Super 10

[tyates007]

We are looking at changing trucks. My current truck has a straight 10 that has been very easy to drive. I am now looking at a T2000 that has a super 10. Any opinions on the transmission would be appreciated. It was replaced less than 100k ago.

[Deezl Smoke]

It's fine. It'll do all you want it to. It just takes some getting used to. In some cases, it may even fit one's style better. For me, it really does not matter what transmission as long as I like the truck. But a super 10 for me, with light loads and bob tailing, is for the most part just 2 low thru 5 low then 5 high and done with it. Some what similar in nature to an old 4 or 5 speed box with a 2 speed axle.

[maveric]

^{It is just an odd shift pattern. Instead of 1-5L, then 1-5H, you have to go into each hole twice. Once you figure it out, it is simple. If your Super10 happens to have the "top 2" option, when cruise is turned on, the truck will automatically shift between 9-10. Kinda handy sometimes, like when your learning to drive it while hauling heavy on a steep hill. Don't have to worry about missing that shift...}

[hdonlybob]

I had one in my Volvo 610, and in my opinion it is the best trans available for our type of towing. (other than perhaps an auto)

I float shifted every gear, and you only move the gear lever 1/2 as many times as a straight ten.

Wonderful transmission.

Good luck,

Cheers,

Bob

[tyates007]

Thanks for the replies.

[Dennis M]

I had one in my Volvo 610, and in my opinion it is the best trans available for our type of towing. (other than perhaps an auto)

I float shifted every gear, and you only move the gear lever 1/2 as many times as a straight ten.

Wonderful transmission.

Good luck,

Cheers,

Bob

 

Same here, I love the Super 10, although I have never driven anything else in an HDT so I have no reference for comparison.

 

It is easy to use, start with clutch and then float shift up and down, a snap to get used to and 3-400 RPM between shifts. I have geared down in traffic jams and floated between 1-2-3 for as much as an hour, hardly ever touching the brake or clutch.

 

I usually start in 3rd on the flat. There is a high/low thumb switch on the gear lever, so it goes like this:

start in 3rd, switch to 4;

lever & switch to 5;

switch to 6;

lever and switch to 7;

switch to 8;

lever and switch to 9;

switch to 10.

 

Sounds a lot more complicated than it is!

[tyates007]

Appreciate all the replies. I will be test driving truck next Saturday. Sounds like a pretty sweet transmission for our application.

[the sailor]

I have the same thing on my truck, never drove a HDT before, not hard to learn, just have to get the RPM right , that for me was the hardest part, now use the clutch only stopping & starting . You will love it, good luck !

[SunJuniper]

if you do alot of driving out west or where its hilly , a 13 speed would be better. i know people that have the 10 speed that wish they had the half steps

that the 13 speed has.

[Jack Mayer]

I agree with lou10...I also like the 13 speed. Not that I would want ANY manual in a recreational hauler...but each to their own. I'd rate my preference in manuals as: 13 spd, Super 10/Top 2, Super 10, then any of the ones that have high/low separated across the throw range....eg. run through all the gears, then split the range. I will say, though, that some people HATE the Super 10.

 

I'd rate my preference in non-manuals as: IShift, a newer Ultra Plus, Ultra, Autoshift of any vintage. Then a Freedomline if I had to have it. ONLY because it is no longer used in North America. It was a good transmission, but eventually there will be issues with service. Not so much right now, though.

[bigg-limo]

I agree with lou10...I also like the 13 speed. Not that I would want ANY manual in a recreational hauler...but each to their own. I'd rate my preference in manuals as: 13 spd, Super 10/Top 2, Super 10, then any of the ones that have high/low separated across the throw range....eg. run through all the gears, then split the range. I will say, though, that some people HATE the Super 10.

 

I'd rate my preference in non-manuals as: IShift, a newer Ultra Plus, Ultra, Autoshift of any vintage. Then a Freedomline if I had to have it. ONLY because it is no longer used in North America. It was a good transmission, but eventually there will be issues with service. Not so much right now, though.

