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Snow and Turning Radii


ALLOY

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Wasn't sure if this should go in the MDT or HDT so it ended up here.

I'm 70% sure that we'll be up-grading to a F450 but before making a decision I thought I find out more about MDT and HDT.  Both are appealing but may not fit our needs.  

We are out 12 months a year with 3-4 trips/year on snow/ice covered roads. Once we get off the highway if there is a fresh snow fall we will tow (under a mile) through 6"-12" of snow. The wheel load form the weight of the 5th makes for amazing traction. Once at the site we used the truck to run around. 

A F450 with the a 180" WB is 51' curb to curb and 53' wall to wall...or so they say.  I did a search here and online but couldn't find any numbers on the curb to curb and wall to wall turning radii of MDT/ HDT.  Can someone point me in the right direction?

The 4x4 P4XL Sports Chassis is a very nice truck but the price of a F450 is much more appealing.

Are there any production 4x4 HDT?

Thanks You

 

 

 

 

2011 Cameo 34SB3

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No production HDT's that I know of.  On a true "Semi" that has tandem rear axles, with the axle interlock and rear differential lockers, they are capable trucks.  Log companies drag 80000lbs thru foot deep mud regularly.  But..... you are taking a heavy truck thru snow..... me personally, I would find the 450 and outfit it appropriately.

Jim's Adventures

Old Spacecraft.... Who knows whats next

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It's probably going to be hard to beat 4x4 traction in bad weather conditions and if that's a big requirement that may be a huge factor. 

As for your WB questions my Volvo 610 is 184" WB singled short. I don't know the curb to curb or wall to wall measurements for a u-turn, but I'd like to figure that out because it's very impressive for sure. I can tell you that the 50" wheel cut on the Volvo's is so impressive and I know this Volvo 610 turns way better than my old 98.5 Dodge Ram Cummins 2500 extended cab long bed could ever dream about. U-turns were something I tried to avoid in that truck. In the Volvo I was able to do a u-turn on a 4 lane divided highway from a dedicted turn lane easily within the 2 lanes available. In my old 3/4 ton truck, I would have been way up over the curb past the 2nd lane if I even attempted it. 

As mentioned above a tandem axle truck with an interlock gives you some better options for rear traction, but the engine and front axle are so heavy on these trucks, I think that counteracts some of the rear traction. If I knew I had to regularly travel in compromised traction conditions both towing and not towing, I do think 4x4 would be a big part of that decision too. 

Dan (Class of 2017) - 2012 Ram 3500 & 2005 Alpenlite Valhalla 29RK
Contact me at rvsolarconsulting.com or Two Wheel Ramblin

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I had a 2011 F350 CC LB DW and now have a 2015 Freightliner M2-106 ( Class 5 truck) Sport Chassis. The M2 has a tight turning radius with a 187 inch wheel base. I don't know the turning radius is but do know I can now make U turns that the F350 required me to back a bit to complete the turn.

Clay

Clay & Marcie Too old to play in the snow

Diesel pusher and previously 2 FW and small Class C

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Appreciated the input.

The turning radius of the F450 is close to the same as a regular cab. Better than a F350 by 5'- 7'. 

An easy turn for the F350 in the summer becomes a tight squeeze in the winter once the snow start to pile up. 

 

 

 

 

2011 Cameo 34SB3

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J-T, the reason you don't see any published data on the turning radius of a HDT is that each one is different, it will depend on the make of the truck, the wheelbase, whether tandem rears or single, tire size and wheel cut. The manufacturer can send you that info if you give them the VIN of the truck (assuming it hasn't been modified) or your local dealer should be able to do that.

You can get a Freightliner MDT (M2 class) in a 4WD from the factory but you had better win the lottery or be independently wealthy to afford one.

As far as driving in snow with your fifth wheel, I don't plan on doing it so no help from me. The last snow we had in this area, I took my leaf blower out and blew the driveway clear of snow.

