Magnum vs Victron inverters

[GlennWest]

On my full house battery system I'm building, guestion about these inverters. I had pretty much decided on Magnum but Victron Multi 5000 looks promising. I will, if Victron, run 2 with them powering each leg separately. If Magnum, they are hot L2 and L1, run in parrell. I have option with Magnum of adding a third of needed. If I go with Victron, do I loose that option? Do I need to parrell in pairs and run 4? 

[oldjohnt]

Glenn, I still want to camp next to you anytime I'm boondocking, you have plenty of power for us BOTH lol

I don't have the specs or any hard educated opinions to your question, but will ask: You don't require any pure 240 Volts do you like some sort of an electric dryer etc ??? I ask because I don't know (too lazy to look it up lol) if that Magnum has two legs of 120 that are 180 out of phase like the utility ????  IE 120/240 Single Phase Three Wire...……. I've seen RV parks that were NOT 240 L1 to L2,,,,,,,,I have seen parks that used 208Y 120 Volt Three Phase Four Wire. I don't see you needing a third Magnum UNLESS I PARK NEXT TO YOU LOL  One set up I have seen is two Victron 3000 Watt Inverters one for each leg on a 50 Amp RV which seems to satisfy all but maybe an extreme energy hog rig... 

Hopefully the Magnum and Victron users with actual experience can answer your question, you're getting above my pay grade lol

 Best wishes Happy Thanksgiving

John T   Live dry camped in the Natl Forest just West of New Waverly Texas

[hemsteadc]

I have a 48v Outback IC.  Wonderful product.  Don't know about parlell

Edited November 24, 2019 by hemsteadc

[DesertMiner]

Glenn please go to the Victron Website and read all about the great things the various inverter /chargers can do. Many options to run parallel, split phase, and even 3 phase if needed. You need to really do your research and make the best decision for your needs and planned setup. You may be a bit limited in your selections based on your plan to go 48vdc. Here is one option that may work for you. 

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Quattro-3-10kVA-120V-EN.pdf

 

[GlennWest]

Quatto is very pricy compared to Magnum. I was looking at the multi plus units. They are same or less priced. 

[jcussen]

I went with the Magnum 4448 for my S&B system. Wanted a Victron, but appears they are either 120 or 240 volt only. I needed 240 for my car, but needed 120 volt as well, appears the Magnum can supply both from same inverter but at a reduced output when using both. 

[GlennWest]

I will need 2 units either way. Get 10k with Victron and 8800 with Magnum. But if need more that is my question. Can I parrell 2 multiplus units and not the third?  Hoped someone on here knows that

[jcussen]

1 hour ago, GlennWest said:

I will need 2 units either way. Get 10k with Victron and 8800 with Magnum. But if need more that is my question. Can I parrell 2 multiplus units and not the third?  Hoped someone on here knows that

So, you are not running any 240 volt equipment? Maybe I am wrong but remember about something about running mini-splits.

Edited November 25, 2019 by jcussen

[GlennWest]

I am running a mni split at 220v but that was simple with both legs hot, just change breaker. All i need to do is supply both legs of breaker box. The PAE Magnums have two hot legs for this purpose. Victron don't, well sorta. They do have a second hot leg but only with shore power. I just parrell the Magnums and two hot legs. Victron have to run two units, one to each leg. No parrelling. But if add a third, can i parrell two Multi plus units and not the third? I may never need to do this but the Victron euipment is tempting. If this not possible I will stay with Magnum. But thinking more on this, that would be an unbalanced system. So will not be able to use Victrons. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by GlennWest

[jcussen]

A 120 volt inverter will only supply 120 volts period. Will supply both legs in your breaker box, but still only 120 volts. 50 amp SP is 240 volts with 120 to neutral on each leg. This will give you 240 across hot legs for your mini splits. If i were wiring a 48 volt system, would go with separate 240 volt inverters and separate 120 volt inverters with separate panels. Maybe a little more work, but a lot easier to understand.  I don't think any 220 volt Victons give you the option of 110 volt output as well on battery power.  Maybe John T. knows, but don't think you can take two 120 volt inverters and expect to get 220 volts out of them.  Keep talking to Ralph in Pearland, he has good handle on this. 

