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Another Hayes Brake Controller ?


alan0043

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Hi Everyone,

 

I am planning to change out my brake controller to a Hayes. On the etrailer web site they suggest a 20 amp circuit breaker with the part # 9506p. My question is. Is anyone using is that circuit breaker ? If not, what are you using ? Is there anything that I am missing ? I know what air line I need.

 

Thanks for any help,

Al

 

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The 20 amp circuit breaker will be more than enough to do the job. If your trailer has two axles, the most that can be applied is 12 amps as that is all that the magnets (3 amps each) will draw in a perfect environment. With all the connections and the length of wire, the amp draw will be closer to 11 to 11.5. The controller itself will draw very little current.

 

Mine arrives today, I hope. The old one is not doing a very good job. I want to see something besides a change in the brightness of the red indicator to know how much current my brakes are getting so I will add a 15 amp ampmeter in series with the blue wire. I bought one like this: http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Micro-Ammeter/dp/B000OTOPEE/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1431954287&sr=8-7&keywords=dc+amp+meter+0-15 but might switch to a digital meter. This will do two things for the system: 1) Let me adjust the amperage to the best output with no guessing. 2) Allow the system to monitor the brakes magnets and wiring to the trailer. Example: 1) I suddenly start seeing way more than 15 amps means the system has a short in it. The circuit breaker will likely open and then reset.

2) I can no longer get the maximum output with the override meaning I have lost a magnet, the wiring is bad, or maybe just a bad trailer connection.

 

Chet

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I really like the built-in amp meters, aside from doing your normal pull test at hitchup you can reach down and mash the manual brake control to confirm that each brake is drawing power. With just the pull test it is all too easy to miss a dead wheel or even axle.

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I used a type 1 maxi breaker Al. The Short Stops just aren't my thing. I mean, you are trying to keep your truck from burning down by putting a breaker in it in the first place, but then they give you a breaker with a big ol open battery side terminal? If anything touches that you aren't any farther ahead. Type 1 breakers are about worthless and are really worthless under the hood, but they are kind of a necessary evil with my MaxBrake so i didn't have much choice there. But y'alls non electronic controllers can probably use a polyswitch couldn't they? Polyswitches need the load removed in order to auto reset. So say you have a trailer wire problem, you step on the brakes, eventually the breaker cuts off your controller, you see it and let off the brake pedal. Letting off the pedal kills whatever was shorted and being a non electronic controller does it remove all load on the batt input (circuit breaker'd) wire too? If so then a 20A polyswitch and a mini fuse holder is what I'd use. If not, well then type 1 breaker it is. Carry spares. ;)

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Scrap,

 

I say this in all honesty. I love when you post cause I don't know half of what you are talking about from a technical standpoint. (No clue what a type 1 breaker vs. a polyswitch). It forces me to go to the Internet and look things up and that is how I learn and retain the information. Much better than being spoonfed. Please take this as a compliment and not a criticism.

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Hi Scrap,

 

Thank you for the input. The reason that I mention the 20amp circuit breaker is because etrailer suggested to use that part. I will do a search on the internet for the 20A polyswitch and the mini fuse holder. Electronics is not a strong suit for me. I always seem to need help in that area.

 

Thank you for the idea,

Al

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I have done a search looking for the 20a polyswitch that will fit into a mini fuse holder. So far I have had no luck in finding the 20a polyswitch. I have found polyswitches but they will not fit into a mini fuse holder. Is there another name for this polyswitch ?

 

Thanks for any help,

Al

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IMO, Polyswitches aren't really a good choice here. #1...they get HOT...thats how they open. #2...you have no indicator the brakes quit. Every time you step on the brakes, it opens...how you gonna notice? Do you look at your Maxbrake when you are braking down to a stop? I don't! I'm to busy watching the road. Then you let up, the Maxbrake comes back on and looks fine...

 

I prefer a trip type circuit breaker or good ole fashioned fuse...It blows...you notice your Maxbrake screen is dead on the next gauges scan.

 

We use these: http://www.waytekwire.com/item/46033/SEALED-ATO-ATOF-ATC-FUSE/ Best fuse holder out there. The terminals make much better contact than most. Then use a 20AMP ATO fuse or one of these: http://www.waytekwire.com/item/46796/CIRCUIT-BREAKER-20-AMP-YELLOW/ The cover might not fit, but that wont hurt anything inside the cab.

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IMO, Polyswitches aren't really a good choice here. #1...they get HOT...thats how they open. #2...you have no indicator the brakes quit. Every time you step on the brakes, it opens...how you gonna notice? Do you look at your Maxbrake when you are braking down to a stop? I don't! I'm to busy watching the road. Then you let up, the Maxbrake comes back on and looks fine...

 

I prefer a trip type circuit breaker or good ole fashioned fuse...It blows...you notice your Maxbrake screen is dead on the next gauges scan.

 

We use these: http://www.waytekwire.com/item/46033/SEALED-ATO-ATOF-ATC-FUSE/ Best fuse holder out there. The terminals make much better contact than most. Then use a 20AMP ATO fuse or one of these: http://www.waytekwire.com/item/46796/CIRCUIT-BREAKER-20-AMP-YELLOW/ The cover might not fit, but that wont hurt anything inside the cab.

 

Hi Jeff,

 

Sent you a P/M.

 

Al

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Sorry I've been behind on the forum but I do think this question was a good one to ask and a good one to have a conversation over. I don't really know the answer myself, but I suspect that "it depends". And I suspect that the blanket statement saying to use a breaker in both the instructions and the online sales site is a little too generic. Breakers have a bad habit of either eating up their contacts or welding themselves together when they are needed and tend to let you down at the worst of times. If you can get away with fusing it then that would be the way to go.

 

Now what they are after is to have something that resets so you don't lose your trailer brakes from an intermittent short. That makes sense, but what gave me heartburn with mine is that both my P3 and my MaxBrake already see that short before power is applied and cuts your brakes off anyways. So why do I gotta live with a breaker? Now you are just using it for source protection and I'd agree that a fuse is going to do better here. I guess the polyswitch isn't going to do much either as the MaxBrake wants 0.02A just to stay lit up. So it'll probably stay dead and won't have much benefit.

 

But say you have a controller that just sends power through as needed or on a programmed schedule. You've got your short and you've got your breaker on the source circuit. Assuming the controller just passes through the short current, now your breaker is going to cycle a few times until it finally gets itself heated up enough to trip. I'd assume this cycling is what they are after to get your attention and yet get you off the hill enough to get things figured out - if it works that way. That's not really the design intent of a breaker and the problem now is that you've got yourself a used breaker that is going to be unreliable as hell, and I guarantee it'll cause you more brake loss troubles down the road than than your one bad day if you had a fuse. So you'll pretty much end up replacing the breaker like a fuse anyways. So I guess the question is does the Hayes work this way? What's it do with a short on the blue wire? Draw 20A from its batt source on brake application? Then completely drop load upon release? I think we need to fry it on the bench before you even get it in your truck. ;) It is all in the name of science. <_<

 

Or am I all wet on why they want a breaker installed on the batt source? Anyone else know?

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Chet: Interesting idea. Warning lights are always good. Maybe Henry could incorporate this into the Jackie with a "indicator wire" to run to a dash light! One other thought...if your fuse was where it can be seen (which they NEVER are) you could use one of those fuses with a built in LED "blown" indicator.

 

Scrap: most likely the "Breaker" is just because "it will reset and you don't have to replace a fuse". Not too over-thought. I'm sure the lawyers had some say as well "We tried to make it auto resetting to make SURE you had brakes." Reality is different, as you pointed out.

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