2023 Thor Magnitude XG32

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On 5/1/2017 at 0:07 PM, GeorgiaHybrid said:

J-T, the reason you don't see any published data on the turning radius of a HDT is that each one is different, it will depend on the make of the truck, the wheelbase, whether tandem rears or single, tire size and wheel cut. The manufacturer can send you that info if you give them the VIN of the truck (assuming it hasn't been modified) or your local dealer should be able to do that.

You can get a Freightliner MDT (M2 class) in a 4WD from the factory but you had better win the lottery or be independently wealthy to afford one.

As far as driving in snow with your fifth wheel, I don't plan on doing it so no help from me. The last snow we had in this area, I took my leaf blower out and blew the driveway clear of snow.

I received the pricing an a Freighter 4x4 MDT today. It is $40,000 more than a loaded F450 KR CC DRW . The extra carrying capacity of a MDT / HDT would be great to have but once either is bob tailed the lack of any wheel loading would be an issue in the snow.

2011 Cameo 34SB3

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Here is a snapshot of a spreadsheet I built  The old adage "it depends" applies.  Tandems will affect it as will drive axle weight.  Sorry for the double attachment.

590b07e40b37c_TurningRadius.PNG.e438cbe486bca5042f767fcc6132c30d.PNG

590b07e40b37c_TurningRadius.PNG.e438cbe486bca5042f767fcc6132c30d.PNG

Turning Radius.PNG

"There are No Experts, Do the Math!"

2014 Freightliner Cascadia DD16 600hp  1850ft-lb  18spd  3.31  260"wb
SpaceCraft S-470
SKP #131740

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On 5/4/2017 at 0:49 AM, J-T said:

I received the pricing an a Freighter 4x4 MDT today. It is $40,000 more than a loaded F450 KR CC DRW . The extra carrying capacity of a MDT / HDT would be great to have but once either is bob tailed the lack of any wheel loading would be an issue in the snow.

A little apple and oranges here as the F450 is a Class 4 and the MDT is a either a Class 5 or 6. But the other hand if your comparing  F450 versus F550 than you have much more carrying capacity. The FL base truck is heavier due to frame and all components each heavier.

I carry a set of tire chains if I have to move in ice/snow, but prefer to watch it meld.

  Gross Vehicle Weight Rating Classes

Class 3—Greater than 4536 kg. to 6350 kg. (10,001–14,000 lbs.)

Class 4—Greater than 6350 kg. to 7257 kg. (14,001–16,000 lbs.)

Class 5—Greater than 7257 kg. to 8845 kg. (16,001–19,500 lbs.)

Class 6—Greater than 8845 kg. to 11793 kg. (19,501–26,000 lbs.)

Class 7—Greater than 11793 kg. to 14968 kg.(26,001–33,000 lbs.)

Class 8—Greater than 14968 kg. (33,001 lbs. and over)

 

Clay    FL M-2 106

Clay & Marcie Too old to play in the snow

Diesel pusher and previously 2 FW and small Class C

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On 5/4/2017 at 3:55 AM, NoDirectionHome said:

Here is a snapshot of a spreadsheet I built  The old adage "it depends" applies.  Tandems will affect it as will drive axle weight.  Sorry for the double attachment.

590b07e40b37c_TurningRadius.PNG.e438cbe486bca5042f767fcc6132c30d.PNG

 

Hi No Direction

That is a great chart. Thank you.....Where would one find the steer angles or is it different from truck to truck? 

J-T

 

2011 Cameo 34SB3

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Yes it's different for each based on the hubs, brakes, axle width, etc.  Use it as a guide.  Note the sensitivity as you change either the wheelbase or steer angle.  BTW, the steer angle can even be slightly different turning left or right because of the steering linkage.

"There are No Experts, Do the Math!"

2014 Freightliner Cascadia DD16 600hp  1850ft-lb  18spd  3.31  260"wb
SpaceCraft S-470
SKP #131740

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On 5/6/2017 at 6:30 AM, ms60ocb said:

A little apple and oranges here as the F450 is a Class 4 and the MDT is a either a Class 5 or 6. But the other hand if your comparing  F450 versus F550 than you have much more carrying capacity. The FL base truck is heavier due to frame and all components each heavier.