Jack, where would an 18 speed fit into your preference, lol? I'm just kidding. I agree with lou10 also. The ability to split a half a gear up or down, does have an advantage of towing up and down the mountains.

[SunJuniper]

Jack, where would an 18 speed fit into your preference, lol? I'm just kidding. I agree with lou10 also. The ability to split a half a gear up or down, does have an advantage of towing up and down the mountains.

no real difference between the 13 and 18 other than you can split the low side of the gearbox also.

and none of us haul that heavy to need those kinda splits on the low side of the gear box.

 

i suspect the internals of the 13 and 18 are the same except for the shifter knob which blocks the split on the low side of the gearbox

[bigg-limo]

no real difference between the 13 and 18 other than you can split the low side of the gearbox also.

and none of us haul that heavy to need those kinda splits on the low side of the gear box.

 

i suspect the internals of the 13 and 18 are the same except for the shifter knob which blocks the split on the low side of the gearbox

You're absolutely correct. What's funny, is in normal towing, I only need 6 gears to tow with. Leave the splitter in Hi,...start in 3rd, and that's all you need.

[SunJuniper]

You're absolutely correct. What's funny, is in normal towing, I only need 6 gears to tow with. Leave the splitter in Hi,...start in 3rd, and that's all you need.

i usually start in 3rd as well. once on the high side of the gearbox i switch the split to the High side as well and stay their unless

i need that half split climbing a hill from 4 wheelers or a bunch of slow pokes in both lanes.

 

just now noticed your in the same position i am. 18speed. NEVER have used the split on the low side of the gearbox.

[Deezl Smoke]

With modern hp, I just cant imagine how large of rv and toad it would take to actually require a 13 speed. But then, I am a new comer so........ But the torque curves of any modern truck engine are about as good as they can be. If you only "need" a 13 speed split once every few years, it really should'nt be a deal breaker on a truck purchase IMO. A 25k load is less than a 10 wheel dump truck hauls with a load of gravel.

 

Here's a link just to but one Cummins engine config. It may take some getting used to, but pulling down to 1,200 or even 1,000 rpm is where the fun starts.

 

IMO.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

With our old fashion 10 speed, I start in 3-4, and float up to 10 on open road when towing. Bobtailing around town, it's nice to have 2-3 when creeping up on lights, never shift into 10 unless the speed gets over 45 or so. So far the only uphill downshifting was when someone pulled in front of us and slowed down. When the RPM's drop to 1000 or so, the engine starts lugging. Have low 1st is nice on a bumpy campground road.

[jkennell]

I have two similar trucks,one with a S-10, the other a straight 9 speed. Either one is easy to use--once you get used to it! (Of course, I float shifted the old 4+2 grain trucks as well...) The problem is switching back and forth! Forget for a second you are driving the straight, flip the switch and .... embarrassment at the local grain elevator!

 

I think the timing is just a bit different on the S-10...which is why some people hate it. I find I have to "think" a bit until I get the feel of it. Then it can be silk smooth and easy to use. LIke others said...I usually only split the top gear (3-5-7-9-10) unless I'm on a hill, in which case I may add 8.

[marvmarcy]

I'm content with my S10, but never felt comfortable dropping rpm below 1100 - seemed like it was working harder (but no smoke). My only wish would be another gear between 9 and 10. The .74 od seems too far above 9th gear.

[Bob Cochran]

I'm content with my S10, but never felt comfortable dropping rpm below 1100 - seemed like it was working harder (but no smoke). My only wish would be another gear between 9 and 10. The .74 od seems too far above 9th gear.

Boy I have to agree with your statement.

[Jack Mayer]

I'm content with my S10, but never felt comfortable dropping rpm below 1100 - seemed like it was working harder (but no smoke). My only wish would be another gear between 9 and 10. The .74 od seems too far above 9th gear.

You just need more torque, Marv

[hdonlybob]

I never dropped below 1100 rpm.. usually shifted at ~1200 and ran to ~1800...but mine was a Cummins N14.