[ALLOY]

Victron requires 2 inverters one each for L1 and L2. It is done allot. I would talk to Victron.

Price is an important factor as is intergrating the componets together which I think Victron is better at.

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/122/multiplus-inverters-setup-in-split-phase-to-match.html

 

 

[DesertMiner]

You can use 2 Victrons in a “split phase” configuration to get 240. And you would need to add in multiples of (2) if you needed to parallel inverters to get more available power. I think want is missing is if using a 48vdc battery bank you are shut out from using a Multi because they are not available in a 48vdc version. I like the idea of using a dedicated 48vdc inverter just to power the 240 mini split and a 48 vdc 120vac to power everything else.

Edited November 25, 2019 by DesertMiner

[jcussen]

Agree with DesertMiner, I am going with one Magnum inverter for both 120 and 240, but with the kind of loads you are looking at, lot simpler to go with big 240 volt inverter and seperate big 120 volt inverter, with the added benefit of two charging sources, for faster recharging when on gen or sp.

Edited November 25, 2019 by jcussen

[GlennWest]

Ok Victron has a 48/5000 lists as 220v 50 mhz. Noted show can be programmed for 110v 60 mhz. Multiplus. That the one I was considering. https://www.invertersupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4603

Edited November 25, 2019 by GlennWest

[oldjohnt]

13 hours ago, GlennWest said:

I am running a mni split at 220v but that was simple with both legs hot, just change breaker

Glenn, again (Im sure you already know this) two sources (be they inverters or gensets) of 120 VAC DOES NOT MEAN they are 180 out of phase with each other which is how the Utility provides 120/240 Single Phase Three Wire service using a 240 Volt L1 to L2 transformer with the center tapped !!! Just because you were to use a two pole breaker DOES NOT INSURE you get 240 VAC Line to Line to feed a 240 Mini Split.    To get BOTH 120 and 240 (for the mini split)  you EITHER need an Inverter that has 120/240 Single Phase Three Wire output orrrrrrrrr two Inverters that are synced and phase controlled so A is 180 out from B ??????? Is such made???? NO IDEA NO OPINION

 NOTE I have NOT studied Magnum or Victron data or specs and have no idea of their output so cant answer your specific need but this is why above I ASKED IF YOU NEEDED 240 VOLTS. Two 120 Volt Inverters DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN you will get 240 across their two individual 120 volt lines PROBABLY NOT unless they are properly configured synced and phased that way with each other. IE POSSIBLE IF VICTRON OR MAGNUM have that option !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOTE you can buy a 120 in 240 out step up transformer to provide 240 to the mini split off ONE of the Inverters

NOTE if you can buy a 240 Volt ONLY Inverter and use 240 to 120 step down transformers that can work

HOWEVER BEST AND MY CHOICE is if you can buy a 120/240 Single Phase Three Wire Inverter you got it made 

Sorry I have no Magnum or Victron specs or data here so I can ONLY offer the above AKS MAGNUM OR VICTRON if you can get 120 and 240 out ?????????????  I just don't know grrrrrrrrrrr

John T

[GlennWest]

So you are saying, two inverters run to separate legs, L1 & L2, will not give me 230v when using the proper breaker which engiages each leg? Don't see how 110 + 110 doesn't equal 220. Know this has been suggested on multiple times.  

[Darryl&Rita]

He's saying that there's no guarantee. I'm sure both manufacturers offer inverters to do it, but I'd bet mucho dinero that not all the inverters in their inventory will do it. You really need to get on each manufacturer's help forums, or contact them directly, to get the truth. 