I carry a set of tire chains if I have to move in ice/snow, but prefer to watch it meld.

  Gross Vehicle Weight Rating Classes

Class 3—Greater than 4536 kg. to 6350 kg. (10,001–14,000 lbs.)

Class 4—Greater than 6350 kg. to 7257 kg. (14,001–16,000 lbs.)

Class 5—Greater than 7257 kg. to 8845 kg. (16,001–19,500 lbs.)

Class 6—Greater than 8845 kg. to 11793 kg. (19,501–26,000 lbs.)

Class 7—Greater than 11793 kg. to 14968 kg.(26,001–33,000 lbs.)

Class 8—Greater than 14968 kg. (33,001 lbs. and over)

 

Clay    FL M-2 106

Thank You

I looked at the F550.  The CC goes up but the power of the 6.7L drops so does the towing capacity. To complicate this the F450 has a heavier frame and brakes. The GRAW of the F450 is 900lbs less than the F350. 

This is one of the reason I'm moving the water and propane so pin weight stays at +/- 15%.  Propane at the front of the trailer was 110lbs (2-30lb) gross and we carried 180lb (2-50lb) gross in the truck.  I'm installing (and saving my back) a ASME (123lbs of propane) tank just ahead of the front axle.

http://www.flameking.com/products/rv/29-3-gallon-horizonta-asme-propane-vapor-cylinder.html

We have to convert the tank from a direct fill to an Auto (remote fill) Fill.

Still have to figure out the water tank(s). 

2011 Cameo 34SB3

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  • 2 weeks later...
On April 29, 2017 at 0:55 PM, J-T said:

Appreciated the input.

The turning radius of the F450 is close to the same as a regular cab. Better than a F350 by 5'- 7'. 

An easy turn for the F350 in the summer becomes a tight squeeze in the winter once the snow start to pile up. 

 

 

 

 

The 450 has the wide track front end which is 4" wider the the 2016 350 and has a lot better turning radius, but I believe for the 2017 and newer ford SD trucks they all come with the wide track front axle. Ford did put the wide track axle on the older 350's but it only came on a C.C long bed 4x4 with the heavy haul package. I think the package number is #535. 

 

2016 Western Star 5700xe (Pathfinder) DD15 555hp

w/12 speed automatic 3:05 diffs

2005 Newmar Mountain Aire 38RLPK

2 Great Danes

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On May 7, 2017 at 11:04 AM, J-T said:

Thank You

I looked at the F550.  The CC goes up but the power of the 6.7L drops so does the towing capacity. To complicate this the F450 has a heavier frame and brakes. The GRAW of the F450 is 900lbs less than the F350. 

This is one of the reason I'm moving the water and propane so pin weight stays at +/- 15%.  Propane at the front of the trailer was 110lbs (2-30lb) gross and we carried 180lb (2-50lb) gross in the truck.  I'm installing (and saving my back) a ASME (123lbs of propane) tank just ahead of the front axle.

http://www.flameking.com/products/rv/29-3-gallon-horizonta-asme-propane-vapor-cylinder.html

We have to convert the tank from a direct fill to an Auto (remote fill) Fill.

Still have to figure out the water tank(s). 

Look for a 350 with the max haul tow package #535 it puts the 450 suspension and front end under a 350. Max GVW is basically the same without being destuned in HP and Torque. 

2016 Western Star 5700xe (Pathfinder) DD15 555hp

w/12 speed automatic 3:05 diffs

2005 Newmar Mountain Aire 38RLPK

2 Great Danes

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On 5/20/2017 at 5:17 PM, Heavymetal said:

Look for a 350 with the max haul tow package #535 it puts the 450 suspension and front end under a 350. Max GVW is basically the same without being destuned in HP and Torque. 

Thank You

2011 Cameo 34SB3

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