I really don't think you should be running at 1100 rpm under load. Of course JMHO.

 

Also one other comment on the Super 10 trans.

There is more than one way to shift a Super 10.

My only complaint when I first got mine was that when taking off going up a hill (more pronounced on a steep hill) fully loaded, the rpm drop, plus the lag waiting for the button shift to take place was not really adequate...you had to rev up above 2200 rpm to make a decent shift and still have bottom end torque to continue up the hill.

Solution is very simple, and I learned this from a fellow on this forum.

Take off in 3rd gear.

Switch button for 4th gear, pull to neutral, and immediately shove it right back in the same hole. It will shift almost instantly, with NO grinding or damage to the trans.

Next shift with the shifter into 5th gear normally.

Switch button to 6th gear, and do the same.. pull it into neutral and immediately shove it right back in the same hole ..

Works fantastic, and I did this for several years...

Only note is that as you go up into the higher gears, using this method, you need to start pausing very briefly before shoving it back in the same hole....

On occasion I used this for the first few gears when not on a hill, going slowly thru construction or around corners, as it makes a real smooth shift...a lot smother than the button set up.

Those of you that have Super 10's should try it....it will seem a bit scary the first few times you do, but you will really like it a lot when you start out going up those steep grades from a stop.

 

Another way is to use the Jake Brake....this takes a lot more talent, and while it works just fine, is not forgiving...I did not like this way, but many use it...It does work best if you have a three stage Jake, and use the third stage for this type of shifting.

NOTE: Both of these I did float shifting.. No clutch.

 

Cheers,

Bob

[noteven]

_{https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xa1pdRl5Qs}

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5YRbMS4a9M

 

Parts 1 & 2 , not sure how I got a video for one and a link for the other :o I can drive onea these big trucks but I can't run a forum post

 

Operating the Super 10 speed video from Eaton Corp.

[Deezl Smoke]

I know the feeling that many have about running such low rpm. However, it is actually proper operation of the modern engines. I say modern as when I starting driving truck and trailer, I was...................not of legal age yet. I would haul hay to central oregon and cattle or grain back in a 1962 KW with a 280 Cummins and a 5+4 transmission. Center point steering no less. Those cummins engines of that era and the Detroit 2 cycles were the dominant engines. Cat had a small foot in the game, but was still finding out how to make a truck engine out of a dozer. The engines then, would pull near equally up tot he governed rpm of about 2300.

 

Later, Cummins come out with the designation "Big Cam", and Detroit started putting their "Series 60" four cycle engine out on the road. The Cummins new engine was a completely new experience for the otr drivers. By the big cam 3 and 4 designation, the engine would literally fall on it's face above about 1800 rpm. It just flat out quit pulling. Took a long time to retrain how to shift and how to pull a hill.

 

Some 30 years ago when I was on the local vfd, we had a new pumper show up. It had a Caterpillar 3406, I think it was the initial offering the B designation. Cat sent a tech out to give us lessons in the proper usage of the new Cat engine. Cat had developed these engines around very low rpms. They knew it would take some time to relearn the opposite of what we all had been taught up until then about engine "lugging". The new engines ran better at rpms below what the older engines were considered to be damaging by lugging. Cat wanted us to run as consistent as possible to 1200rpm.

 

Today 1200 is even starting to become a high rpm engine torque peak. Believe it or not, it does not hurt the engine to run continuous at it's torque peak. Many manufacturers prefer it. They have designed the engines today to run so well at such low rpm, many no longer even put an egt gauge in the cab. They let the computer take care of managing those things.

 

IMO.

[Deezl Smoke]

_{https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xa1pdRl5Qs}

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5YRbMS4a9M

 

Parts 1 & 2 , not sure how I got a video for one and a link for the other :o I can drive onea these big trucks but I can't run a forum post

 

Operating the Super 10 speed video from Eaton Corp.

 

Great find Noteven. Thanks.