon connector due to board replacement.  Do that first before replacing the board.  Also replace the inexpensive sensor before replacing the board.

Edited June 4, 2019 by JimK

[oldjohnt]

6 hours ago, JimK said:

My manual even has a clear warning about doing other troubleshooting before replacing the circuit board. 

 Yo Jim, FWIW I happen to agree. Trying easy simple FREE fixes BEFORE throwing expensive parts at a problem (KISS) it is just how I learned over 49 years of RV ownership and a career in electrical engineering LONG BEFORE READING ANY MANUALS. Sure a board failure remains a possibility, I've bought my share of them from Dinosaur Electronics that never failed thereafter, but I figure there's NO cost NO harm in FIRST performing basic troubleshooting and if a new board is required go for it. Connections, grounds, ribbon cable to board connector, flame sensor problem, low voltage is easy to repair and much CHEAPER  (assuming its an elec ignition system) and using the Troubleshooting Tips in the manual can even work IMAGINE THAT lol 

  Of course each are entitled to their own opinions and their own methods and procedures regarding how they diagnose and approach repairs, just because you and I happen to agree on this DOES NOT mean others need to. DONT LISTEN TO ME IM NOT AN ATWOOD TECHNICIAN...…..Check with trained competent professionals, vendors and manuals before me.....   

Best wishes, God Bless, take care yall

John T

Edited June 4, 2019 by oldjohnt

[markandkim]

8 hours ago, JimK said:

People do this frequently and usually for no purpose.  My manual even has a clear warning about doing other troubleshooting before replacing the circuit board.  Replacement of the board is rarely needed.  Most of the time the remedy was actually just a matter of unplugging and replugging the ribbon connector due to board replacement.  Do that first before replacing the board.  Also replace the inexpensive sensor before replacing the board.

Taking bets!

[Kirk W]

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Redoldcar said:

Thank you for all the replies

If you are still working on this problem, by far the most likely cause is the spark probe, which also is the sensor that detects the flame once it ignites. There are several different versions of probe so make sure that you get the one for your model. They usually cost between $20 & $30 and are readily available from most RV supply stores or from Amazon. 

                  

I strongly suggest that you not start by replacing the circuit board as those are quite expensive and can't be returned to the seller. In the past, I have probably replaced at least 30 spark probes in water heater belonging to me or my friends and so far I have replaced only 3 circuit boards in them. While I am not an expert, I did make my living in the service industry for 40 years. Before you start to swap parts to see if it helps, visit Bryant RV website and download this service manual for Atwood water heaters as it should be helpful. 

[Kirk W]

I don't know why but my links don't work so try this http://bryantrv.com/docs2/docs/atwoodwaterheater.pdflink to the Atwood Service Manual. 

[oldjohnt]

    FWIW in forty nine years (but years back they were NOT electronic, I'm guessing that's what OP has??) I've also seen many Flame Sensor/Ignitor Tip problems (versus the control board)  often a hairline crack,,,,,,,,, or carbon trace,,,,,,,,,,,, or incorrect gap,,,,,,,,,,,, or even a loose connection or bad ground to case (things and sheet metal attaching screws get loose or rusty you know). The tiny voltage drop across and current through a flame IS DIFFERENT then if there was no flame in the gap. That's how the tip sends a signal to the board so it can shut off the gas valve in the absence of a flame...…...  A bad board orrrrrrrrrr flame sensor problem may not allow the gas valve to stay open for safety...…….

