Tesla recalls more than 362,000 cars for a software issue that may cause them to 'act unsafe around intersections'

RV_ · February 17

The Short version:

As I have said many times I am not buying Full Self Driving from Tesla until it is out of Beta.

However it is not a recall as most think of recalls. They found errors in the software just like when Apple or Microsoft does updates to their OS (Operating Systems) on their computers tablets and phones.

This is an Over the air update at no charge to the folks who have the BETA Full Self Driving or FSD. Just like all the improvements, new features, and safety updates I have received Over THe Air (OTA) since buying it in 2020. MY car is connected to my WiFi at home and my phone via the Tesla App that makes my phone a key and is used for a lot of settings etc.

Most of the articles I have read put that it is just an over the air update to a BETA program.in the last line.

Longer:

The Tesla owners who have FSD have been told not to use Full Self Driving, which is totally different than Tesla's Autopilot. Autopilot which is just adaptive cruise control with excellent lane keeping and doing stop and go traffic.

Musk earlier mentioned he is changing the FSD computer too on future Tesla vehicles. It won't be able to be retrofitted to previous year Tesla models.

But when all is said and done it is a software update to a BETA program. Trust me, Tesla owners all know about FSD being BETA.

Tempest in a Teapot.

Looks like I'll be getting one of the new ones Model Ys for future FSD. It is three years old almost anyway. Love it.

Just an example of negatively hyping a software update as a recall. If that is a recall, Apple has recalled their Macs, iPads, and iPhones, hundreds of times, every monthly most of the time.

A BETA program was found to have errors and is being updated to fix it.

I like Business Insier because they put that up front.

Excerpt:

Tesla recalls more than 362,000 cars for a software issue that may cause them to 'act unsafe around intersections'

A Tesla car dealership in Maplewood, Minnesota. Michael Siluk/Getty Images

Tesla will issue an over-the-air software update to more than 362,000 cars, NHTSA said Thursday.
The carmaker issued the recall over concerns its FSD software may cause it to act "unsafe" in intersections.
NHTSA said the beta software "increases the risk of a crash."

Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-recall-fsd-ful-self-driving-issue-crash-software-update-2023-2#:~:text=Tesla issued a recall on about 362%2C758 of,to address the issue%2C according to the agency.

Yep Biz Insider led with that it is an OTA update to a BETA program.

Chalkie · February 17

I think in this digital age we're going to have rethink what a "recall" is since it no longer entails a visit to a dealer or repair facility. As a verb recall means "bring back" or "summon back" to a specific place. Now I think it just means a repair ordered by the NHTSA, no matter how conducted. Watch for future changes to Merriam-Webster. 🤣

RV_ · February 17

4 hours ago, Chalkie said:

Now I think it just means a repair ordered by the NHTSA, no matter how conducted.

What makes you think this recall was ordered by the NHTSA? It was voluntary not ordered. The difference is that this was known as a BETA program and precautions were taken. All voluntary recalls have to be done with the knowl;edge and approval of the NHTSA.

Other recalls like the ones I have had for Air Bags that can shoot shrapnel at you like a point blank shotgun blast, and the the Chevy ignition switch recall in which there were deaths and they knew it was defective but held off until they could hide it no longer. In both instances the airbags and ignition switches were not pointed out as BETA nor any precautions given to owners.

Owners of the Chevy Bolts were not told up front that their cars could catch fire so don't park them in your garage because the batteries were BETA. They were sold as a done product. The NHTSA did order that massive recall which became one of the costliest in history.

I chose not to order my Tesla without FSD because it is BETA and could be added later.

I was fully briefed on it before I bought it and told that there were restrictions to use it because it is a BETA program.

Not having FSD is like not having a roof rack in that it has no effect on how the car operates. With or without a roof rack is no big deal. And I stressed out a lot trying out autopilot until I saw it did actually work quite well.

However, from what I am seeing the hardware is also going to change so I may be getting a new Tesla Y in a year or so with all the improvements. But I could not be happier with my Tesla regardless. I was interested in FSD for when I have to hang up my keys and needed to let the car do the driving and not have to depend on others. Independence is important to all of us.

Now let's see how other companies fare. See Mercedes is going Tesla one better with Level 3 self driving. Tesla's FSD is only level 2. I hope they ace it and Tesla does too before I hit 80 in ten years. So for all those Tesla haters reading this here's your chance to see another company innovate better than Tesla. I am cheering for Mercedes to succeed too! Once perfected we all can order it in whatever brand EV we choose and even fossil fueled vehicles! 👍😊🖖

Here is that info:

Mercedes Gets the OK to Roll Out Advanced Autonomous Driving in Nevada

Beating Tesla to the punch, Mercedes can activate Level 3 autonomous driving technology in 2024 model year S-Class and EQS Sedans, starting in Nevada.

Excerpt:

" 00YV61vJd0MCugPp6VLschw-2.fit_lim.v16747 Mercedes EQS sedan. (Credit: Mercedes)

The state of Nevada has officially given Mercedes permission to sell vehicles with the most advanced autonomous software available to US consumers.

Mercedes first announced(Opens in a new window) Nevada had accepted its application at CES 2023 earlier this month; as of Thursday, the final certification steps are complete.

