South Dakota, PMBs and Bank Accounts, Oh My!

[Mark Noakes]

Been on the road now for nearly 4 years. Have not figured out how to get a bank account in South Dakota given the Patriot act and what seems to be every bank and credit unions bias toward full-time RVers. Has anyone figured this out in South Dakota and in particular, if you have the standard Escapees PMB address? Is there a bank or a credit union in South Dakota that is willing to allow anyone in the full-time RV community to open a bank account - personal or business? As an example, I would love to start a business but cannot find a bank or credit union in South Dakota willing to work with full-time RVers that have a PMB. I'm sure I'm not alone. There must be a whole lot of people looking for this same ability. Would love to hear what you have found out, especially if you were successful.

[lappir]

Why change your bank accounts? Just keep the ones you have and change your address to your South Dakota address. I've been on the road for over 10 years and still have the same accounts as I had before I started. Well, I did change banks but not the town the banks were located in. 

Rod

 

[Darryl&Rita]

And you don't have a PMB. You rent a suite from Escapees. A very small suite, but a suite. The bank software may still trip on the address, but don't hamstring yourself at the gate by calling it a PMB, a mail box, or box number.

[Kirk W]

If you are a member of Escapees RV Club and using their mail service, let me suggest that you call the business office (Phone 936-327-8873) and get help & advice there. Changing what you call your box number will do nothing for you as businesses use a USPS data base to verify all addresses and no matter what you write down the bank will know that you use a PMB andare trying to hide that. There is an alternative allowed in the baking laws that set address requirements and the Escapees have dealt with that many times. As an alternative, you could change to the TX Escapees address as the businesses in the Livingston area are very familiar with those alternatives and have no problems dealing with them. 

[Mark Noakes]

13 hours ago, lappir said:

Why change your bank accounts? Just keep the ones you have and change your address to your South Dakota address. I've been on the road for over 10 years and still have the same accounts as I had before I started. Well, I did change banks but not the town the banks were located in. 

Rod

 

Already tried that. They instantaneously identified the South Dakota address as a PMB and denied opening the account. Thanks for the advice though.

[Mark Noakes]

11 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

And you don't have a PMB. You rent a suite from Escapees. A very small suite, but a suite. The bank software may still trip on the address, but don't hamstring yourself at the gate by calling it a PMB, a mail box, or box number.

Actually the banks are well aware of escapees mailboxes. It's in their database. They know their PMBs even if you don't put PMB on the address when you try to apply. Been there done that. Thanks anyways, appreciate the info.

[Mark Noakes]

1 hour ago, Kirk W said:

If you are a member of Escapees RV Club and using their mail service, let me suggest that you call the business office (Phone 936-327-8873) and get help & advice there. Changing what you call your box number will do nothing for you as businesses use a USPS data base to verify all addresses and no matter what you write down the bank will know that you use a PMB andare trying to hide that. There is an alternative allowed in the baking laws that set address requirements and the Escapees have dealt with that many times. As an alternative, you could change to the TX Escapees address as the businesses in the Livingston area are very familiar with those alternatives and have no problems dealing with them. 

I not only called the business office but I submitted an email request to the executive team. They appear to have no stomach for attempting to make this workable for South Dakota members. Citing the patriot act as the reason. Well I used to work in banking and know that act like the back of my hand. Had to take tests every year related to it. Nowhere in that act does it say it is mandatory to have a physical residential address. It's simply says you need to be able to be located, whether that be through next of kin, another contact or even a rural mailbox. This is clearly addressed in the CIP of the Patriot act. Banks and credit unions are simply overreaching and eliminating the ability of full-time RVers, homeless people, transients (of which we are defined as being by the mere fact, we don't have a physical residential address), for the purposes of excluding this entire community of people in the US from being able to utilize financial services. They're using the patriot act as an excuse. And are fully aware of what they are doing but care not. I'm sure someone out there has figured out how to get around of this. And I would love to hear from them on this forum!