  BUT OFTEN if that's (Ignitor Tip) bad it wont light in the first place HMMMMMMMMMMM !!!!!!!!!! The gas valve opens and then the boards HV coil/transformer/ignitor will send HV to the ignitor tip which creates sparks (Snap Snap Snap you hear) and ignites the gas. If the gap were incorrect or a bad ground or there's a shorting carbon path or a hairline crack the flame wont ignite in the first place and the board (if alllllllllll is working correct) causes gas valve closure (removes its coil voltage). If BOTH the flame sensor and board are working correct and the flame ignites the gas valve stays open WELL DUH LOL There needs to be BOTH a working sensor PLUS a working board to keep the gas valve open (but his closes, back again to our basic board orrrrrrrrrrrr sensor problem)  If its lighting but then the gas valve closes (he said it lights but goes out)  if that's due to an incorrect flame sense signal, the gap may be incorrect, or the Flame Sensor/Ignitor Tip bad. If that's all fine, then it back to a board problem grrrrrrrrr

 Based on years of experience I WOULD NOT TAKE ANY BETS if its a board or a Flame Sensor/Ignitor Tip Problem. The fact that it IS LIGHTING cuts "slightly" more in favor towards a board then a Flame Sensor/Ignitor problem.. HOWEVER AND REGARDLESS I always troubleshoot simple easy free or cheaper fixes (Ignitor tip much cheaper then board)  FIRST BEFORE  I blindly and foolishly pay big bucks for a new board. I'm NOT saying, guessing or betting if its a board or a Flame Sensor/Ignitor Tip OR OTHER problem like a bad ground or low voltage or a loose connection,  I'M ONLY SAYING  I would verify its NOT the tip or something simple BEFORE I ran out and bought a new board WHICH SURE COULD WELL TURN OUT TO BE THE PROBLEM............…especially considering the fact the flame is at least lighting in the first place (perhaps the Flame Sensor/Ignitor Tip is OK ??)

 And we don't even know the Model he has so this is only mere guessing in the meantime, still fun trying our best to help

John T 

Edited June 4, 2019 by oldjohnt

[Tcwndsr]

I resisted advice to change the board to later determine it was a low voltage problem (converter crapped out). Fixed that and haven’t had an issue  with my heater going on 2 years.

[Wrknrvr]

There is a 1/4" screw on the burner tube. On the right side where the burner assembly Is attached for grounding loosen and tighten that screw twice. Test operation.

 

Safe Travels,.  Vern

[markandkim]

Well?

[Redoldcar]

Thank you so much for the replies. I have been working 12 hour shifts for 17 days straight and am going to get the weekend off so I can try these remedies. 

[oldjohnt]

14 hours ago, Redoldcar said:

Thank you so much for the replies. I have been working 12 hour shifts for 17 days straight and am going to get the weekend off so I can try these remedies.

Thanks for the feedback. Basic free n easy simple troubleshooting using maybe just your eyes and/or a volt ohm meter looking for bad resistive grounds, loose mechanical connections (loose or rusty sheet metal screws), bad/resistive wiring connections or low voltage (if battery voltage is low try it with Converter/Charger working) may get you going, but if not then it may get more expensive like the control board (if needed check out Dinosaur Electronics). If you don't already have one downloading a manual will have a decent troubleshooting flow chart.

When I was young I had to work those kind of hours grrrrrrrrrr lol

Let us all know

John T

[RV_]

Did Redoldcar at ever say what model Atwood he had?

[Redoldcar]

Model GCH6A 10ES 

[oldjohnt]

Heres a manual for many Atwood Water Heaters and it has a troubleshooting procedure. That manual shows a GCH6A-10E----------------------------6 gal. electronic gas combo w/heat exchange  BUT you stated 10ES ??

http://bryantrv.com/docs2/docs/atwoodwaterheater.pdf

Regardless Id still start with checking for low voltage,,,,,,,,,,,bad loose or resistive ground connections,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,loose electrical connections,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,If it has a flat ribbon cable connector on the board ???? Id remove it n clean the flat brass looking board contacts then re attach,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,loose or corroded sheet metal attachment/grounding screws (including ignitor assembly to burner tube and if I recall a green grounding screw to case/frame) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Check for I believe its a proper 1/8" gap from ignitor to grounding tip (that also has to do with flame sensor circuitry that shuts gas valve off),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, even if it may turn out to be the more expensive control board, check easy simple free things first. The fact it is lighting but then goes out makes me think the flame sensor circuitry (includes ignitor tip and gap and control board) or a bad ground or a ribbon cable connector issue OR EVEN THE BOARD GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR may be the problem but there's many other possibilities of course.  

