Mark Noakes Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Been on the road now for nearly 4 years. Have not figured out how to get a bank account in South Dakota given the Patriot act and what seems to be every bank and credit unions bias toward full-time RVers. Has anyone figured this out in South Dakota and in particular, if you have the standard Escapees PMB address? Is there a bank or a credit union in South Dakota that is willing to allow anyone in the full-time RV community to open a bank account - personal or business? As an example, I would love to start a business but cannot find a bank or credit union in South Dakota willing to work with full-time RVers that have a PMB. I'm sure I'm not alone. There must be a whole lot of people looking for this same ability. Would love to hear what you have found out, especially if you were successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappir Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 Why change your bank accounts? Just keep the ones you have and change your address to your South Dakota address. I've been on the road for over 10 years and still have the same accounts as I had before I started. Well, I did change banks but not the town the banks were located in. Rod Quote White 2000/2010Volvo VNL 770 with 7' Drom box with opposing doors, JOST slider hitch. 600 HP Cummins Signature 18 Speed three pedal auto shift. 1999 Isuzu VehiCross retired to a sticks and bricks garage. Brought out of storage the summer of 2022 2022 Jeep Wrangler Sport S Two door hard top. 2023 Triumph Tiger 1200 GT Explorer 2013 Space Craft Mfg S420 Custom built Toyhauler The Gold Volvo is still running and for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 And you don't have a PMB. You rent a suite from Escapees. A very small suite, but a suite. The bank software may still trip on the address, but don't hamstring yourself at the gate by calling it a PMB, a mail box, or box number. Quote I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 If you are a member of Escapees RV Club and using their mail service, let me suggest that you call the business office (Phone 936-327-8873) and get help & advice there. Changing what you call your box number will do nothing for you as businesses use a USPS data base to verify all addresses and no matter what you write down the bank will know that you use a PMB andare trying to hide that. There is an alternative allowed in the baking laws that set address requirements and the Escapees have dealt with that many times. As an alternative, you could change to the TX Escapees address as the businesses in the Livingston area are very familiar with those alternatives and have no problems dealing with them. Quote Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Noakes Posted January 9 Author Report Share Posted January 9 13 hours ago, lappir said: Why change your bank accounts? Just keep the ones you have and change your address to your South Dakota address. I've been on the road for over 10 years and still have the same accounts as I had before I started. Well, I did change banks but not the town the banks were located in. Rod Already tried that. They instantaneously identified the South Dakota address as a PMB and denied opening the account. Thanks for the advice though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Noakes Posted January 9 Author Report Share Posted January 9 11 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said: And you don't have a PMB. You rent a suite from Escapees. A very small suite, but a suite. The bank software may still trip on the address, but don't hamstring yourself at the gate by calling it a PMB, a mail box, or box number. Actually the banks are well aware of escapees mailboxes. It's in their database. They know their PMBs even if you don't put PMB on the address when you try to apply. Been there done that. Thanks anyways, appreciate the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Noakes Posted January 9 Author Report Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, Kirk W said: If you are a member of Escapees RV Club and using their mail service, let me suggest that you call the business office (Phone 936-327-8873) and get help & advice there. Changing what you call your box number will do nothing for you as businesses use a USPS data base to verify all addresses and no matter what you write down the bank will know that you use a PMB andare trying to hide that. There is an alternative allowed in the baking laws that set address requirements and the Escapees have dealt with that many times. As an alternative, you could change to the TX Escapees address as the businesses in the Livingston area are very familiar with those alternatives and have no problems dealing with them. I not only called the business office but I submitted an email request to the executive team. They appear to have no stomach for attempting to make this workable for South Dakota members. Citing the patriot act as the reason. Well I used to work in banking and know that act like the back of my hand. Had to take tests every year related to it. Nowhere in that act does it say it is mandatory to have a physical residential address. It's simply says you need to be able to be located, whether that be through next of kin, another contact or even a rural mailbox. This is clearly addressed in the CIP of the Patriot act. Banks and credit unions are simply overreaching and eliminating the ability of full-time RVers, homeless people, transients (of which we are defined as being by the mere fact, we don't have a physical residential address), for the purposes of excluding this entire community of people in the US from being able to utilize financial services. They're using the patriot act as an excuse. And are fully aware of what they are doing but care not. I'm sure someone out there has figured out how to get around of this. And I would love to hear from them on this forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danfreda1 Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 We have been using escapees South Dakota pmb address for 4 years and our bank in Illinois uses it as an address and we’ve had no problems. Our Morgan Stanley