Drones

[NamMedevac 70]

20 minutes ago, agesilaus said:

Yeah but do not fly them over nps lands w/o a drone pilot license and permission

Roger That and a big 10-4.  Captain Happy

[mptjelgin]

3 hours ago, agesilaus said:

Yeah but do not fly them over nps lands w/o a drone pilot license and permission

The current FAA rules for drones are getting more restrictive all of the time.  I just renewed my registration and they are now "requiring" a knowledge test for the renewal, but they haven't actually produced the test. Interesting Catch-22. 

Some of the current regulations on recreational drone usage:

1. Fly your drone at or below 400 feet above the ground when in uncontrolled (Class G) airspace.
2. Obtain authorization before flying in controlled airspace (Class B, C, D, and E). You can obtain authorization in three ways:
   1. LAANC
   2. DroneZone
   3. A written agreement with the FAA for fixed flying sites. For more information about fixed flying sites, contact us at UAShelp@faa.gov.

   NOTE: Flying drones in certain airspace is not allowed. Classes of airspace and flying restrictions can be found on our B4UFLY app.

3. Keep your drone within your visual line of sight, or within the visual line-of-sight of a visual observer who is co-located (physically next to) and in direct communication with you.

[Kirk W]

17 minutes ago, mptjelgin said:

The current FAA rules for drones are getting more restrictive all of the time. 

Thanks for the update! I have a drone on my Christmas list. 

The 9 Best Drones You Can Buy

[mptjelgin]

25 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

Thanks for the update! I have a drone on my Christmas list. 

The 9 Best Drones You Can Buy

I hope that Santa is good to you!

[justRich]

I was just looking at video drones today.
They're pretty reasonable in price considering that a top line video drone is $3000.++++
The problem is, the video will require desk time to process.  Not a problem if you're simply looking for boondocking sites.
Production is another matter.  I sit too much.  So, no go for me.

For video quality, performance features and price, I like this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V3CLLCV/?coliid=I1OZJZ92F2SKUS&colid=23ER4W0JQOBN3&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

FAA requirements were not a big deal and probably still are not.  
For information on that issue, see an RC flying site.

 

 

[agesilaus]

Well from this weeks RVNews:

Drone hobbyist fined $182,000 by FAA for illegal flying

A Philadelphia drone hobbyist has been fined $182,000 by the FAA for flying his drones illegally. The violations were related to his videos that were live-streamed to YouTube from December 2019 to this past August. Sound like Big Brother jumping on a little guy? Well, probably not. But you decide.

[mptjelgin]

The idea that FAA requirements are not a big deal may be hazardous to your pocketbook.  With Amazon and others approved to enter the low-altitude airspace with package delivery drones, they want it controlled and preferably cleared for them. This puts the hobbyists at a real disadvantage. 

FAA has closed the comment period on the proposed regulations regarding Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS), and if they go forward as written things are going to change a great deal.  The main gotcha is that new aircraft will be required to have transponders that let other aircraft and the FAA know where they are at all times. These aircraft are to be equipped with lockouts that prevent flight unless the system is up and transmitting, and they will have geofencing that keeps them out of restricted areas and within a certain distance of the pilot. 

No word yet as to whether this technology will have to be retrofitted onto existing aircraft or not. There may be some relief if you are flying at an FAA approved flying site (think RC club), but the days of just flying your drone around and looking "over there" are coming to an end. As the rules currently stand, it is illegal to even fly your UAS beyond your direct line of sight. So how are you going to (legally) scope out boondocking sites?

Right now the status reminds me of the CB radio days back in the mid-70's.  Some folks knew that they were required to have a license and to follow certain protocols, but the rules were widely ignored. Ultimately the regulators threw up their hands and changed the rules. Hobbyists are hoping that the same thing happens here, but the airspaces are getting crowded and some big players (Amazon, UPS, etc.) want it regulated and reserved.

