Gen 1 Autoshift. Won’t hold gear

[Jim Hicks]

Good afternoon Gents,  I am looking for some ideas here in troubleshooting my Gen 1 Autoshift.  This  three pedal Gen 1 Autoshift is on my 2001 VNL610.  I have downloaded the troubleshooting guide for the Tranny, and used the procedure to get Active as well as Inactive codes.  Unfortunately it is not throwing any codes.  

All of the problems I am having are in the upper gears.  Primarily in 9 and 10.  When traveling in rolling hills the truck was shifting in and out of 8/9/10 based on load and rpm as normal.  Eventually it would hang up and not upshift.  Downshifted fine but would not come back up.  Eventually I pulled over, reset the ECM and would go again.  Limped into DFW where my BIL and I took the floor pan and doghouse out to get a look.  Cleaned up all of the connections Tidied up the wiring, and drove it a few miles bobtail and put it through its paces. We could not recreate the symptoms!

We then put the doghouse and interior back together, I hooked up to the trailer and headed south to Houston.  (Loaded this time, no bobtail). We made it about 20 miles before the symptoms came back.      Only worse.  Rather than downshifting it would essentially timeout in a high gear. Once it timed out, the transmission would essentially drop out as if in neutral.  The only way it regain shifting was to stop the truck and reset the ecm by cycling the key.  (Cycling the key and waiting).  Once reset it will take off and shift again, until it holds the gear long enough to time out.

I was able to figure out that by manually shifting (With the buttons) every 60 seconds the tranny would stay in gear.  We made the remainder of the trip to home by shifting back and forth from gear 9 to 10 on one minute intervals.

Any ideas?  I am. Thinking that if the ECM has interlocks where all parameters have to fall within spec, and it has a timeout or dropout feature, something may be providing an imput the ECM doesn’t like?  Yet it has no codes.

[Darryl&Rita]

What's your battery voltage at, when the problem is happening? The AutoShifts are incredibly sensitive to low voltage. The only time we've had problems, a battery was headed out.

[GreenPete]

From my own experiences, i’m gonna say that it sounds like a corroded pin in a wiring harness. I would start unclipping wiring harnesses & checking the pins....could be a broken wire too. Check for any wires that are chaffing. 

[Parrformance]

Go to the batteries, find the three connectors that have inline fuses.  Check the crimps at the battery.

The crimps that had great connection 20 years ago, no longer make good connections.  

Cut off the end, back to good wire, replace with good, copper battery ends.  Crimp the end, back fill with solder, cover with heat shrink.

One goes to ECM, one to the TCM, and one to someplace else.  Check the fuse holders are clean of corrosion and connectors are tight corrosion free.

 

[Jim Hicks]

Thanks for the feedback guys.  Battery voltage is good, just North of 13 volts without the engine running, and 14 while running.  All batteries are less than 12 month old, and from the same lot.  GreenPete, I did clean each one, used contact cleaner, brushed what I could and used dielectric while we were in DFW.  I will do that again though, never know if I missed one.

 

Parrformance, I will replace the connectors in question and clean all of those fuse holders as well.  Thanks for the ideas.  I spent the afternoon ripping out the rotten exhaust and am pricing parts to order for that as well.  Once I replace the exhaust I can retest the Tranny. I saw and old thread where BillR Mentioned Eaton had advised a new harness for similar issues.  For what appears to be $150 for an OEM harness I may pull the trigger on that as well.

[Parrformance]

I had excellent voltage as well, but the crimp connecter was crimped around the insulator and the contact to the unsheilded wire was about a millimeter.  This wall all covered by the factoryinsulator ob the terminal end.  Ring was clean and shiny copper, under the heat shrunk insulator it was corroded internally.

I still have the battery cable end somewhere, I should have taken a photo of just how it looked inside the outer covering.

How it ever made good connection I do not know, and I know now it was intermittently making no/very little connection with the internal corrosion.

[Parrformance]

Found it.

All inside a weatherproof jacket.

Wire not even stripped back to the end of the terminal.

Fead directly to the transmission control unit through a in line fuse.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Parrformance
Misspelling

[billr]

Hey Jim

Tranny power supply. Runs from battery to ECU on tranny. Common issue on old A/S. 
 

