Engine Battery Not Charging

[oldjohnt]

Keep dry Chuck, I'm sure you will have her purrin like a kitten in a creamery eventually lol Maybe you should look into building an Arc instead????

 

John T

[chuckbear]

Thanks John. We have been living on a boat for 25 years so no need for an Ark. Might need to put pontoons on the RV. Chuck

[Kirk W]

I don't often dusagree with John T, but there is something that has been overlooked. Before you look for a rise in voltage of the chassis battery it is critical that you know what the peak voltage from the converter. is. It is quite possible that you still have the origional converter, which was probably a Magnatek 6300 and those do not have a separate battery charging control but just supply one constant output voltage and thus will never raise the coach batteries above that point. In the one that I used to own, that peak voltage was 13.5V, meaning that it never was capable of fully charging any of the batteries, as the chassis alternator is. In addition, if yours has a blocking diode in the line as the one that I was working on had, that probably has a voltage drop across it of about .7V, meaning that your measured voltage of 12.8V if added to the .7V loss you will find that it matches the 6300 voltage. I suspect that your system is working as it did when new, unless the converter has been upgraded.

[oldjohnt]

Yo Kirk, FWIW I AGREE WITH YOUR DISAGREEMENT LOL

 

However in his first post he cited a battery voltage of 12.08 (NOT 12.8) to which I responded it was discharged. I stated somewhere (without checking actual numbers) something to the effect depending on charger and battery (no idea of either), if his charger were working and connected to his battery, a good battery would eventually rise to 13 to 14+ volts. Sure 12.08 is lowwwwwwwww but his topic concerned failure to charge the battery and hey, 12.08 volts can be reasonably considered NOT charged. If it was a typo and was actually 12.8 YOUR STORY ABOVE WORKS FOR ME

 

I do agree and it was my experience when a used RV dealer many of the old style noisy buzzing Converter/Chargers acted more like a constant voltage source producing in the range of 13.4 to 13.6 volts. If you subtract a 0.6 volt drop across a PN Junction Diode (if that's the case???) that leaves you around the 12.8 figure.

Also those old converter/chargers didn't set the world on fire as far as speed of charging and quality WHICH MAKES YOUR THEORY QUITE POSSIBLE!!!!!

 

Good catch maybe???????

 

John T Doin my best NOT being there and NO diagram Did I mention no warranty lol

[chuckbear]

The measured voltage was 12.08 for sure. I have an Iota 40 amp charger/converter that I use on a lot of boats and I may swap it for the one in the coach, which I'm sure is original. The Iota will do an automatic 14.5 volts "boost" once a week or any time it's shut down and restarted. Been using it on the boat for over 7 years and the batteries, which are considerable compared to the RV, are always happy. But if the charge is not being forwarded to the engine battery at all, and that seems the case, then something else is amiss. It may take some time, but I will get to the bottom of things. Chuck

[Jimalberta]

Chuck...I see over on IRV2 forums that Old Bounder got involved. He is the guy to listen to. He knows more about Bounders it seems than anyone else. Once you get his wiring diagrams you should be away to the races. I refered to the battery control center on my Eagle and it seems that Bounders use them too....it seems to me that it might not be switching over to charge your engine battery.

[chuckbear]

Yep, Old Bounder sent me the wiring diagrams and they include troubleshooting info. He also confirmed that the engine battery should be charging along with the coach batteries. As soon as the floods subside, I'll get to work on it. Chuck

[oldjohnt]

Chuck, you verify "The measured voltage was 12.08 for sure"

 

Then I stand by my very first post WHICH YOU ALREADY KNOW LOL that's very badly discharged . I'm sure you will track it down, let us know.

 

John T

[chuckbear]

So here's the latest and it's none of the above. While poking around today and checking voltage at various parts of the system, the coach batteries were reading 12.9 volts. The engine battery read 12.4. I checked the 9100 charger converter at the output connections and it did indeed read 12.9 volts. Not what I want for a charger in float mode. I have an extra Iota DLS 45 charger/converter that I have installed on a number of boats, including our own. This is an excellent smart charger and it can run the 12 volt system even if no batteries are connected. Once the Iota was connected and plugged in, the voltage on the coach batteries immediately went to 14.4 volts and the engine battery was reading 12.95 volts, much higher than I have ever seen it. So things have improved. I plan to check everything tomorrow and see just how much both batteries have charged overnight. We'll see. Chuck

[oldjohnt]

LATEST

 

That 14.4 volts is typical of a Smart Charger in the initial BULK charge mode (I've seen/heard 14.2 up to 14.8) so sounds good. I assume it will after time drop down to around 13.6 volts ABSORPTION then later 13.2 FLOAT if its a Smart 3/4 stage.