accounts uses the pmb but we had to give another address to be located at. Used my brothers address. It’s not for mailing purposes. All has been fine. Quote 2021 New Horizon Majestic 2021 kenworth T-680 2013 smart car 2015 rzr900s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danfreda1 Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 16 minutes ago, Mark Noakes said: I not only called the business office but I submitted an email request to the executive team. They appear to have no stomach for attempting to make this workable for South Dakota members. Citing the patriot act as the reason. Well I used to work in banking and know that act like the back of my hand. Had to take tests every year related to it. Nowhere in that act does it say it is mandatory to have a physical residential address. It's simply says you need to be able to be located, whether that be through next of kin, another contact or even a rural mailbox. This is clearly addressed in the CIP of the Patriot act. Banks and credit unions are simply overreaching and eliminating the ability of full-time RVers, homeless people, transients (of which we are defined as being by the mere fact, we don't have a physical residential address), for the purposes of excluding this entire community of people in the US from being able to utilize financial services. They're using the patriot act as an excuse. And are fully aware of what they are doing but care not. I'm sure someone out there has figured out how to get around of this. And I would love to hear from them on this forum! Agree with you Quote 2021 New Horizon Majestic 2021 kenworth T-680 2013 smart car 2015 rzr900s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmk Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 I had to go through this process recently as I changed my business to SD, dissolving an s-corp from one state and creating a new LLC in SD. Since I use a Nation wide bank I actually created my accounts while in another state. In my case I used my in-laws physical address, then made sure all contact (mailing address) is set up to use my PMB. Most correspondence set up for online too. This is also an issue when it comes to purchasing firearms. Quote 2005 Freightliner Century Class S/T, Detroit 60 Series 14L, Eaton Fuller 10spd Ultrashift, w/3:73 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbh Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 PMB is a problem. I don't know how it works in SD, but in FL I have an Escapees "physical address" AND a PMB Texas Escapees mail-forwarding address. The Escapees address at Sumter Oaks is a real physical address I could live at and is on my driver license, insurance etc. PMB is an entirely different matter. Quote -C&J- CG reviews & more - www.fugawetribe.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 While there are state banking laws, the regulations coming from the Patriot Act are federal laws and they apply to all financial institutions in the USA, no matter where they are located. As Mark previously stated, there is provision for an alternative address in the banking regulations but it can be difficult to get the people you are dealing with to use the provisions. Quote Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kymber Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 I've been on the road for a while too, and getting a bank account can be a real headache. I've heard some folks in the RV community talking about using local credit unions in South Dakota, but it seems hit or miss. Maybe check out Black Hills Federal Credit Union or Dakotaland Federal Credit Union? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblr Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 18 hours ago, Kymber said: I've been on the road for a while too, and getting a bank account can be a real headache. I've heard some folks in the RV community talking about using local credit unions in South Dakota, but it seems hit or miss. Maybe check out Black Hills Federal Credit Union or Dakotaland Federal Credit Union? If a credit union would work, I would suggest that if they are in what's called the Shared Branch system to use that one as then you can use other credit unions in the system while traveling. We use one now that we have at home and works out well, but you do have to look ahead to see what might be available where your headed. Quote 2017 River Stone Legacy 38MB 2001 T2000 Kenworth 2009 Smart Passion ET Junior hitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Noakes Posted January 12 Author Report Share Posted January 12 3 hours ago, dblr said: If a credit union would work, I would suggest that if they are in what's called the Shared Branch system to use that one as then you can use other credit unions in the system while traveling. We use one now that we have at home and works out well, but you do have to look ahead to see what might be available where your headed. Thank you. Helpful information, the search goes on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 On 1/9/2024 at 10:04 AM, Mark Noakes said: I'm sure someone out there has figured out how to get around of this. If you were in Livingston, TX you would find that pretty much all financial organizations understand the law & related banking regulations, and they work with fulltime RV folks on a frequent basis. Unfortunately, the reach of the Escapees seems to be pretty limited in distance because we are too small a part of the the financial market. Polk Co. TX is a rural area with a small population so the Escapees are a very significant market there. Quote Section 326 of the USA PATRIOT ACT requires all financial institutions to obtain, verify, and record information that identifies each person who opens an account or changes an existing account. This federal requirement applies to all new customers and current customers. Quote Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Noakes Posted January 12 Author Report Share Posted January 12 2 hours ago, Kirk W said: If you were in Livingston, TX you would find that pretty much all financial organizations understand the law & related banking regulations, and they work with fulltime RV folks on a frequent basis. Unfortunately, the