I had issues years ago ended up being the XY shifter and Eaton suggested changing the power supply as well. No more issues again. 
  
Good thing is you know how to pull the floor panel up to get access. 
 

Both easy change.  Go for it. Power supply wasn’t much and XY was a Reman with core was not terrible. 

 

[HERO Maker]

Hey Jim, good to see you're still around!  I am in total agreement with Parrformance and what Billr said.  My XY was changed out before I purchased the truck.  We still ended up with electrical issue.   Chase the wiring.

[Parrformance]

If you decide to replace the harness, the part number for the harness and where you sourced it would be great info to share.

[rickeieio]

We had different symptoms, but the fix was the same.  New x/y and the mechanic recommended changing the power harness.  A couple months later it crapped out too, but I had the new one on hand.  It can be changed through the battery compartment, rather than taking out the floor.

[Jim Hicks]

Ok, i have had the chance to do a little more research.  I haven’t looked at the truck again as I am at work.  I’m gonna look again when I get home tonight.  It looks like Parrformance, Rick and BillR all all refering to what I think Eaton is calling the P.I.M or Power Interface module. For my 2001 VNL610 this is part #4301645 or K-3281.  It is around $300 bucks.  Looks like this image I am attaching.  IS THIS WHAT YOU ALL ARE REFERRING TO REGARDING THE POWER SUPPLY?

Based on the image and the name of the component i think this is what you are all referring to./. The round rings are presumable the positIve and negative terminals for the battery.  The plugs presumably are to the battery ECM.  If so, I am going to visit those rings and replace them correctly like Parrformance mentioned.  I may end up simply replacing the entire shooting match for $300.

The wiring harness for the transmission I have gone through with a fine tuned comb.  Cleaned all connections, repaired chafed insulation, repaired chaffed wire, etc.  Everything has dielectric grease on it now.  (All of that did not fix it). The harness for my truck is Part # K-3352 which replaced part 691439 and 691301.  This part looks to be $528.  I need to do more research, but there does not appear to be an abundance of sources.

If the PIM goes straight from the battery to the ECM then it would be easy enough to replace without removing the doghouse.  As for the main transmission harness, I suppose that could be done as well, but having worked on it with the doghouse and floor pan out, I know it would be much easier to do with the floor pan out.  Since I have all of that out now I may just replace the whole setup.  First thing I am off to do is find the ring connectors Parrformance illustrated and see what they look like.  If anyone has any more affordable sources for these two wiring harnesses please let me know.  Thanks.

 

 

[rickeieio]

I think you're on the right track.  If one of those ring connectors is iffy, it could well be the culprit.

It's been a couple months shy of ten years since I changed the power harness, so I can't say for sure if it's the same as you show, but it nearly has to be.  Our trucks are the same vintage.  If you have the original wiring, you're due.

I didn't say it's easy to change the harness through the battery box, but I did it, and if I remember, I'm a bit "thicker" than you.  Plus, my arms are likely a bit shorter.  I left the old harness in place and just zip tied the new to it, planning to clean it up next time I've got the floor out.  Which I hope is never......

[billr]

Hey Jim while it could be related to the power supply if you have never changed the XY it would be a good choice. Those guys work hard and wear. It was a fix to several nagging and one stranding faults. 
 

recommend both. 

[Darryl&Rita]

If you had to repair that many wire chafes and damage, there's a very good chance the voltage doubler is unhappy. Looking like time to drop some coin.

[Jim Hicks]

Well, yesterday was the big day for Footloose.  Got in a new P.I.M, new wiring harness, and reman XY.  I put everything in yesterday morning.  Everything went in easily enough.  Once complete I made up all of the battery connections and went through the calibration procedure in the manual.