[hamrs_62]

23 minutes ago, GlennWest said:

So you are saying, two inverters run to separate legs, L1 & L2, will not give me 230v when using the proper breaker which engiages each leg? Don't see how 110 + 110 doesn't equal 220. Know this has been suggested on multiple times.  

if it is on the same phase it will not be 220, if it is two phases then it will be 220, on a single phase panel, 

[hamrs_62]

I know it sounds stupid, I would have called it a two phase panel, and call it a three phase panel when dealing with three phase, but I didn't write the books

 

[hemsteadc]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=parallel+inverters

Youtube, paralellogram inverters

Edited November 25, 2019 by hemsteadc

[jcussen]

This one will give what you need, but bear in mind total output is 4400 watts for combined load. But up to 4 can be paralleled with a router. But still think separate 240 and 120 volt inverters would be easier.

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by jcussen

[GlennWest]

1 hour ago, jcussen said:

This one will give what you need, but bear in mind total output is 4400 watts for combined load. But up to 4 can be paralleled with a router. But still think separate 240 and 120 volt inverters would be easier.

 

Didn't show up what you were posting about. Think you were referring to the Hybrid Magnum

[oldjohnt]

4 hours ago, GlennWest said:

So you are saying, two inverters run to separate legs, L1 & L2, will not give me 230v when using the proper breaker which engiages each leg? Don't see how 110 + 110 doesn't equal 220.

That's right Glenn, that's what I'm saying. If Inverter A is 120 Line to Neutral and Inverter B is 120 Line to Neutral and they are wired together and in phase

GET THIS                                 L1 to L2   EQUALS ZERO               NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT 240

I have seen parks miswired that indeed provided two legs of 120 Line to Neutral  BUTTTTTTTTT a volt meter read ZERO L1 to L2.

In true 120/240 Single Phase Three Wire service like the Utility or a Genset (or an Inverter for that matter) might be configured and provide its 120 L1 to Neutral,,,,,,,,,,,,,120 L2 to Neutral,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,240 L1 to L2...…..That's because L1 and L2 are 180 out of phase. When L1 is + 120 L2 is - 120 therefore its 240 L1 to L2.

NOTE all I'm saying is you CAN NOT just buy any old 120 volt Inverter and another 120 volt Inverter and unless they are phased and synchronized together for that purpose YOURE NOT GONNA NECESSARILY GET 240 L1 TO L2 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's NOT to say you cant buy a true 120/240 Volt Single Phase Three Wire Inverter (same as a Genset or the Utility) to get BOTH 120 and 240 orrrrrrrrrrrr you cant buy two units that can be synced and phased properly to do what you want. Check with Victron and Magnum NOT what someone including myself may guess or think...……..  

FYI a typical residence (and many RV parks) uses what's correctly referred to in the trade and among electricians and us electrical engineers as 120/240 Volt Single Phase Three Wire where its 120 L1 or L2 to Neutral and 240 L1 to L2...……...Many industrial and commercial facilities use EITHER 208 Y 120 Volt Three Phase Four Wire,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or,,,,,,,,,,,,,,120/240 Volt Three Phase Four Wire Hot Leg Delta...………...

Hope this helps and doesn't confuse you Glennn LOL, what you need can be done just be sure you buy the correct equipment if you need BOTH 120 and 240...because 120 + 120 may equal ZERO and NOT 240. This is AC  NOTTTTTTTTTTTT DC

Happy Thanksgiving

John T Again longgggggggggg retired power distribution design engineer and rusty so Nooooooo warranty consult Magnum and Victron

 

[jcussen]

2 hours ago, GlennWest said:

Didn't show up what you were posting about. Think you were referring to the Hybrid Magnum

This one. https://www.solaris-shop.com/magnum-ms4448pae-4400w-battery-inverter/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k98geXy5k-E

 

[GlennWest]

Yes, very aware of that unit. That is what I am debating about. Likely need 3 of them. Victron is 5000 watts so might get by with two of them. Several on here wire two inverters to separate legs. You telling me that will not supply 220.