[Danfreda1]

We have been using escapees South Dakota pmb address for 4 years and our bank in Illinois uses it as an address and we’ve had no problems. Our Morgan Stanley accounts uses the pmb but we had to give another address to be located at. Used my brothers address. It’s not for mailing purposes. All has been fine. 

[Danfreda1]

16 minutes ago, Mark Noakes said:

I not only called the business office but I submitted an email request to the executive team. They appear to have no stomach for attempting to make this workable for South Dakota members. Citing the patriot act as the reason. Well I used to work in banking and know that act like the back of my hand. Had to take tests every year related to it. Nowhere in that act does it say it is mandatory to have a physical residential address. It's simply says you need to be able to be located, whether that be through next of kin, another contact or even a rural mailbox. This is clearly addressed in the CIP of the Patriot act. Banks and credit unions are simply overreaching and eliminating the ability of full-time RVers, homeless people, transients (of which we are defined as being by the mere fact, we don't have a physical residential address), for the purposes of excluding this entire community of people in the US from being able to utilize financial services. They're using the patriot act as an excuse. And are fully aware of what they are doing but care not. I'm sure someone out there has figured out how to get around of this. And I would love to hear from them on this forum!

Agree with you

[dmk]

I had to go through this process recently as I changed my business to SD, dissolving an s-corp from one state and creating a new LLC in SD. Since I use a Nation wide bank I actually created my accounts while in another state. In my case I used my in-laws physical address, then made sure all contact (mailing address) is set up to use my PMB. Most correspondence set up for online too.  This is also an issue when it comes to purchasing firearms. 

[jbh]

PMB is a problem. I don't know how it works in SD, but in FL I have an Escapees "physical address" AND a PMB Texas Escapees mail-forwarding address. The Escapees address at Sumter Oaks is a real physical address I could live at and is on my driver license, insurance etc. PMB is an entirely different matter.

[Kirk W]

While there are state banking laws, the regulations coming from the Patriot Act are federal laws and they apply to all financial institutions in the USA, no matter where they are located. As Mark previously stated, there is provision for an alternative address in the banking regulations but it can be difficult to get the people you are dealing with to use the provisions. 

[Kymber]

I've been on the road for a while too, and getting a bank account can be a real headache. I've heard some folks in the RV community talking about using local credit unions in South Dakota, but it seems hit or miss. Maybe check out Black Hills Federal Credit Union or Dakotaland Federal Credit Union?

[dblr]

18 hours ago, Kymber said:

I've been on the road for a while too, and getting a bank account can be a real headache. I've heard some folks in the RV community talking about using local credit unions in South Dakota, but it seems hit or miss. Maybe check out Black Hills Federal Credit Union or Dakotaland Federal Credit Union?

If a credit union would work, I would suggest that if they are in what's called the Shared Branch system to use that one as then you can use other credit unions in the system while traveling. We use one now that we have at home and works out well, but you do have to look ahead to see what might be available where your headed.

[Mark Noakes]

3 hours ago, dblr said:

If a credit union would work, I would suggest that if they are in what's called the Shared Branch system to use that one as then you can use other credit unions in the system while traveling. We use one now that we have at home and works out well, but you do have to look ahead to see what might be available where your headed.

Thank you. Helpful information, the search goes on!

[Kirk W]

On 1/9/2024 at 10:04 AM, Mark Noakes said:

I'm sure someone out there has figured out how to get around of this.

If you were in Livingston, TX you would find that pretty much all financial organizations understand the law & related banking regulations, and they work with fulltime RV folks on a frequent basis. Unfortunately, the reach of the Escapees seems to be pretty limited in distance because we are too small a part of the the financial market. Polk Co. TX is a rural area with a small population so the Escapees are a very significant market there.

Quote

Section 326 of the USA PATRIOT ACT requires all financial institutions to obtain, verify, and record information that identifies each person who opens an account or changes an existing account. This federal requirement applies to all new customers and current customers.