Waited the designated amount of time, and no start.  The starter wouldn’t roll.  Hmmmmm.  Pull the active codes.  Got code 71.  Well I am feeling good about that, as I couldn’t get any codes before this all started.  I go to the T/S guide and start chasing code 71. Says it’s either a bad PIM or bad XY.  Hmmmm.  Follow the procedure to verify the PIM and the PIM passes the test with flying colors.  Next step, pull the xy and verify no issues.  Hmmm.  Ok.  I disconnect  power again, remove and inspect.  All is well.  The worms turn freely,etc.  (The motor on the longitudinal axis of the truck is warm to the touch.).  I say what the hell, let me try my old XY to ensure I didn’t jack the wiring up. I put in the old XY and reconnect power.  All is well, it goes through the calibration fine, shift indicator shows “N” rather than the ”-“ I was seeing with the REMAN, truck starts, shifts, etc.  I turn off the Truck and feel the motors on the old XY and they are both cool to the touch.  So I scratch my head and debate if possibly the dog was out of alignment on the Reman.  Pull the power, pull the old XY, and set the two shifters side by side on the table.  (And yes, they are the same model and same part #). Once I have them setting there I rotate the worms on the X and the Y of the Reman to get the identical dog placement and alignment on it as on my old XY.  Install the Reman, power it up. I run the Calibration.  Wait the allotted time.  Try to start the truck.  Same indications, the gear position reflects “-“ and the starter wont roll.  Feel both motors on the XY and the same motor is hot again.  So at the ends of the day I put the old XY in and moved the truck around the shop so I could do more exhaust work.  I am convinced the motor on the Reman XY is weak, shorted, or bad.  I am working with the E-bay seller of the Reman for a refund and in the market for another Reman XY.  Any Ideas?  Am I missing anything?  Thanks guys. Jim

[rickeieio]

All that, and no bold print, no expletives all in caps?  You sir, are a patient man.  I can find no fault in your procedures.

[Darryl&Rita]

I nominate Jim for the position of AutoShift expert. Can I have a second.

[HERO Maker]

I 2nd that!  Way to go Jim!

[Darryl&Rita]

40 minutes ago, HERO Maker said:

I 2nd that!  Way to go Jim!

Thank you, Rocky. Motion passed. Congratulations, Jim.

[billr]

Good job Jim the new A/S expert! 
 

Go to Volvo for the Reman XY. 

[Jim Hicks]

I want to close the loop on this topic.  I also want to offer my sincere thanks to Bill, Rocky, Rick, Darryl, Parrformance, and GreenPete for the dialog and advice.    So when I last left you guys I had concluded that my “EBay XY” I had procured was suspect.  Did a little research and based on the reman paint scheme and associated documentation determined that the reman was remanufactured by Weller.  Well now....we have a Weller distributor here in Houston and I got to thinking.....  Did some more research and found that there are those that view Weller’s remains to be “Less than Ideal” and that they show a “High failure rate”.   Hmmmmm, well that’s good to know.  I could always  go up there and plead my case for a replacement.  In the back of my head I can see Bill slowly shaking his head in disapproval. Eventually I bite the bullet and take Bills advice.  I get my money back from EBay and start shopping for an “Eaton Fuller” reman.  I find what I need and four short days later its delivered by a masked man in a FedEx truck claiming it is “Fragile and Heavy”, please sign here!  Well I am like a kid in a candy store.  I take my fragile cargo to my shop and open my package.  Looks Great!  Pull out the software kit with the gasket, a little dielectric grease pack and three, uh I mean one detent spring.  What?  Inventory list says I get three detent springs.  Hmmmmm.  Look again.  Detent pack has QC76 inventory stamp on it.  Well now,  look and look and I only have one new spring.  I debate reusing the old detent springs that have 650,000 Milles on them.  I also ponder if QC76 sleeps well at night.  After all its only a spring right?  Grrrrrrrrr.  