Remains to be seen how it will all shake out. But by next year we should have a pretty good idea. I know more than a few hard-core RC people that are leaving the hobby because of the increasingly strict regulations. 

[TXiceman]

21 hours ago, agesilaus said:

Yeah but do not fly them over nps lands w/o a drone pilot license and permission

We were told, even with a drone pilot license, you cannot fly over Federal lands unless you have written permission from the specific park.  And they are not issuing permission except for specific use like a TV station to review an area for purpose of putting on the news.

I don't see what the problem with getting a license and following usage rules.  I have to be licensed to use my amateur radios.  They have to have rules and regulations to control the few that will not do right and cause harm.

Ken

[mptjelgin]

5 minutes ago, TXiceman said:

I have to be licensed to use my amateur radios.  They have to have rules and regulations to control the few that will not do right and cause harm.

Ken

That is another interesting point.  FPV drones (the kind that transmit an image back to goggles or a display) use radio transmitters.  All but the lowest powered of these transmitters require the pilot to hold an FCC Technician level license. Very few people flying FPV drones are even aware of the requirement. 

Why Do You Need a Ham Radio License for Flying FPV Drones?

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, agesilaus said:

Sound like Big Brother jumping on a little guy?

Quote

The story goes that in early November, a Philadelphia man named Mikey, who flies a drone without a professional license, received 123 notices of infractions from the FAA, $1,500 for each one. The total amount in civil penalties added up to $182,004. The violations were related to drone videos he live-streamed on YouTube from December 2019 to this past August.

It seems pretty clear that he had plenty of opportunity to resolve the problem. It is no different than ignoring traffic tickets, parking tickets, zoning violations, or a host of other regulations established to keep those around you safe and to protect their rights. Is it big brother picking on us to be required to have a license to drive a car or fly an airplane?

[agesilaus]

No sympathy for the guy here, apparently he claims "he knew nothing!" About any regualtions.

The point to be made, tho, is this: the FAA apparently is looking for 'examples to encourage the others', to learn about the regs. Those vloggers Nate and Kara (?) got a FAA warning as an early shot across the bows for the community. That time seems to be over and they have switched to the big hammer.

[NamMedevac 70]

Good news for me as i still have my FCC license issued to me in the early 60s along with a Coast guard ID issued at same time with no expiration date along with a military Disabled Vet ID with no expiration date.  My FAA Advanced Airline Transport Pilots and flight Instructors licenses do not expire as long as I have a current FAA medical certificate showing me fit for flying. I realize of course I may need a special Drone pilot license to fly these little devils but I will look into that when convenient.  Now all I need is a nifty little drone. 

As wide open BLM lands are not Federal Parks I assume legal to fly a drone in these remote areas no one visits but me.  I know this as I have been there many times and spent days and nights without seeing a soul and surveying the desert with my binoculars.  These are vast flat non scenic areas and not even off roaders or RVers visit often.  Time to visit Amazon. Be happy everyone from Captain Happy.

Edited December 6, 2020 by NamMedevac 70

[mptjelgin]

Having a Pilot's license will give you a leg up on getting a Part 107 certification if you decide to pursue commercial use of a drone, but it doesn't relieve you of any of the rules regarding recreational use. 

You are still restricted (by law anyway) to flying only within Line-of-Sight, max altitude of 400', and making certain that you are complying with the various airspace restrictions, TFR's, etc. And, expect upcoming rules to add additional requirements like remote ID. 

That being said, the likelihood of enforcement out in the middle of nowhere is slim to none, but the laws still apply...

[NamMedevac 70]

A few years ago I was in the pilot lounge at the South Lake Tahoe Airport and one of the private pilots was flying a small drone around inside the lounge.  This was the first drone I ever saw and now I assume he was breaking the law?????.  It was very annoying and I left immediately.  Sounded like a swarm of angry bees.