Mercedes S-Class and EQS Sedans for the 2024 model year will have Level 3 autonomous capabilities, with the first customer deliveries beginning in the second half of 2023. Last year, Mercedes also became the first automaker in Europe to achieve this certification, and has been selling vehicles with the software in Germany since May 2022."

https://www.pcmag.com/news/mercedes-gets-the-ok-to-roll-out-advanced-autonomous-driving-in-nevada

Edited February 17 by RV_

docj · February 17

"The recall is voluntary, meaning that it was jointly agreed upon by Tesla and NHTSA. The “remedy” will be a free over-the-air software update for Tesla owners, who will be notified of its availability by April 15." from Slate https://slate.com/technology/2023/02/tesla-recall-full-self-driving-nhtsa-musk-regulation.html

In the world of recalls, a "voluntary recall" doesn't mean that it is really voluntary. It simply means that NHTSA didn't have to force the manufacturer to make the recall. Let's not make it seem as if this is an altruistic gesture on the part of a company interested in public safety.

From Forbes: Tesla disagrees with the NHTSA’s findings but went forward with the recall “out of an abundance of caution." That's a way of saying that if we didn't agree to the recall it would be forced upon us! LOL

FWIW:

Car Manufacturers Who Have Recalled The Most Cars Since 2022–And How Tesla Fits In

Ford: 9,141,131 cars, 72 recalls
Tesla: 4,132,303 cars, 21 recalls
General Motors: 3,415,313 cars, 34 recalls
Fiat-Chrysler/Stellantis: 3,338,259 cars, 33 recalls
Nissan: 2,037,432 cars, 16 recalls
Kia: 1,490,939 cars, 26 recalls
Hyundai: 1,468,531 cars, 24 recalls
Mercedes-Benz: 1,417,652, 35 recalls
Volkswagen: 1,100,114 cars, 47 recalls
BMW: 1,038,420 cars, 26 recalls

Note: Most Tesla recalls have been completed using "over the air' updates rather than visits back to the dealership.

Edited February 17 by docj

RV_ · February 17

Joel,

I never said it was altruistic. I said it was not forced. However you word it. In your last line you said:

"Note: Most Tesla recalls have been completed using "over the air' updates rather than visits back to the dealership."

Joel with all due respects if you call over the air (OTA) updates recalls there are thousands of pages of OTA Most have been OTA but let's put that in perspective, here is a website with all Tesla OTA updates. I went to page 2081 with at least four updates per page to all variants of the Model Y. That represents thousand of thousands of safety, performance and new feature updates. So I guess when the NHTSA is not jointly involved they are not fixes. https://teslascope.com/teslapedia/software/history?model=modely&page=2081

I can't vouch for them but I can tell you that my OTA software updates, which this is, have been from one to several times a month since I owned it. They included adding side views farther back when backing up so instead of the one rear camera showing on the screen I now see the right and left views much further back which helps when backing out of a space between two trucks, and they added a view of my blind spots when I use the directional among hundreds of others.

If most manufacturers have so much as a flash of the software to do, they have to call the customer into the dealership for reprogramming.

Let's nor forget that the FSD programming is only on cars where the customers opted to pay for it as a BETA. I declined so it does no affect me or any other Tesla owner who declined to buy it. Not having it turns out to be a great decision in hindsight.

Now let's see who gets it right first. The winner will initially be a winner but when one gets it out of BETA all the rest will get FSD right too, or soon thereafter, or quit making them because they could not compete. Free market.

In other words with all the manufacturers working on it we will as consumers soon have the same FSD available sooner than later. Even fossil fueled and hybrids will or may have it.

Edited February 18 by RV_

Chalkie · February 18

19 hours ago, RV_ said:

What makes you think this recall was ordered by the NHTSA? It was voluntary not ordered. The difference is that this was known as a BETA program and precautions were taken. All voluntary recalls have to be done with the knowl;edge and approval of the NHTSA.

OK, I will amend it to mean a recall from either the company or NHTSA but it is still redefining the word recall as it does not require returning to a place. I was just pointing out the morphing of our language.

Kirk W · February 18

Quote

What makes you think this recall was ordered by the NHTSA?

Some of us can get pretty defensive....... 🥴

RV_ · February 18

20 minutes ago, Chalkie said:

OK, I will amend it to mean a recall from either the company or NHTSA but it is still redefining the word recall as it does not require returning to a place. I was just pointing out the morphing of our language.

I agree with you there Gary.

RV_ · February 18

More here Gary:

"Based on the defect notice, NHTSA raised its issue with Tesla about FSD Beta on January 25, 2023, and the automaker met with the regulators on several occasions until February 7.

Tesla disagreed with NHTSA’s analysis, but it decided to do a voluntary recall:

On February 7, 2023, while not concurring with the agency’s analysis, Tesla decided to administer a voluntary recall out of an abundance of caution.

Tesla also confirmed that it identified 18 warranty claims between May 8, 2019, and September 12, 2022, that it believes “may be related to the conditions” described in the recall notice. The company says that is not aware of any injuries or deaths that may be related to such conditions."

https://electrek.co/2023/02/16/tesla-recall-full-self-driving-beta-update-nhtsa-may-cause-crash/

Ray,IN · February 25

I have no doubt it will improve.

Edited February 25 by Ray,IN

RV_ · February 28

Ray,Tomorrow is Tesla Investor's day and we expect to hear some important good news. I am going to post this in its own thread. See the difference in Tesla manufacturing evolution and compare it to others - check this out:

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/02/28/tesla-investor-day-2023-will-this-change-everything/