 

[Mark Noakes]

2 hours ago, Kirk W said:

If you were in Livingston, TX you would find that pretty much all financial organizations understand the law & related banking regulations, and they work with fulltime RV folks on a frequent basis. Unfortunately, the reach of the Escapees seems to be pretty limited in distance because we are too small a part of the the financial market. Polk Co. TX is a rural area with a small population so the Escapees are a very significant market there.

 

The final ruling in the Customer Identification Program (CIP) section 31 C.F.R. § 103.121(b)(2)(i) (adopted as part of the US Patriot Act) that addresses opening accounts states the following. (Note that it does not exclude any US citizens (or full-time RVrs)who are citizens of the US. By definition, a very large number of us live in rural areas and do not have a physical residential or business address. The ruling specifically points to a location which can be a rural area. According to the ruling we can use a roadside mailbox number so that the bank knows our approximate location. This should suffice as required information for the bank so that we can open bank accounts freely without violating the law is set forth by the act.):

"For customers who live in rural areas who do not have a residential or business address or the residential or business address of next of kin or another contact individual, the number on the roadside mailbox on a rural route is acceptable as an address. A rural route number, unlike a post office box number, is a description of the approximate area where the customer can be located. In the absence of such a number and in the absence of a residential or business address for next of kin or another contact individual, a description of the customer’s physical location will suffice".

[sandsys]

1 hour ago, Mark Noakes said:

"For customers who live in rural areas who do not have a residential or business address or the residential or business address of next of kin or another contact individual, the number on the roadside mailbox on a rural route is acceptable as an address.

I thought all rural route addresses went away with the beginning of the 911 system. I know my Dad's address changed after about 50 years of living there and he gave me the 911 system as the reason why. It's no longer RR 8 Box 412.

Linda

[Mark Noakes]

36 minutes ago, sandsys said:

I thought all rural route addresses went away with the beginning of the 911 system. I know my Dad's address changed after about 50 years of living there and he gave me the 911 system as the reason why. It's no longer RR 8 Box 412.

Linda

According to the post office, the manage around 49 million rural route mailboxes Nationwide and that number is growing. Looks like they're still going strong.

[Kirk W]

5 hours ago, Mark Noakes said:

Looks like they're still going strong.

I have several friends and relatives who farm that have addresses of a route number and box number. 

[sandsys]

Obviously, I 'm wrong. Maybe the real reason my Dad's address changed was that they had to pick up the house and move it back into the former picnic area because a new highway was built too close to their house for it to stay there. So, they actually built a long driveway to his house that now has a couple other houses on it. So, maybe they gave that long driveway a name and called it a street--although they named it Nell Drive?

Linda

[DanZemke]

Mark,

The Patriot Act is most likely, just a convenient excuse.  IMO, the root cause is probably that they don't want your business.

Is there anything you could do, that would increase your attractiveness to them? 

Dan

[Kirk W]

2 hours ago, DanZemke said:

IMO, the root cause is probably that they don't want your business.

Are you saying that banks don't want the business of those who live in an RV, or just his? His is a very common problem for people in the RV community with no real property address. 

[DanZemke]

2 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Are you saying that banks don't want the business of those who live in an RV, or just his? His is a very common problem for people in the RV community with no real property address. 

I'm saying that banks and credit unions are risk averse, especially for small, retail accounts.  And that their first-level customer support folks don't have the power to override company policies like: a residential mailing address is required to open an account. 

IMO, the RV part is incidental and the Patriot Act is an excuse used for their desire to minimize potential audit hassles.

 

[Randyretired]

1 minute ago, DanZemke said:

I'm saying that banks and credit unions are risk averse, especially for small, retail accounts.  And that their first-level customer support folks don't have the power to override company policies like: a residential mailing address is required to open an account. 

IMO, the RV part is incidental and the Patriot Act is an excuse used for their desire to minimize potential audit hassles.

 

I tend to agree.  Banks, credit unions and so on like everything to be normal.  As soon as things get different the employees are reluctant to deal with it. Often if their legal even hears about they are not interested.   Years ago my estate plan included a partnership.  This was not a business but I had numerous problems with banks and credit unions.  Some of my assets are still listed under the partnership and it still causes problems.