READ THE MANUAL AND WORK THROUGH ITS TROUBLESHOOTING, maybe its something cheap n simple, maybe its a board, maybe something else I cant say from here, sorry. 

John T

Edited June 9, 2019 by oldjohnt

[Redoldcar]

So I took the spark probe out cleaned it and aligned it with each other still no fix. Adjusted air mix still no fix. Here is a video of what it is still doing. You can see the spark probe still sparking between the two probes when lit. 

[Redoldcar]

Checking grounds now

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Redoldcar said:

You can see the spark probe still sparking between the two probes when lit. 

That probe is supposed to detect the heat of the burning propane and send a tiny signal(in micro-volts) back to the circuit board to let it know that the propane is burning. The continuing sparking is an indication that this function has failed. The return signal is too small to measure with most equipment that we carry so at this point you have to guess if the probe has failed or the circuit board is not reacting to it. From experience, I can tell you that the probe failure is far more common than the circuit board and it also costs only about 20% of what the circuit board will cost. If the ground suggested by WorknRVer doesn't help and if removing and reseating the electrical plugs to the circuit board several times doesn't help, I would replace that probe next. 

[oldjohnt]

Good Morning Red, Glad to hear you're checking grounds and thanks for the feedback

FYI How it works is (once t stat calls for heat, power is sent to the board, and gas valve opens) the boards HV coil/transformer sends HV pulses to the ignitor tip so she sparks sparks sparks until the flame starts. THEN IFFFFFFFFFFFF the flame sensor function, which is dependent upon A) The Ignitor tips flame sensor function (current through and voltage drop across the flame signal is sent to the board)    and  The Controls boards circuitry is functioning properly,,,,,,,,, the gas valve remains open and she STOPS SPARKING...……..

If she lights the boards HV coil/transformer is working and the board is correctly opening the gas valve and the ignitor tip is working AT LEAST AS FAR AS PRODUCING A SPARK ACROSS THE GAP IS CONCERNED. The flame sensor function is more critical and more subject to problems in gap distance and/or a resistive ground   INSURE CORRECT GAP AND A GOOD GROUND and try again...…….. 

HOWEVER if it doesn't stop sparking my best PURE GUESS not being there is a) The circuit board is at fault, this is suspect since the Ignitor Tip is at least lighting the flame (You said it lights then goes out right???)      or b)      An ignitor tip problem (gap incorrect or bad ground or crack or carbon).  A problem I had was I didn't have a circuit board tester and couldn't tell if between the two it was a board orrrrrrrrrrr an Ignitor Tip/Flame Sensor problem. RV dealers have board testers and I think Dinosaur may sell them I've just never owned one.  

FWIW here's my approach and reasoning to the problem ifffffffffffff it turns out to be a board or an Ignitor Tip problem............….Even if you need a new board, for no more then the cost Id replace the Ignitor Tip/Flame Sensor at the same time. That being said, and based on 49 years of RV ownership and troubleshooting, with no method to determine if the problem is the board or Ignitor Tip (assuming one of those is indeed the problem), if you start with the less expensive Ignitor Tip and that solves the problem, you save a hundred bucks, but if you still need a new board you already have a new Ignitor Tip/Flame Sensor so the system should be good to go yayyyyyyyyy 

 Best I have to offer not being there so try this and the manuals Troubleshooting Procedure and let us know what you find. ALSO I would remove n clean the brass looking flat contacts where the flat ribbon connector connects to the board (IF that's what your heater has??) and if necessary remove n clean n wire brush all the grounding and mounting screws including Ignitor Tip to burner tube. MAYBE YOU WILL LUCK OUT AND NOT NEED TO BUY ANYTHING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or bite the bullet and get a new board if that proves necessary...…..Good Luck

John T

Edited June 9, 2019 by oldjohnt

[Redoldcar]

LThank you for the replies. Going to replace the probe and see what happens.