I make the hike up to the house, call my provider and explain the dilemma.  Young lady takes notes and agrees to call me back.  Meanwhile I keep thinking what can a few old springs hurt, right?  Then I ponder how much fun it is to remove the seats, doghouse, floor, and how much I love the Houston humidity.  Common sense prevails, I will wait on the young lady.  I refocus my efforts on the exhaust and spend the day installing my new exhaust.  Young lady never returns my call, and I go to my 9-5 on Monday.  She calls me Monday and tells me, “I have good news for you Mr. Hicks!”  uhhh, ok?  “Yes sir, I have discussed your situation with our technical department, and they agree with you, you should have three springs!”  For some reason, I found this amusing rather than frustrating, so I play along.  “That’s great, what do we do now?”  “Well sir, since we do not have any software kits in stock, we would like to offer you a refund equivalent to the cost of the software kit”.  Well now,  I was afraid of that.  I take the refund and start shopping for a kit.  I had already called the local Volvo dealer in Houston on Saturday.  Gent looks the part up, advises me, that “Yessir, that is $39.99 and we don’t stock it.  As a matter of fact we have “NEVER” sold one of those here at Houston Volvo.  What?  Never?  “No sir, NEVER”. If Iwere you I would call Chalks or Weller, they are both local and may have it.  Since it was Saturday, I wait until Monday when they both open.  After the young lady and I talked Monday I call Chalks.  They are, after all an authorized Eaton Fuller Reman shop, and only a few miles from my work.  Chalks guy tells me, “No luck he needs to order from the factory.”   I get one but it has to come from the factory.  (Fast Forward a week......). New software kit shows up.  I open it up and am happy to see the QC inspector was someone other than 76.  (No offense 76, but you cost me a week).

Long story short, I put her all back together and calibrate the XY, everything looks good.  REAL GOOD.  So now here is my dilemma,  Do I just hop on the milk crate with the floor pan removed and take her for a test spin?  Do I drag the trailer, so I have a load?  Or do I put the entire shooting match together first.  When I was troubleshooting in Dallas, I did the milk crate test drive and convinced myself it was good before putting all of the interference back in.  (We all know how that ended).  Being a gambler, I said lets put her together and give her a spin.  So I put the floor, doghouse, seats, etc in.  Everything!  Now at least on my test drive I have a seatbelt.  So last week after work about dusk, I grab my cell phone, tell the wife, If I am not beck in two hours, take 35 to Angleton looking for me, I am going for a spin.   Off I go.  I navigate through the grand metropolis of Alvin, no issues.  Get on 35 and set cruise to 60.  No issues.  Play with cruise up and down to 70.  No issues, all is well.  An hour later I make it home and she is shifting fine.  

Next task, test her under load.  That brings me to today.  This weekend we attempted to make the Journey to Texas hill country.  With the Smart loaded and dragging the 20K trailer we ease the beast out of the shop.  Two very large and very excited dogs and one apprehensive wife in the cab and off we go.  After all, we are approaching 100 degrees days down here in South Texas, what could possibly go wrong?We navigate Houston Traffic, get onto the beltway, swing around the south side and make our way to the Energy Corridor on I-10.  On I-10 I am sharing 8 lanes westbound with oh so many of my dear Housltonians and we are merging, shifting, braking, navigating, so far so good.  We blow through Katy, and head west young man!  A few hours later as we approach San Antonio, we meander North into the Texas Hill country.  Red lights, merging traffic, windy two lane hill country highways.  Constantly shifting and engine braking to maintain safe speeds.  Shortly after that we arrive in Canyon Lake.  Now folks, let me tell you that is a test drive.  Our “Attempt” to make a test drive to Texas Hill country was successful.  She shifted like butter and ran smooth all the way.  I am confident we are back to 100%.  With the Reman XY (and three new detent springs :))., the OEM replacement harness and the new OEM PIM, this thing is rock solid.  Thanks all!

[sclord2002]

Hooray, Jim !  It feels good to wrestle a problem into submission, doesn't it ?   Hope you and Robin are doing well.  Be safe,  Charlie Lord

[rickeieio]

2 hours ago, Jim Hicks said:

As a matter of fact we have “NEVER” sold one of those here at Houston Volvo.  What?  Never?  “No sir, NEVER”.

Another Happy Ending.  Gotta love it.

I'll tell ya though, I had the same experience with a John dealer.  I called for a part, which I stocked on the farm, and the dealer didn't have it, said he never sold one.  Duh, then where did I buy this one?  Seems special order parts never went into stock, they just put it aside with my name on it.  So it never showed as being in stock and so never sold.  BS........

[JPL]

Jim   Great job! Now when are you coming East?    Pat

 

 

The Old Sailor