reach of the Escapees seems to be pretty limited in distance because we are too small a part of the the financial market. Polk Co. TX is a rural area with a small population so the Escapees are a very significant market there. The final ruling in the Customer Identification Program (CIP) section 31 C.F.R. § 103.121(b)(2)(i) (adopted as part of the US Patriot Act) that addresses opening accounts states the following. (Note that it does not exclude any US citizens (or full-time RVrs)who are citizens of the US. By definition, a very large number of us live in rural areas and do not have a physical residential or business address. The ruling specifically points to a location which can be a rural area. According to the ruling we can use a roadside mailbox number so that the bank knows our approximate location. This should suffice as required information for the bank so that we can open bank accounts freely without violating the law is set forth by the act.): "For customers who live in rural areas who do not have a residential or business address or the residential or business address of next of kin or another contact individual, the number on the roadside mailbox on a rural route is acceptable as an address. A rural route number, unlike a post office box number, is a description of the approximate area where the customer can be located. In the absence of such a number and in the absence of a residential or business address for next of kin or another contact individual, a description of the customer’s physical location will suffice". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandsys Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Mark Noakes said: "For customers who live in rural areas who do not have a residential or business address or the residential or business address of next of kin or another contact individual, the number on the roadside mailbox on a rural route is acceptable as an address. I thought all rural route addresses went away with the beginning of the 911 system. I know my Dad's address changed after about 50 years of living there and he gave me the 911 system as the reason why. It's no longer RR 8 Box 412. Linda Quote Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/ Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Noakes Posted January 12 Author Report Share Posted January 12 36 minutes ago, sandsys said: I thought all rural route addresses went away with the beginning of the 911 system. I know my Dad's address changed after about 50 years of living there and he gave me the 911 system as the reason why. It's no longer RR 8 Box 412. Linda According to the post office, the manage around 49 million rural route mailboxes Nationwide and that number is growing. Looks like they're still going strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 5 hours ago, Mark Noakes said: Looks like they're still going strong. I have several friends and relatives who farm that have addresses of a route number and box number. Quote Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandsys Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 Obviously, I 'm wrong. Maybe the real reason my Dad's address changed was that they had to pick up the house and move it back into the former picnic area because a new highway was built too close to their house for it to stay there. So, they actually built a long driveway to his house that now has a couple other houses on it. So, maybe they gave that long driveway a name and called it a street--although they named it Nell Drive? Linda Quote Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/ Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanZemke Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 Mark, The Patriot Act is most likely, just a convenient excuse. IMO, the root cause is probably that they don't want your business. Is there anything you could do, that would increase your attractiveness to them? Dan Quote Volvo 770, New Horizons Majestic and an upcoming Smart car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 2 hours ago, DanZemke said: IMO, the root cause is probably that they don't want your business. Are you saying that banks don't want the business of those who live in an RV, or just his? His is a very common problem for people in the RV community with no real property address. Quote Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanZemke Posted January 14 Report Share Posted January 14 2 hours ago, Kirk W said: Are you saying that banks don't want the business of those who live in an RV, or just his? His is a very common problem for people in the RV community with no real property address. I'm saying that banks and credit unions are risk averse, especially for small, retail accounts. And that their first-level customer support folks don't have the power to override company policies like: a residential mailing address is required to open an account. IMO, the RV part is incidental and the Patriot Act is an excuse used for their desire to minimize potential audit hassles. Quote Volvo 770, New Horizons Majestic and an upcoming Smart car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyretired Posted January 14 Report Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, DanZemke said: I'm saying that banks and credit unions are risk averse, especially for small, retail accounts. And that their first-level customer support folks don't have the power to override company policies like: a residential mailing address is required to open an account. IMO, the RV part is incidental and the Patriot Act is an excuse used for their desire to minimize potential audit hassles. I tend to agree. Banks, credit unions and so on like everything to be normal. As soon as things get different the employees are reluctant to deal with it. Often if their legal even hears about they are not interested. Years ago my estate plan included a partnership. This was not a business but I had numerous problems with banks and credit unions. Some of my assets are still listed under the partnership and it still causes problems. Quote Randy 2001 Volvo VNL 42 Cummins ISX Autoshift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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