[mptjelgin]

5 minutes ago, NamMedevac 70 said:

A few years ago I was in the pilot lounge at the South Lake Tahoe Airport and one of the private pilots was flying a small drone around inside the lounge.  This was the first drone I ever saw and now I assume he was breaking the law?????.  It was very annoying and I left immediately.  Sounded like a swarm of angry bees.

You can fly anything you want inside!! FAA doesn't have authority there, yet...

Those tiny little drones are pretty fun in the house. 

[NamMedevac 70]

Deleted double post

Edited December 7, 2020 by NamMedevac 70

[justRich]

FPV drones (First Person View):  Using cell phone technology - with this type of drone you plug your cell phone into the controller to see where "you're" going.
This may be a way around the rules governing radio transmission - otherwise, we'd all need a permit to operate a cell phone.

 

[mptjelgin]

The primary reason that you don't need a license for your cell phone is that it is FCC Part 15 compliant. 

Very few of the FPV transmitters in hobbyist grade drones are FCC Part 15 compliant, which means that you need the license if they transmit above a very low power level, and most do.  Some of the higher end DJI camera drones do have FCC Part 15 compliant transmitters which relieves you of this requirement.  

As far as FPV goes, the frequencies used used are totally different than your cell phone. Most FPV is on the 5.8 GHz frequency, while cell phones are primarily using 850/900/1,800/1,900 MHz. So while you may be able to use a cell phone as a display through the controller, most serious FPV enthusiasts are utilizing goggles or dedicated displays that receive directly on the 5.8 GHz band. 

The way that most FPV hobbyists are getting around the FCC rules governing radio transmission is by not being aware of, or simply ignoring them. 

 

[podwerkz]

Most commercial drones (the ones we buy off the shelf or online) these days operate on the ISM bands, typically 2.4ghz and 5.8ghz...no license needed...as long as power limitations are adhered to.

The same bands used for wifi and bluetooth and oh yeah...microwave ovens!

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by podwerkz

[mptjelgin]

2 hours ago, podwerkz said:

Most commercial drones (the ones we buy off the shelf or online) these days operate on the ISM bands, typically 2.4ghz and 5.8ghz...no license needed...as long as power limitations are adhered to.

 

Not completely accurate. See the link that I posted above. Or here is another if you don't want to scroll up:

FCC License Required for FPV?

Since most commercial drones are using transmitters that are not FCC Part 15 compliant, an FCC license is required for the video transmitters carried on the hobby drones themselves. 

Here is some text from the manual of a fairly small Horizon Hobby drone (Torrent 110): If you are operating this product in North America, you are required to have an Amateur Radio (HAM) license. Visit www.arl.org for more information. 

The reason that you don't need a radio license for your 2.4ghz RC controller (Spektrum, Futaba, etc.) is that most of them are FCC Part 15 compliant.

HobbyKing learned what happens if you continue to sell non-compliant RC transmitters in the USA.  They were fined $2.8 million (don't know the final disposition) for continuing to market and sell non-compliant transmitters. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by mptjelgin
Added text from drone manual

[podwerkz]

Yes, completely accurate. I said MOST. There are a subset of primarily FPV drones, especially the ATV transmitters (for analog video) that some are (or were) supplied with, that make an amateur license necessary. But this tiny subset of drones on the market does not qualify as 'most'.

The majority of this thread deals with camera drones for photography or spotting things from the air....not racing drones using FPV goggles...which is a distinct (and seperate) segment of the hobby. My statement was directed to the potential buyer who will be buying a typical high quality, GPS equipped drone, for shooting video...they wont need to worry about an FCC license if that drone is on the ISM bands.

By 'most' I mean the vast majority of camera drones that most of us buy for... you know...shooting pictures and video. And these typically use digital control and video signals on the ISM bands.

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by podwerkz

[homelesshartshorns]

On 12/3/2019 at 6:43 AM, SWharton said:

Now that I have stirred everyone up over drones I don't think I will have Santa bring him one. Mainly because of the line of site restriction.

IMO in regard to any topic, if you have to have permission there are a lot of things your going to miss out on!