 

That 12.95 doesn't sound too bad on the engine battery as its above the 12.6 volts of a charged battery at rest once stabilized SO IT MUST BE CHARGING AT LEAST SOME AMPS.

 

I Cant comment on how its circuitry works such that it may have some sort of an independent isolated output for charging the engine battery ONLY, it may be more complex then simple parallel if the other batteries are at 14.4 but the engine battery is only at 12.95. Since the engine battery is different then I assume your coaches deep cycles (and how many)???? perhaps after time they will all come to the same voltage as Id eventually expect if the engine and coach batteries were simply in parallel (and no cable or relay or diode voltage drops).

 

ALSO there could be cable voltage drops or mechanical relay voltage drops which are causing the different voltages if the engine battery is placed in parallel with the coach batteries via your smart charger, but if there are small cables ran several feet between the coach and engine battery (plus some relays), that could explain the 14.4 versus 12.95 volt readings??????? Or a diode in the circuit would cause a 0.7 voltage drop.

 

Voltages after the charger has been on several hours may provide better information, but the fact that the engine battery reads 12.95 versus 12.6 tells me SOMETHING IS HAPPENING, the charger must be getting something to it somewhere??? cuz otherwise Id expect the engine battery to only read 12.6 once settled and stabilized.

 

John T coming to you live in the RV SW of Steubenville, Ohio where were volunteer work campers this week at a family church camp, its been fun but work.

[Clay L]

As Kirk said many/most? Fleetwood products do have a B.I.R.D system or something similar that does charge the engine battery when you are connected to shore power. It is not uncommon for the solenoid in the system to fail. I replaced one for a buddy. My buddy had a Fleetwood Flair . The BIRD system on his was in a black box on the passenger side firewall behind the hood.

 

There is info HERE . Scroll down to "Battery Systems".

[mscans]

The item that was installed from the factory for chassis charging is the TRIK-L-START and is found on:

 

Winnebago/Itasca Part No. 156431-01-000
Coach House Part No. ELC000231
Monaco Coach Part No. 262136
(NOTE: Item is identical for all brands)

 

As noted on the data sheet ( http://www.lslproducts.net/TLSPage.html ) for that part. As I stated earlier I had installed it on my 2005 Georgieboy and it worked well. A three wire installation and a couple of screws to mount the part itself.

 

Good luck with the "fix".

[coachmac9]

Dang, so sorry I didn't see this thread earlier Chuck. I have all the wiring and plumbing diagrams for that year model Fleetwood Discovery DP. Not sure if they would be exactly the same or not but give me a shout if you need any thing that might help in the future. Will be glad to send it along.

[chuckbear]

Dang, so sorry I didn't see this thread earlier Chuck. I have all the wiring and plumbing diagrams for that year model Fleetwood Discovery DP. Not sure if they would be exactly the same or not but give me a shout if you need any thing that might help in the future. Will be glad to send it along.

Thanks, I did get my hands on the wiring diagrams. The problem is the solenoid that allows the coach and engine battery to charge and also to parallel both if the engine battery goes down. But replacing that solenoid is not easy, so I haven't done it yet. To keep the engine battery charging, I have installed a Xantrex echo charger on the coach bank and that keeps the engine battery topped off when plugged in. Thanks for the offer. Chuck

[coachmac9]

glad you found the problem!

[Ronbo]

You may want to turn off the charger and wait an hour, then measure your voltage. The tune on a light so there is a small load and remeasure your voltage at the batteries. This will give your true voltage, not from the charger nor just surface voltage.

[chuckbear]

Thanks Ron. I have been a marine service technician for 40 years so I have a pretty good handle on battery charging. I'm just getting use to how these systems work and what is located where in our coach. Chuck

[Ray,IN]

Usually the engine battery is NOT connected to the charger. That is why they install the Trickle- Start. Winnebago is putting them on their RV's. I don't know if others are but for 50 bucks it solves the problem

Winnebago has been installing and using a BIRD relay in their DP's since 1999 that I know about, to charge both battery banks from the inverter/charger or the engine. Winnebago has online electrical schematics for their products if you have the time to study them.